Nashua, NH - Man pulls gun on of-duty cop over parking space

[appraiser]

- Off duty cop goes for badge so subject knows he has power over him. (what other reason is there for flashing a badge in a situation such as this?)

But the guy was NOT a "off duty cop" with any juristiction if I were going to venture a guess. He was a RETIRED Nashua cop. It would be like my Dad pulling out his badge after he left the force and trying to pass himself off as a cop. If Mr Retired cop had detained Mr Webb,before the gun was pulled ( which brought it into felony territory and a citizens arrest is valid) there is a false imprisonment charge added to impersonating an officer. Cripes he was not even in the same STATE as his limited police powers were granted.

I doubt his position as a U Mass Lowell cop, which are sworn as either MSP "Specials, or Middlesex County Deputy Sheriffs gives him jurisdiction.

Why isn't he being charged for impersonating an officer?

Here it is right from the U Mass Lowell website btw

"UMass Lowell police officers are fully sworn with special State Police powers in accordance with Massachusetts General Law 22c, Section 63 which gives them the same police authority as municipal police officers for “…any criminal offense committed in or upon the lands or structures owned, used, or occupied by such…university.”


Additionally, officers derive their authority promulgated from the Board of Trustees of the University of Massachusetts and are sworn as Middlesex County Deputy Sheriffs which allows officers to perform police duties on the public ways of the county.

As such, the officers of the UMass Lowell Police Department have the ability to act both on and off campus within the City of Lowell as well as all of Middlesex County, if there should ever be a need to assist another police agency. Officers also have the authority to issue motor vehicle citations for motor vehicle infractions as well as the authority to enforce Massachusetts General Laws both on and off the campus. "

I don't see NH Police Powers being granted here do you?

 

[mikefmcnally]

The fact the guy waited for the cop to come out to his car and then tells him "you're not going anywhere" is enough to be driven the hell over. If you don't have a uniform on and stand in front of my car you have a death wish.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

accidental dupe deleted

 

[Rob Boudrie]

But the guy was NOT a "off duty cop" with any juristiction if I were going to venture a guess. He was a RETIRED Nashua cop.

Power comes in formal and informal, but very real forms. In the post-incident sorting out of any A vs B conflict, the one with the badge, even from another jurisdiction, is far more likely to have his version of events accepted as fact.

If the roles were reversed, the badge (even absent formal jurisdiction), plus a discussion of furtive movement, would have ended the issue over the drawn gun without arrest.

The fact the guy waited for the cop to come out to his car and then tells him "you're not going anywhere" is enough to be driven the hell over. If you don't have a uniform on and stand in front of my car you have a death wish.

If someone pulls that line on me, I'll get into my car, call the PD, and tell them I am being subject to unlawful imprisonment by a civilian (yes, blocking a car counts as it impairs mobility) and then use the system to my advantage.

 

[SamH]

I believe the cops story

cops never lies


what ?

Power comes in formal and informal, but very real forms. In the post-incident sorting out of any A vs B conflict, the one with the badge, even from another jurisdiction, is far more likely to have his version of events accepted as fact.

I was about to say just that.

 

[TWtommers]

Holy crap. A pair of idiots.

1. Never a need to confront someone over parking unless they're blocking you in or parked on your foot.
2. Never a need to tell anyone you're a cop when you've done something against the rules unless you've done that thing so you can save a baby/puppy or stop a burglury and you better include a hood slide in that case.

The only thing that saying "I'm a cop" would do for me in a situation like this is to confirm that you are the worst kind self absorbed, entitled prick.

 

[Martlet]

How some of you think its rational to blame the cop is beyond me.

I'm not blaming the cop. I'm simply saying the story, as presented thus far, doesn't portray a rational chain of events.

Cop parks illegally, presumably physically hindering nobody.
Citizen is angry simply because the cop parked illegally.
Citizen waits for the cop, then doesn't allow him to leave with no reason given.
Cop identifies himself as such, then goes to present a badge.
Citizen draws his firearm.
Cop talks the citizen into relinquishing his firearm.

The chain of events just isn't logical. I believe we'll learn that something very different happened, or the citizen is batshit crazy.

 

[dhuze]

IMHO it sounds like a pair of retards got into an argument over a parking spot, except the guy with the gun went full retard.

-Mike

This pretty much sums it all up.

 

[OB1Kenobi]

did some of you eat lead paint chips as kids?

Spoiler: LEAD Paint

 

[pdm]

 

[pdm]

did some of you eat lead paint chips as kids?

