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Natick Mall Firearms K9

ReluctantDecoy said:
WTF is the intent behind those signs? The mall wants people to feel safe, and what do you do? Put up signs that only plant the notion that violence involving fire arms is never a zero percent chance possibility? They probably weren't thinking about it without the signs, but are now thinking about it after seeing this sign. That means these patrols are protecting the public from the sign itself more than any credible threat..
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QFTMFT
 
That's what I've been told as well. For a while they were swabbing computers and CPAP machines because they had "intel" that terrorists were planning to place explosives in them.

My wife figured that the terrorists planted these stories to root out moles in their operations AND to laugh at the stoopid American infidels.

M1911 said:
Airports run several types of screeners - the metal detector, the millimeter wave scanner won’t detect spent powder. On a couple occasions, I’ve had them swab some of my carryons and put the swab in an explosive detector. it is my understanding that this won’t detect spent powder because it isn’t an explosive.
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chris_1001 said:
That started to get painful and I pulled the cord halfway through. When he pulled out his Mark 23.

Obvious troll, is obvious lol.
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This looked like a shortened version (or I skimmed too quickly) as there was not reference to the martial art of Greenoch or breeching castle walls.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
This looked like a shortened version (or I skimmed too quickly) as there was not reference to the martial art of Greenoch or breeching castle walls.
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Ninja master. And he was breaching the woman’s room with his mk 23 looking for a fecies spreader.

I tapped out. Surprised I lasted that long.
 
HarryPottar said:
Unrelated to the Mall, but related because someone mentioned gun powder residue.
Back in the old days of freedom and unrestricted travel, precovid, I traveled a lot.

I was on an early flight one Monday morning, going out of Logan to Germany.
I had spent the previous night reloading, I had been on the Dillion 650 and hand loaded some 308.

I was randomly flagged for the finger swab, I asked what it looked for.

"Highly sensitive device, it can detect if you been near explosive or gun power in the last 48 hours"

[rofl]Needless to say, but I was heading to the gate a few moments later.

So as long a bad guy doesn't shower or wash their hands, we safe.
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Mrs Appraiser was flying to FL one weekend when I was already here

She calls me and tells me not to be away from my phone just in case.... in case of what I ask

She had been working in the explosives area of her company all morning, and she was covered head to toe in minute quantities of whatever they worked with.... to this day she can't tell me.

She was concerned that if she got the full treatment at TSA it would be an issue.... boy if she had been swabbed it might have set the record for PPM of high grade explosives... I told her to carry a copy of her BATFE Explosives License and have corporate security on speed dial to explain if she got stopped
 
Rob Boudrie said:
It's all theater, and liability.

I doubt you could even contingency fee counsel to take your case if you were killed or injured because a mall had a no gun policy. There was one case where a licensed gun carrier intervened in a jewelry store robbery and an innocent killed. The family sued the mall for not having "no guns" signs posted. There is another case where Krogers was sued by the family of someone killed by a criminal who obviously would not have entered with a gun.

Simon Properties thanked Eli Dicken after his heroic performance in food court follies, even though it had a no gun policy ..... and has not (as far as I know) repealed that policy.

I would not be surprised if those doggies are on duty as part of some promotional or introductory pricing to "get the word out" about the company providing the service. They are getting national coverage and it may get to be part of a push to make this a new normal, perhaps to the point where shootees will start suing malls that do not rent the dogs.
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moojpg2 said:
If they operate like any big box store loss prevention/security, which I know that they do because I worked in loss prevention on multiple levels and in several large stores attached to malls, they wont tell anyone that the dog alerted on you, they will hang back and radio someone in their camera room to follow you around on their cameras while they wait for PD to arrive then they will join up with PD and have them confront you for them. Mall security and store LP agents don't do hands on security or confront anyone anymore unless absolutely necessary.

If the dog walks up to you from behind or you think it alerts on you, you probably won't be confronted, but your best bet, if your carrying, is to leave mall property if it does because you will be greeted by a police officer shortly after. Also, huge news flash but no mall or retail security agent has to physically follow you to your car to see your license plate or the car that you get into. I can personally attest to the fact that even the cameras at the, all but abandoned and outdated, Eastfield Mall can read plates and ID people across the street at McDonald's, and Chicopee Wal-Mart AP can watch people all the way across the shopping center at Home Depot and read plates and ID people over there and all the way out to Memorial Drive where they can see it. Some of the newer stores have 4k PTZ cameras with 20x optical zoom and digital zoom on top of it, and now lots of them also have the parking lot security trailers with extra cameras on masts that have people watching the parking lot full time. Even the stanley sliding doors at the entrances to most places get you on about 8 different camera views in the entrance vestibules on your way in & out. There is almost nowhere in any shopping mall you can't be seen and ID'd on camera at any given time.

