N.H. Announces It Will Sue Massachusetts Over Cross-Border Income Tax Collections

omega42

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This is a good move. Sadly, people in NH were lined up to kiss Gov. Noem's feet while she actively supports forcing NH businesses to collect and remit SD sales tax.
She says what they want to hear about the Chinese virus so they forget about her tax overreach. Link to an article about her doubling down on that:

 

KBCraig

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MA would be very happy to tax everyone based on the companies they work for having any presence in MA. MA and DOR roll that way, sucking blood out of rocks!
In South Dakota v. Wayfair, SCOTUS held that an "economic nexus" was sufficient to collect sales tax, without any physical presence in the state.

Don't be surprised if this direct filing with SCOTUS has the same result, even after ACB is confirmed.
 

Rob Boudrie

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In South Dakota v. Wayfair, SCOTUS held that an "economic nexus" was sufficient to collect sales tax, without any physical presence in the state.

Don't be surprised if this direct filing with SCOTUS has the same result, even after ACB is confirmed.
It gets really complicated if you work for a multinational with facilities all over the place. I live in MA; used to go into an office in MA; have a boss and a boss squared in MN; and frequently work on projects with people in various other states and countries. So if i lived in NH I would have nexxi to MA and MN - which would overrule? The closest place I could drive to with the company name on the building; the closest place that has people doing what I do or the place where my boss is located?

The MA logic seems to be "but for Covid, you would be showing up to work in the DPRM".

I don't expect "MA needs the money" to be accepted as a valid legal argument in federal court like it would in a MA court.
 

MisterHappy

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It gets really complicated if you work for a multinational with facilities all over the place. I live in MA; used to go into an office in MA; have a boss and a boss squared in MN; and frequently work on projects with people in various other states and countries. So if i lived in NH I would have nexxi to MA and MN - which would overrule? The closest place I could drive to with the company name on the building; the closest place that has people doing what I do or the place where my boss is located?

The MA logic seems to be "but for Covid, you would be showing up to work in the DPRM".

I don't expect "MA needs the money" to be accepted as a valid legal argument in federal court like it would in a MA court.
This is EXACTLY why Auntie Entity created Thunderdome.
 

jpk

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I don't care if they run from COVID, but everyone running from COVID is bringing their fear with them. These aren't gun and tax refugees.
Are people running from covid or governments response to covid?

Just my own personal opinion based on having met some of the above blow ins....its both in most cases

If folks are not taking this opportunity to help red pill these people and turn them into allies against big/unconstitutional/obtrusive gov then thats a lost opportunity to convert people to our side
 

Path-Finder

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If NH creates a small, and I mean very small income tax, would that prevent Mass from collecting anything? I thought if you paid income tax in the state you lived in you were not required to pay into the state you worked in. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 

Len-2A Training

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If NH creates a small, and I mean very small income tax, would that prevent Mass from collecting anything? I thought if you paid income tax in the state you lived in you were not required to pay into the state you worked in. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Nope. You declare what you paid to the other state and get credit for that against the tax the opposite state claims you must pay.
 

42!

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If NH creates a small, and I mean very small income tax, would that prevent Mass from collecting anything? I thought if you paid income tax in the state you lived in you were not required to pay into the state you worked in. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Once opened you can not put the gini back in the bottle. Don't go there.
 

Path-Finder

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Well good luck to the people of NH. I live in Massachusetts so I reap the benefits of out of state workers leaving their tax money here but I would rather see New Hampshire find a way to stick it up Massachusetts' ass. I think collecting tax money from out of state employees is robbery.
 

42!

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Well good luck to the people of NH. I live in Massachusetts so I reap the benefits of out of state workers leaving their tax money here but I would rather see New Hampshire find a way to stick it up Massachusetts' ass. I think collecting tax money from out of state employees is robbery.
And we'd like to thank you for all the liquor, fireworks, vape, and flavored tobacco product revenu. Next, hopefully, will be legalizing MJ without all the taxes that drives the cost up in MA.
 