Spoiler: LEAD Paint

Wall candy?

 

[Terminator03]

I wholeheartedly agree with you....If someone (doesnt matter who) parking illegally sets a person off enough to pull a gun on them, then that person deserves all the s**t thats gonna fall on him for doing something that stupid and dangerous...............I would also add that a physciatric (pardon the spelling) examination would be in order also. Dummies such as this are the ones who cause the anti-gun polaticians to come up with all their feel good laws that effect the LAW ABIDING in more negative ways than we care to experience...............

I totally agree with this, and also agree that it's a**holes like this that make us all look bad as gun owners! Just gives the libs more reason to make more laws to protect everyone from those crazy gun toting civilians.

 

[Jose]

There's that whole Animal Farm thing again.....

 

[Terminator03]

It's not a matter of "blaming the cop", but trying to understand what could have happened given incomplete information (with one side's position being presented as fact by the media).

My guess -

- Subject initiates confrontation
- Off duty cop goes for badge so subject knows he has power over him. (what other reason is there for flashing a badge in a situation such as this?)
- Subject sees a lunge that looks like "going for a gun"
- Subject reacts in a manner that would be "commendable" if done by an off duty officer; "criminal" if done by a civilian



True - if the gun was pointed for parking. The story is consistent with what would be 100% justified if the person with the gun was an off duty officer and the driver was a civilian reaching for his ID in the vehicle after a heated discussion and using the same motions that would be used to go for a gun.

But, in this case, a reasonable person would never have created that situation in the first place - and that is real source if idiocy in the encounter. Totally, and easily, avoidable.

Rob, I agree, after reading the story, your version of what could have happened sounds very plausible. I also agree that if the roles were reversed, not only would drawing the weapon have been justified, but as you said, he would have been commended for using his actions.

 

[Coyote33]

I've had a few "discussions" over my parking and nobody ever even came close to pulling a gun on me. I've even been on the other side of "well I'm a cop" and still never seen a gun. ... I'm pretty sure you are getting arrested in 100% of all instances. ...

ALL instances? If the roles were reversed, not too likely.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Rob, I agree, after reading the story, your version of what could have happened sounds very plausible.

More plausible than someone who made it to age 29 with a clean record suddenly decide to start initiating a felonious assault on someone after threatening to summon the police

 

[Stef]

IMHO it sounds like a pair of retards got into an argument over a parking spot, except the guy with the gun went full retard.

He may have had a waiver.

 

[billmelater]

I seem to recall that in the first article I read(Lowell Sun online,) Childs said that when he turned back from getting his badge the other guy was in the prone position, on the wet ground, with the gun aimed at his (Childs') chest. Conflicting with the Globe and Telegraph articles quoted here.

I Googled the Sun article and found it halfway down the page here:
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp....,cf.osb&fp=e3ef0ee8dea6d32c&biw=1445&bih=753

www.lowellsun.com/ci_19152206 10/20/2011

My first impression was that something's a little off. There's way too much detailed explaining and sweetness, right from the start. Not typical reporting.

The author of the article also writes this blog about police activity for The Sun:
http://sunpoliceline.wordpress.com/2011/10/16/shut_that_ing_t/

 

[MisterHappy]

Is it even illegal to park "outside the lines" in a private-property venue? If you're not in a marked fire lane, or in a HP spot, can you be ticketed? I guess if you're obstructing traffic, you might be towed, but can a citation even be written in this situation?

 

[In God We Trust]

Is it even illegal to park "outside the lines" in a private-property venue? If you're not in a marked fire lane, or in a HP spot, can you be ticketed? I guess if you're obstructing traffic, you might be towed, but can a citation even be written in this situation?

Handicapped and firelane are the only things that can be enforced as far as I know. Or criminal acts like OUI, suspended DL, etc. Even those stop signs and posted speed limits can't be enforced on private property to my knowledge.

 

[dhuze]

Imagine if this guy went to a mall during the Christmas season. He'd probably explode.

 

[thug23]

As crazy as this story is and for the most part even though the cops a douch bag for thinking he's above the law and will park where ever he dam well pleases...the guy who pulled the gun is obviously way over board on this one. THESE ARE THE REASONS YOU SHOULD ALWAYS CARRY WITH YOU. You never know who/what/where things could go down. I would have drawn and shot that nut dead in the parking lot & been justified in court.