I have personally had to deal with working in stores and on properties that have "no weapons" policies and have had to deal with people obviously carrying weapons that patrons of the store noticed and complained about or people obviously stealing or up to no good that had weapons, we never confronted them without police at our side, and often we would wait for them to go outside and the police would confront them outside on the sidewalk. Most people working in security are going to be pro gun or aspiring to be police officers, they aren't going to be worried about the average dude walking with his family that's concealed carrying that prints a bit, they are looking for ghetto goblins and bangers with extended mags poking out of their sweatpants and other stupid shit. Under no circumstances would we ever confront or attempt to stop a shoplifter or someone visibly carrying a weapon, we had to call PD and let them handle it, and that's including having the PD help us serve the person with a no-trespass notice.

If you want to steal from any big box store, openly carry a large straight knife while wearing a covid mask and get in and out before the PD can get there and your all set, leave the store on foot and get picked up out of sight and never come back. LP won't touch it with a ten foot pole because of the visible knife and the PD won't bother unless your making a career out of it or it's a huge dollar amount.
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Da_lucche said:
Don't they have to have actual suspicion of a crime first for they can ask for ID?
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How would they know I have a gun if they can't confirm it.
If they ask I wont say and will ignore and keep shopping.

If they bring in a real cop - I'll ask if I'm being detained. If not ignore and keep shopping.

Can they trespass me if they can't show I violated a rule???

Garys said:
That's what I've been told as well. For a while they were swabbing computers and CPAP machines because they had "intel" that terrorists were planning to place explosives in them.

My wife figured that the terrorists planted these stories to root out moles in their operations AND to laugh at the stoopid American infidels.
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When I fly the swab my CPAP.

I don't mind them cleaning out a bunch of stale boogers.
 
Reptile said:
How would they know I have a gun if they can't confirm it.
If they ask I wont say and will ignore and keep shopping.

If they bring in a real cop - I'll ask if I'm being detained. If not ignore and keep shopping.

Can they trespass me if they can't show I violated a rule???


When I fly the swab my CPAP.

I don't mind them cleaning out a bunch of stale boogers.
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Private Property, they can trespass you for any reason.
 
Bt74 said:
Private Property, they can trespass you for any reason.
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Incorrect. They cannot trespass you for the obvious racial/ethnic reasons, and probably can't trespass you for wearing a headcovering of your faith. The question is not "is there a line?" but "Where is the line drawn?".
 
Private property, but with licenses for food, beverage, to operate as a _________ (fill in the blank), etc that require them to sell to the public without regard to ( insert protected class here).

Ask any golf club public or private with an all alcoholic beverages or beer & wine license what happens when they treat women different than men with regard to tee times, facilities, etc etc etc. It may be private property but the licenses can be sanctioned for any hint of lack of equal treatment
 
appraiser said:
She had been working in the explosives area of her company all morning, and she was covered head to toe in minute quantities of whatever they worked with.... to this day she can't tell me.

She was concerned that if she got the full treatment at TSA it would be an issue.... boy if she had been swabbed it might have set the record for PPM of high grade explosives... I told her to carry a copy of her BATFE Explosives License and have corporate security on speed dial to explain if she got stopped
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A co-worker of mine (Boston based) used to manage a project at the Aerojet plant in CA, so he spent a lot of time shutting across the country. He was constantly contaminated with nitrates on his way home, to the point that the TSA screeners were recognizing him and calling him by first name.
 
A lot of those TSA explosive swab machines give false positive results from hand and body lotions as well. Some type of ingredient that reads as an explosive residue.
 
FancyGunz said:
So, has anyone tested this out yet?
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What, Ignoring the weapons signs? All the time. Even in the post office. Don’t pay no never mind to them.
They can only ask you to leave and then you comply.
By law you must be served a no trespass order. That’s the notice you sit up in your chair and pay attention to.
 
Asaltweapon said:
What, Ignoring the weapons signs? All the time. Even in the post office. Don’t pay no never mind to them.
They can only ask you to leave and then you comply.
By law you must be served a no trespass order. That’s the notice you sit up in your chair and pay attention to.
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True with regard to private property, but not true of the Post Office.

And as to private property and security - always be polite and non-violent, but remember, you are under no legal obligation to identify yourself to persons without LEO powers, and they do not have the authority to detain you for lawful activity even if it violates their rules.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
True with regard to private property, but not true of the Post Office.

And as to private property and security - always be polite and non-violent, but remember, you are under no legal obligation to identify yourself to persons without LEO powers, and they do not have the authority to detain you for lawful activity even if it violates their rules.
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Yes I know that about the PO and didn’t care.
 
Asaltweapon said:
What, Ignoring the weapons signs? All the time. Even in the post office. Don’t pay no never mind to them.
They can only ask you to leave and then you comply.
By law you must be served a no trespass order. That’s the notice you sit up in your chair and pay attention to.
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I meant testing the sensitivity / validating the existence of the K9s.
 
If a MA LEO stops me and asks if I’m carrying am I legally obiligated to answer the question? If they search me and find my firearm do I have to produce my actual LTC or can I just provide a receipt for fees paid per 129.c? Not sure if that wording only applies to FID cards because chapter 131 says the two are alike.
 

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