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"need" and RI non-res permit?

Discussion in 'Rhode Island Laws' started by 1911luver, Jul 14, 2009.

  1. 1911luver

    1911luver

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    I was wanting to apply for a RI nonresident carry permit and was wondering what is considered "a proper showing of need" for said permit? If one has a C&R FFL and is a gun collector is this considered a reason to be issued a carry permit in RI? is there anyone here who has a C&R FFL who has applied for and received an RI nonresident carry permit?
     
  2. Knuckle Dragger

    Knuckle Dragger NES Member

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    I'll let you know in a couple of months, I'm working on my RI non-res application right now. Although I have a C&R, that's not my primary 'showing of need'.

    There's a good post here: http://forum.cralri.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=92 that indicates a 2004 RI Supreme Court case (Mosby v Devine) has determined that being a firearms collector constitutes a 'proper reason'.

    Consider also retaining the services of Keith Langer. He's a Mass attorney experienced in firearms law and is also a member of the RI bar.
     
  3. M1911

    M1911 Moderator NES Member

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    I doubt it. Why would being a collector result in you being more of a target for crime than the average joe?

    I know one fellow who had a RI non-res permit. He sold high-end music equipment to nightclubs, and had to visit them in the evenings, sometimes very late. He carried large amounts of cash and expensive equipment. He had been attacked in the past, bad enough to require hospitalization, and could document that fact.
     
  4. Carnea

    Carnea

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    A person with a C&R FFL could be targeted due to the high possibility of having "collectable" firerms that are worth a lot of money. Also, travelling to/from gun shows with firearm collections and/or a lot of cash. Sounds like a reason to be armed to protect your firearm collection and cash.
     
  5. newportri

    newportri

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    Having a C&R license is a reason for getting a CCW in RI. However, it is not because you of the value of the firearms and cash, but because the strict RI firearm's act would not allow you to legally transport C&R firearms you had legally bought if you did NOT buy them from a dealer. The only exceptions to the ban on being in possession of a firearm outside your home, business, bona fide range is when you travel between these. There is also exceptions when traveling to/from dealers and the statute was also changed so that you could legally take your gun to a police station for a gun buyback (Providence have had a few of them).
    You can read the RI Firearms act for more info (RIGL 11-47).

    The RI Supreme court says in the Mosby case (Mosby vs. Devine (RI Supreme Court, 2001) that having a C&R license is a reason to be licensed.
    There is a link to the court's opinion here http://www.rifol.org/litigation.php
     
  6. bostonasphalt2

    bostonasphalt2

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    think outside the box. Valuable firearms, large sums of cash, etc....
     
  7. M1911

    M1911 Moderator NES Member

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    Holy necroposting, Batman!
     
  8. Zepp

    Zepp

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    West texas...hahahahahah ;)
    I have the same issue (live in Taunton (puke) work In Pawtucket/cf late at night at that bridge construction snafu ...

    Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
     
  9. NRAInstructor

    NRAInstructor

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    I've had my unrestricted pistol permit in RI since 96, and I've qualified plenty of people for theirs. I can tell you this: Unlike MA, your state of residence does NOT matter. The only difference between being a resident and a non-resident is that you are required to submit a copy of your home-state permit with the application. Everything else is the same. Few points I'd like to make to help you out with this:

    1. You MUST appear in person to pick up your permit. They do not mail them out.
    2. It takes about 90 days for them to process your first permit, sometimes longer. If you have an incorrect or incomplete application, it will take even longer.
    3. Don't attempt to get a permit from a local PD. That's for residents only, and even then most PD's will turn you down.
    4. Unless you have an iron-clad reason, expect your first permit or two to be restricted. You need to prove your worth to the AG before they'll give you a permit with "None" printed on the back.
    5. Be careful what gun you qualify with. Regardless of actual power, size matters in RI. You may only carry the caliber you qualify with or smaller. That means if you qualify with a .44 magnum, you cannot carry a .45 ACP, even though the .44 is significantly more powerful. On the other hand, if you qualify with a .45, you can carry a .45 or a .44
    6. Unlike Mass, the pistol permit is ONLY for carrying, and not for purchasing. You cannot purchase guns in RI if you are a non-resident. Well, you CAN, but they have to ship them to a dealer in MA, and the gun still needs to be Mass. compliant. If you ARE a resident, you need a blue card (issued by DEM) to purchase a handgun. The two cards are NOT interchangeable.
    7. I think this goes without saying, but just in case, your MA LTC is NOT good in RI. You need a RI permit to carry a firearm in Rhode Island.
    8. You must notify the AG within 7 days if you change your name or address. They'll want to reprint your permit, and it will cost you $5 to do so. You'll also have to send them another 1x1 picture or two.
    9. An NRA instructor or police range instructor can qualify you. There is no safety course requirement (though I'd recommend it), but rather a live-fire qualification. It's 25 yards, using Army-L type targets. You shoot three rounds of 10 shots. You have 10 minutes to shoot each round of 10 shots. The maximum possible score is 300, and the minimum passing score is 190. (3 sets of 10 shots = 30 shots, highest score on the target is a 10-point bullseye). You may shoot one or two handed, and you may take breaks (as long as the instructor will allow) between sets. Most qualifying instructors will have a range that you can qualify at, but will likely insist that you bring your own firearm, ammo, and safety equipment. Very few instructors will rent or loan their guns out to qualifying students.
    10. The qualifying instructor has EVERY RIGHT to refuse to qualify you if you show that you are not responsible or safe with a firearm, and no, there is nothing you can do about it.
    11. The fee is $40 for 4 years. The AG only takes checks or money orders, don't show up with cash. Payment is required when you submit your application, but the check isn't cashed unless your permit is approved and you pick it up. Bounced checks = suspended permits.
    12. The Attorney General is located at 150 South Main Street in Providence. You do not need an appointment to drop your application off. The BCI (Bureau of Criminal Identification) office processes applications. The phone number is 401-274-4400.
    13. The application is located here: http://www.riag.ri.gov/bci/forms.php