 

[vellnueve]

There's a lot of stupidity in that situation, but if I had to rank them on a scale of 1-10:

1. Guy parking in a non-parking space: 0.05

2. Other guy pulling a .38 and pointing it at the other dude: Eleventy billion

I wouldn't even call it 0.05. It's friggin' New England - in most towns police don't bother to ticket people parked in the middle of the street because it's so common.

Had someone else “not noticed” that he had parked in an illegal parking space, this cop would have not accepted that excuse from the regular Joe parking illegally. He would have stated that ignorance of the law is no excuse!

Way to assume. I've seen many instances of BPD and other town PDs driving right by cars parked in the street with their blinkers on.





Seriously, anyone who thinks that Mr. Childs bears any responsibility for this situation needs to have their heads examined. Just because he's a police officer (retired, current college PD, whatever) doesn't mean that he's in the wrong. From the articles I've read, the retard pulled the gun without any actual provocation - and the fact that Mr. Webb was doing everything to prevent Mr. Childs from leaving (including calling the police), indicates to me that he's the same sort of nanny-state authoritarian that so many of you profess to disdain (have a personal dispute? call the police).

The fact is, if Mr. Childs was not a police officer, every single person in this thread would be condemning the actions of this idiot. He started the situation by going nuclear over a frigging illegally parked car. Cops can be victims too - and the fact that the guy was trying to prevent Mr. Childs from leaving actively even before the gun was drawn indicates to me that this person was way, way off base. Any attempt to put more than a miniscule amount of blame on Mr. Childs (sure, he parked illegally) is nothing more than pure, unadulterated idiocy.

The fact that Mr. Childs is a police officer is completely irrelevant as this situation was escalated well beyond reason by Mr. Webb long before Mr. Childs identified himself (and no, there's no problem with saying you're a cop just because you're outside your jurisdiction). Hell, I'm betting there's a few people here who would have drawn a gun if some guy was actively using his body to block them from driving away.

 

[Martlet]

Hell, I'm betting there's a few people here who would have drawn a gun if some guy was actively using his body to block them from driving away.

Not me. Human shield vs my Jeep. Jeep wins. If I keep the speed down, I won't even scratch the paint.

 

[vellnueve]

Not me. Human shield vs my Jeep. Jeep wins. If I keep the speed down, I won't even scratch the paint.

That's the intelligent way to do things

BTW: Let me add the caveat that my post is my opinion based on the news reports that have been posted in this thread. I reserve the right to alter my thoughts based on additional information.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

As crazy as this story is and for the most part even though the cops a douch bag for thinking he's above the law and will park where ever he dam well pleases..

"Making parking spaces" is very common with full parking lots, and harmless when it does not impede access to other cars or fire/emergency access. I'm not even sure there is a law you can cite for someone who parks on the grass next to the parking lot in a private shopping plaza. If asked, chances are pretty good the store would rather have someone do that than lose their business.

I too don't like the concept of "special immunity", but I really don't think this qualifies. If you or I were parking thusly and the police summoned, the worst that would be likely to happen if we were there would be "you need to move your car".

 

[Half Cocked]

I'm willing to bet there is much more to this story than initially reported.

This ^^^^^

IMHO it sounds like a pair of retards got into an argument over a parking spot, except the guy with the gun went full retard.

-Mike

This ^^^^

 

[Bob P]

http://nashua.patch.com/articles/xx-18ebf6d9

The guy was getting his badge because Webb had already indicated he was armed and was planning on holding him until the police arrived.

I'm sorry, but from what we've heard, Webb is a fruitloop. Some kind of LEO wanna-be. A citizens arrest for a parking violation? Really? MYOFB and if I'm not blocking you, why the F do you care where I park?

 

[davemata]

What a moron move, pulling a gun over a parking spot. He needs to be put up for a while. Who's to say he wouldn't do that to someone else and finally just pull the trigger?

Regardless of who parked where, unless they're blocking you in, STFU, you have no input. (Unless it's your property.) Entitled, deranged, moron.

Anyone supporting Webb's actions needs some sit time with a head shrinker, or a can opener, the Alcoa headdress is on too tight.

 

[*chris*]

IMHO it sounds like a pair of retards got into an argument over a parking spot, except the guy with the gun went full retard.

-Mike

Spot on assessment. Heck, on the weekends in Nashua I rarely park in a space since I am usually towing a 5x10 landscaping trailer picking chit up at Home Depot or Lowes. If you are not blocking the flow of traffic WGAFF? If some dude was leaning against my car, I would be pretty pissed.

Chris