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I find it hard to believe any basic mouth breathing security company would send a minimum wage worker to Texas for 6 months and pay tens of thousands of dollars to train him or her and a new dog. That’s just not happening for mall security. Maybe for a nuke site or something, but not for Auntie Annie’s Pretzels.The first thing to ask if you are approached by one of these handlers is "are you a sworn police officer?". That will enable you to make an intelligent decision about how you interact - for example, it is not a crime to refuse to identify yourself, verbally or via paperwork, when a citizen with no LE authority demands you do so.
Add to NES boycott list.
Open carry food courtScrew that, NES meet and greet at Natick Mall.
Suggested plan if approached:
I think there is a independent (not-LE) company trying to sell this service to shopping malls all over the country.
- First ask "Are you sworn LE?". If so, request they show your their police ID card. If they are non-police, continue as follows...
- Say "Nice dog" or "Good boy".
- Turn on your cell phone to record the interaction. Notify the other party you are doing so. Do not obey any order (that they have no authority to give) to turn it off. Remember, MA law requires "non-surreptitious", not "two party consent" for audio recording (and not even that to record police thanks to the first circuit)
- If they ask tell them "I will not discuss my security procedures with you" or consider "no" if that's the case
- Do not give them your name. Politely inform them that as private citizens, you are under no obligation to identify yourself to them, and they do not have police authority.
- If they imply you cannot leave, ask if you are free to leave. If they say "no", ask "what crime are you accusing me of?"
- If they tell you to leave and escort you out, do not let them touch you. If they do, inform that you do not consent to being touched and their actions meet the Massachusetts General Law definition of assault. Do not disobey an order to leave the premises - that is one of the very few items where they actually have real authority.
- Do not consent to any pat frisk or search. If they are not police, that is "assault", not "police work".
- When you leave, walk away from Mall property (perhaps to the Cloverleaf or Sherwood mall) and call an Uber. Come back many hours later for your car wearing different clothes and a hat - they will try to follow you in person or on camera to get your plate and identify you. You do not want to be on a list or reported to your licensing authority for suitability review - especially since the report may not be an accurate description of what happened.
- Above all be polite, do not raise your voice, and be sure your body language conveys a calm, non violent demeanor. They key is to do absolutely nothing to violate the law or convey any threat in the interaction.
Private property, not .gov, so they can infringe.Verfassungsmäßige Freiheiten sind im Einkaufszentrum Natick verboten. Ihr Recht auf unangemessene Durchsuchung und Beschlagnahme und die zweite Änderung sind bedeutungslos.
And lose most of their high-paying clientele?And why not include drug sniffing dogs since their code of conduct prohibits all things illegal?
Damn man, that's a lot to remember.
Do you have a checklist like this for every situation? I would be like " Hold on man, I got a checklist to go through before we proceed.. Am I free to go?"
Interesting considering the TX 51% law (felony)I just got back from a trip to Texas to visit my daughter. Went to Bike week in Galveston with gun toting 250,000 attendees. Gucci bikers, Black bikers, Lawyer bikers, the 'Banditios' 1%er's. My daughters driving her Porsche top down 2 guns underneath my seat. It felt like rerun of TET-68, but The only mayhem was a drunk illegal trucker killing a bunch of people in an electric cart. Open carry at a bar no-one even notices or cares. Loved it.
Well know one gave a Texas shite...lolInteresting considering the TX 51% law (felony)
Then you better have your LTC on you when the police arrive. My understanding.... That will end up being called an ammunition component and falls under the same category as if it were a live round. "Everything is illegal in Massachusetts".Dog sniffs for gun powder residue? What if I bring in a pocket full of spent brass? Does the officer have a firearm?
Examples of specific activities that are prohibited include but are not limited to:Code of Conduct | Natick Mall
www.natickmall.com
It is not illegal to not notice the sign. It is not illegal to be present in the mall while armed
IF they for ANY reason told you to leave and you don't, then they will arrest or refer you to Natick PD for arrest.
If you leave when asked, you aren't getting arrested, probably. Or not legitimately arrested anyway
I think you missed the part where the mall cops are not sworn police officers. After confirming that with a direct question, the some leverage they have over you is ordering you to leaveThe dogs are trained to sniff out gun oils.
If you have an ltc they will escort you out to your vehicle, You can then either leave your firearm In your car or leave the mall.
If you do not have an ltc the police will be brought in.
forget about the fact this is completely stupid, What if it is retired LEO or off duty and carrying and not one of the peasant masses?
Speculation or direct info? Do you know the procedure or are you assuming it? Do you know that is it the oils the dogs sniff and not other odors from firearms and ammo (like gun shot residue - present in small quantities even on reasonably well cleaned handguns)?The dogs are trained to sniff out gun oils.
If you have an ltc they will escort you out to your vehicle, You can then either leave your firearm In your car or leave the mall.
If you do not have an ltc the police will be brought in.
Baloney.The dogs are trained to sniff out gun oils.
Apparently when he went through puberty, he did not have a dog.Do I need to spell it out for you?
Is this a confession?Apparently when he went through puberty, he did not have a dog.
They can't detain you. If they try to, that's a crime (assault, assault & battery, etc.).Ok, so after you decline to ID and answer any questions what if they don't ask you to leave, what if they tell you to wait for LEO? Does their suspicion you have a firearm give them cause to attempt to detain you?
Wouldn't powder residue make more sense? I'll bet you more people walk around with dirty guns that all oiled up and clean. Especially the types of morons that pop off in malls.The dogs are trained to sniff out gun oils.
If you have an ltc they will escort you out to your vehicle, You can then either leave your firearm In your car or leave the mall.
If you do not have an ltc the police will be brought in.