JayMcB

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Well good luck to the people of NH. I live in Massachusetts so I reap the benefits of out of state workers leaving their tax money here but I would rather see New Hampshire find a way to stick it up Massachusetts' ass. I think collecting tax money from out of state employees is robbery.
you've been in MA too long. ALL taxation is theft, which is why despite paying off a mortgage on a property we will have owned for 20 years this winter, there will still be a tax bill of over 100 dollars a WEEK to continue to rent it from the local .gov
 

edmorseiii

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MA and ME should get together and seize the I95 corridor through NH.
Commission a ferry to take those travelers out to sea and unclutter our roads, I am fine with that.

This is a good move. Sadly, people in NH were lined up to kiss Gov. Noem's feet while she actively supports forcing NH businesses to collect and remit SD sales tax.
 

Path-Finder

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you've been in MA too long. ALL taxation is theft, which is why despite paying off a mortgage on a property we will have owned for 20 years this winter, there will still be a tax bill of over 100 dollars a WEEK to continue to rent it from the local .gov
You're not kidding I've been in Massachusetts too long. I've lived here my whole life. It's sad because I think Massachusetts is a beautiful state with alot of history but I can't stand the people the, politics or the expense of living here. Where can you go to escape paying the government something? Even if I lived off the grid on my acreage in maine I'd have to pay 400 bucks a year to the town. More if there was a building.

My point about robbery was that I think it's ridiculous that NH residents have to pay MA income tax if they work here. At least if you live in the state you pay income tax to you're getting SOMETHING out it. Although probably not much.
 
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You folks need all the info.
I live in New Hampshire.
In the past Mass only collected employment taxes on the time you actually worked in Massachusetts.
Although I worked for a Mass company and had an office there, I was allowed to prorate my Mass income tax based on the time I was not actually working in Mass. This included time overseas (China), out of the country (Mexico), at trade shows (California etc.), at at customers facilities that were not in Mass.
Then Mass required companies to keep tract of the time away from Mass and they told us that they couldn’t so we had to eat the Ma**h*** taxes.
When the pandemic began I asked the company if they would be willing to document the time was expected to work from my home office in NH and they agreed.
Then the Ma**h***s decided to change the rules and make me pay them even though I am working in NH.

People may wonder why I don’t like Massachusetts, but they are greedy leftists liberals and this is only one the many reasons.
Their position on 2A is another, Elizabeth Warren and Ed Markey are more, and — never mind I could fill a few pages of what I dislike about Massachusetts and Ma**h***s.

I have friends in Massachusetts that I respect but they living in $hit...
Unfortunately, the company I work for has no way to split out days in MA versus days at home. I previously had this idea I could just have the W-2 say all are MA-sourced, then on the tax form I "correct" it for them and list how many days went where. But, then I was told by various people I was asking around about that idea is don't you dare do that, guaranteed audit. I also have no way for them to "write a letter" saying "oh by the way, the W-2 is wrong, believe what this guy says about when he worked in NH."

My company doesn't even know and has no way to verify what I say, so they really can't be in a position of doing that. They are based in India and have little understanding of the details of how taxes work involving the states. 90% of the company is in India. HR is based out of India too. The best I could do is permanently switch it to NH, if they could officially declare me as a "mobile employee". But no, I'm officially an employee out of a tiny office in MA, which I haven't seen since February and they even powered down all the servers there and set the heat at 50F in an empty building with even the cafe gone. But, I'm working there, I guess.
 

Dennis in MA

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Well good luck to the people of NH. I live in Massachusetts so I reap the benefits of out of state workers leaving their tax money here but I would rather see New Hampshire find a way to stick it up Massachusetts' ass. I think collecting tax money from out of state employees is robbery.

Whether it costs me $ or not, right is right and wrong is wrong. Politicians can talk about legal right and wrong all they want. When EVERYONE knows you're being a douche, you're being a douche. (I mean Charlie Baker, FWIW.)

So as a mASS resident, it's technically gonna cost me for them NOT to wrongly-take-$ from NH residents. But it's the right thing to do.
 
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you've been in MA too long. ALL taxation is theft, which is why despite paying off a mortgage on a property we will have owned for 20 years this winter, there will still be a tax bill of over 100 dollars a WEEK to continue to rent it from the local .gov
Very true. In the olden day’s the King owned all the property and allowed people to use it.
One of the things the patriots (not the football guys) wanted was the right to own property.
It is a part of the pursuit of happiness, security, etc.