    Any questions, I'll be glad to help you!
     
    2 people like this.
  10. JFR2

    JFR2 Army Veteran

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    That post should be a sticky in the RI Law sub forum.

    -JR
     
  11. Knuckle Dragger

    Knuckle Dragger NES Member

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    Great write up and lots of useful information. I'm going to split hairs on just a couple points. (And yes, these are small points)

    2. - my AG permit was ready in about 40 days. This was a couple of years ago, perhaps it's changed, but that's also the expectation they set for me.

    3. - PD can be issued to non-residents, again, like the AG permit there is no distinction. Very few chiefs will issue a permit to a non-resident, but I do know of one or two. More and more RI towns are issueing town permits, even Providence will issue now, but they charge something like $200 for the application.

    7. - Trivial, I know, but you can drive through RI from one MA point to another MA point while carrying if you've got an LTC.
    Agreed, this is the best RI write up we have.
     
  12. NRAInstructor

    NRAInstructor

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    Thanks for clearing those up, Knuck! I've heard of the 30-40 day turnover time before, but they still print 90 days on their applications, and I'd rather tell you it's 90 and have you be pleasantly surprised to get it in 40, than vice versa. It depends entirely on the sitting General. In Lynch & Whitehouse days, you'd be lucky to get the letter on day 89.... lol

    Yes, PD's can issue to non-residents (thank you for pointing that out, I was wrong about that... I generally recommend people go to the AG anyway) But still, it's good to know. That's an outrageous fee.

    I knew you could transport through (via peaceable journey) but I'm pretty sure the gun has to be unloaded, locked in the trunk, separate from the ammo, etc. I could be wrong about that, though. Still, when I run quals & courses, I tell people to transport unloaded & locked without a permit in RI... just to be on the safe side. I'm going to make some calls to some cop-buddies of mine in RI and verify this... I'll report back later.

    And thanks to both of you for the honor of suggesting that my post be stickied ;)

    Again, if anyone needs help getting a RIPP, please do not hesitate to contact me!!
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2012
  13. Len-2A Training

    Len-2A Training Instructor Instructor NES Life Member NES Member

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    Yes, you can CCW as long as you are going THRU RI with no intent to stop. I have it in writing from BCI. It was the answer sent to me . . . although it did NOT answer the question that I asked them. [thinking]
     
  14. NRAInstructor

    NRAInstructor

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    Thanks, LenS! God help you if you break down or have to use your firearm defensively, though :\

    OK I gotta ask, what WAS the question you asked them?? lol
     
  15. JFR2

    JFR2 Army Veteran

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    Is there a Duty to Notify during a traffic stop in RI?

    -JR
     
  16. Len-2A Training

    Len-2A Training Instructor Instructor NES Life Member NES Member

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    Question was as follows:

    - Park off-site (US-1) and fly (FL was destination),
    - Upon return ~11PM, have gun in luggage in car, can we legally stop to eat "dinner" (airplane food non-existent) in RI on way home to MA w/o a RI PP?

    Never did get an answer, just what I related above, which I've taken advantage of when serving papers in Seekonk and environs.


    BTW: Above was in 2003 and instead (due to no answer) I chose to leave the gun at home, in spite of having a FL PP.
     
  17. NRAInstructor

    NRAInstructor

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    The law does not mention a requirement to notify, but I recommend that you do.

    I'd say no to that one... But that's definitely a grey question.
     
  18. Len-2A Training

    Len-2A Training Instructor Instructor NES Life Member NES Member

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    BTW: The question was wrt strictly having a locked up, unloaded handgun in the trunk . . . just the way it came off the plane.
     
  19. NRAInstructor

    NRAInstructor

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    If the gun is securely locked, then I'd say go for it :)
     
  20. ARV

    ARV

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    The bold part is factually untrue.


    By the letter of the law, they are REQUIRED to give you a license if you are a US resident with a license in any other state. If they follow the law or not is another matter entirely.
     
  21. NRAInstructor

    NRAInstructor

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    Yes, we already covered that and I already admitted I was wrong about that... but like you said, they have problems following their own laws.
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. n1bsbri

    n1bsbri NES Member

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    Good write-up. One minor quibble:

    Per RIGL § 11-47-15 - that qualification to consist of firing a score of 195 or better out of a possible score of 300
     
  23. ARV

    ARV

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    I didn't read the rest of the thread, I just stopped and looked up 11-47-11. Ive been told so many times that ONLY residents are allowed to get town permits that I hear it and I just start [banghead]
     
  24. Rob Boudrie

    Rob Boudrie NES Member

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    I've had mine since 92.

    You are allowed to carry (in the real, on your person sense of the word) on an out of state permit as long as it is not your intent to detain or delay yourself while in Rhode Island. I do not know how well this is understood by RI law enforcement and, as with any comments about the law on NES, do not consider it legal advice and confirm this yourself if you are actually going to do this.

    Sure there is :). Go to another instructor. The is no report sent to RI that you failed, so just take the test from someone else.

    I once did a "mass qualification" of 20 students at the end of a UT course a guest instructor did at my club. These were allegedly experienced shooters. I say "allegedly" since only 4 managed to pass. Everyone handled the guns safely, but just couldn't keep hits on target. The Army L target is HUGE, and rarely seen in shops (they have them at AFS in Attleboro).

    The last few times I applied, the procedure was to send no money with the application and to pay when picking up the permit.

    They accept applications by mail as well, but do indeed require in-person pickup.

    Other trivia:

    - The application requires "local signoff". The BCI will accept the licensing officer in your town as long as (s)he lists his/her title and badge number with the signature.

    - The letter gives a short timeframe for pickup (I think it's two weeks). The BCI told me they would hold a license for a longer period of time imf requested by the applicant.

    - There is a dedicated service window in the lobby, pain in the ass parking, and no access to restrooms. The staff who issues the actual license is very polite and professional, and pickup only takes a few minutes. Yes, that huge rack of manila folders you see on the far wall is the AG issued carry permit files.

    - Check the info on your license. I once had to reject one and have it re-issued since they put the wrong state on my address.

    - I can do RI qualifications at Hopkinton Sportsmens by appointment for a $10 donation to the club (check to HSA). Having the club collect a fee means I am doing this action on behalf of the club, and thus am covered by their insurance :).

    This is actually good advice, since the record of LE in general (nothing specific to RI) being fully cognizant as to the subtle nuances of gun laws is less than stellar - the biggest example in MA being the near complete ignorance on the "one ones person" clause in the ban on carry on school property.

    I would suggest you get familiar with the exact wording regarding this particular clause of RSA 11-47 so that you maintain credibility with your students as to complete accuracy ... but still advise them that doing so could bring some risk.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2012
  25. customcreationsllc

    customcreationsllc

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    A couple questions.
    I've had my CT permit for 9 years and my Utah for 3 years.
    I'm from CT I have family in RI, I would like to be able to protect both myself and my family (wife and 2 little kids) when I travel to RI
    Is that enough reason for a RI permit? I think so but does RI? I'll word it a little better but anything I should add?


    Where can I qualify? CT or only RI who and what do I ask for. Is it normal to call around for an NRA Instructor to qualify for RI. Do we send in the targets or just the Score and NRA signature?

    Thank you
    ~Justin
     
  26. n1bsbri

    n1bsbri NES Member

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    I'm not going to comment on the first part of your question, because honestly I don't know much about how the AG handles non-resident permits.

    As far as qualifying, here's the statute, and my comments below:

    Boiled down, this means any NRA pistol instructor can perform the qualification. They do not have to be a RI resident, you can do the qualification anywhere. They just have to follow the instructions in the statute, and sign the certification which is part of the application packet from the AG. http://www.riag.ri.gov/documents/bci/pistols.pdf
     
  27. Sergeis64

    Sergeis64

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    How do people manage to fail on L shape target is beyond me... It is Humongous! I qualified with my Glock 30 45ACP with 279 out of 300, shooting my gun 3rd time- ever. And I am by far NOT a great shot...
     
  28. n1bsbri

    n1bsbri NES Member

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    I've read stories of NES car shoots where people can't hit a SUV (or even the berm) at 25 yards. [rofl]
     

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