As JayMcB said, property taxes are theft.. the governments way to stop us from owning property.
We are just renting it with a big down payment.
 

cathouse01

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In my mind the real issue in all this cross state taxation is one that was key to the original revolution: No taxation without representation. Folks who live in NH can’t vote in MA, so MA taxing them is, in effect, taxation without representation.
 

jpk

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She says what they want to hear about the Chinese virus so they forget about her tax overreach. Link to an article about her doubling down on that:

Overall tax burden in South Dakota is less than NH......Gov Noem is a rock star on the issues.....she's no squishy progressive northeast republican.....



Overall burden in SD is 7.1% while NH iirc is almost 8%
 

Dennis in MA

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Very true. In the olden day’s the King owned all the property and allowed people to use it.
One of the things the patriots (not the football guys) wanted was the right to own property.
It is a part of the pursuit of happiness, security, etc.

As JayMcB said, property taxes are theft.. the governments way to stop us from owning property.
We are just renting it with a big down payment.

What is The Magna Carta. Wickei-Old History for 200, Alex.

When is 1215 AD. WOH for 300.

Where is in the National Archive next to the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.


I have to admit - to someone who values freedom so much, that was a pretty cool moment to see all 3. That had to have been 15 years ago. Wow!
 

AFAR/PFAR

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If you join the Military while living in Virginia, they Tax you
until you leave the Military and set up a residence in another
state.They will do it even if you are stationed outside the country.

I knew someone at the AUTEC Base I was at that this was happening to him.

Malodave
You can change your state of residency for pay purposes.

I'm from Mass and paid Mass income tax the very first year I was in the Army and changed quickly. Since I've been in, my state of residency for pay has been MA, FL, AK, and I just sent in another DD2058 to change it to NH now that I have settled here for retirement. You get a bunch of flexibility with military pay if you know you are not moving back to Mass. Heck, for the last 12 years, I've had either an LA, NC, or AK drivers license, an NC and IN CCW permit, my truck was registered in LA and then AK, and I've lived in LA(twice), AK, TX, NC, IN, and now retired in NH.
I just finally got my NH license(took them 32 days to mail it), my truck is registered, and I'm just waiting on the NH title for my truck to be mailed.

In over 28 years, I lived in NC four times, LA twice, AK, IN, TX, RI, Italy, the regular IZ/AFG crap, and only paid state taxes for one year to MA.
 

Asaltweapon

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The Town Fair Tire established that a NH business could knowingly sell in person, in NH, to a MA resident without collecting MA sales tax.
And guess where I have a quote with on 4 new sneakers for my truck.
The case was a result that TFT also had stores in other NE states so the record search was easy.
 

Rob Boudrie

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We are just renting it with a big down payment.
It's more like a rent controlled apartment where you sell the right to rent the place at the controlled rent to the next tenant.

Get a 30 year mortgage and it's a safe bet that you payments (including property taxes) after the mortgage is paid off will be greater than when you started.
 

djbradles

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Very true. In the olden day’s the King owned all the property and allowed people to use it.
One of the things the patriots (not the football guys) wanted was the right to own property.
It is a part of the pursuit of happiness, security, etc.

As JayMcB said, property taxes are theft.. the governments way to stop us from owning property.
We are just renting it with a big down payment.
The feudal system was a very interesting point in history and the correlation to the colonial period is similar. When serfs who work the land also provide security for it, replacing the knights, it is only right that they also pay for it once and then pay no more if it was up for sale.
 

Rob Boudrie

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The feudal system was a very interesting point in history and the correlation to the colonial period is similar. When serfs who work the land also provide security for it, replacing the knights, it is only right that they also pay for it once and then pay no more if it was up for sale.
The term for that is allodial title.

Property taxes exist because they are the only tax obligation that is near universally collateralized. I say "near universally" because some properties actually have negative value, as the owner is responsible for toxic waste cleanup even if (s)he cannot recover funds from the previous owner. There have been cases where banks refused to foreclose on a property for exactly this reason.
 
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