My P365 Range Trip/Observations Update #3

[massgun]

See post #24 for update 03/13/19
SeePost #16 for update 2/26/19

Yesterday I had a good weather day (60 deg) to finally get the new 365 to the range (I no longer live in the Northeast). I was looking for a higher capacity, small form factor gun to replace the snubbie I have carried for 9 or 10 years and decided after trying 5 different guns at a local range the P365 was it.

I did the field strip and cleaned and lubed the pistol prior to the range trip. Out of the box, the trigger pull was 8 lbs with my old spring type RCBS trigger pull gauge. This seemed heavy since Sig says about 5-6 lb pull for this pistol I think, but it did not feel that heavy to my finger. The sights are excellent and the grip nicely textured. I had bought 3-12 rnd mags for it and loaded them and the included 10 rounder's up with Federal AE 124 Gr. 9mm giving me 56 rnds to fire before I would need to load up again.

I fired 5 sets of 56 rnds for a total of 280 rnds without any problems whatsoever. Despite it being a pretty tiny pistol with a short sight radius and 3.1" barrel, I felt I was pretty accurate with it. Although this trip I was mainly firing just to verify function/reliability, I took my time every once in a while and tried to be fairly accurate. When I did, I was getting most shots inside a 2" square on a target that was left there unused from about 7 yards. It shot to point of aim. I plan to put 500 rnds +/- of fmj and min 100 rnds of carry type ammo with, hopefully, no issues thru it before I designate it my new carry piece.

When I got home, I checked the trigger pull again, and got readings from about 6.75 lbs to 7 lbs, so, hopefully, it will get even better with use. I also decided to not clean it and see if I can get thru my break-in/reliability testing without issue (I hardly ever clean the G19).

Overall, I think it will be a great carry gun, but there were a couple things that, IMO, make it not quite a perfect 10.

Issue 1: Overall, I like the grip and the texture, but after maybe 150 rnds, I noticed a red spot forming on my palm where the bottom corner of the grip sat and it felt a little abraded. Whether this happens to you will depend on your hand size and your grip, but is something that could probably be easily remedied.

Issue 2: For me, all the mags were impossible to load to full capacity using only thumb power, a maglula loader made it much easier, especially for the 12 rnd mags. Several times, the bottom of the follower seemed to catch on the bottom edge of the mag catch slot and needed some manipulation to get it by the slot.

Issue 3: With the supplied 10 rnd mags, i could insert a loaded mag, chamber a rnd, drop and top off the mag and reinsert it in the pistol giving the advertised 10+1 capacity. The 12 rnd mags took much more effort to get the 12th rnd in the mag and there appeared to be no more space left in the mag for the top rnd to move down at all. When I tried to insert a 12 rnd mag with a rnd chambered in the gun, I was unable to get the mags to click into place, this results in effectively having only 1 more rnd in the gun when using a 12 rnd mag (12 vs 10+1).

 

[92G]

if possible, put a few k rounds through it and let us know how it is running.

 

[massgun]

if possible, put a few k rounds through it and let us know how it is running.

I'll get the first 5-600 rnds thru pretty quickly as I want to start carrying it, the next 500 rnds will come fairly soon after. After the 1'st 1K, I'll probably not shoot that many rnds per range trip unless I can find an extremely cheap source of quality 9mm, (I usually buy per 1K from Target Sports USA). I'll try to remember to update after my 1'st 600 rnds and again after 1K or so, including trigger pull numbers, which I hope does come down a bit more, (5.5-6 lbs would be fine with me). I will certainly post if I have any issues with it.

 

[slap shot]

Are you checking your brass for the dreaded striker drag?

 

[massgun]

Are you checking your brass for the dreaded striker drag?

I know about it, but did not bother checking this trip, will check next trip. As long as the gun continues to function reliably, I'm not too concerned about that as many online reviewers have said it is common on small guns such as this and should not cause any function/reliability issues either short or long term.

 

[slap shot]

I know about it, but did not bother checking this trip, will check next trip. As long as the gun continues to function reliably, I'm not too concerned about that as many online reviewers have said it is common on small guns such as this and should not cause any function/reliability issues either short or long term.

I’ve heard that too but never have seen any evidence wrt other small guns. Hope it’s reliable for you.

 

[loonski]

I got myself one about 2 weeks ago, went right to the range, first time ever that I decided to shoot a new gun right out of the box, no cleaning, just loaded the 10 round mags and went through 300 rounds, not one issue. Only issue for me is the night sites are a bit small for the aging eyes, bright light gave me issues, darkened environment and I was fine. I am definitely thinking this will replace my 9s as an EDC.

 

[MarkT]

Thank you for the range report! I`m very interested in this pistol as a replacent for my pm9,

 

[massgun]

Thank you for the range report! I`m very interested in this pistol as a replacent for my pm9,

I don't own, but have shot, the PM9 and think it is a very fine pistol and certainly small enough for pocket carry, which I prefer over any type of holster. It remains to be seen if I can pocket carry the Sig or if I'll need a holster. After trying 5 small form pistols though, I felt that the Sig shot the best for me and you can't argue against 10+1 rnds in a pistol that size! If you can find a range that has the Sig to rent or someone in your club that has one, try it, it's the only way to know if it will work for you. While it is not the least expensive pistol in its class, it is less than some such as the PM9, and the Xray night sights are already in place, I paid $500 for mine.

 

[Dradian]

Thanks for the review. Keep us posted on it.

 

[fivepak]

Issue 2: For me, all the mags were impossible to load to full capacity using only thumb power, a maglula loader made it much easier, especially for the 12 rnd mags. Several times, the bottom of the follower seemed to catch on the bottom edge of the mag catch slot and needed some manipulation to get it by the slot.

Both my 10 and 12 round mags were very difficult to load to capacity at first. They do loosen up quickly.

 

[massgun]

I got to the range today to continue my testing of the P365. I did not clean it from the first trip but did add a drop of CLP to each of the slide rails just 'cause it looked a little dry.

So this trip I put 264 rnds of Federal AE 115gr and 124gr FMJ thru it mixed up in all the mags I have for it and it ran without a hitch for a total now of 544 rnds. I also brought some old (1998 vintage) defensive (HP) ammo I had which I also mixed in the magazines and shot without incident. These rnds consisted of; 20-Federal Hi Shok 115gr HP; 25 rnds Rem Golden Saber 124gr HP; and finally, 10 rnds of Corbon 115gr +P HP for a total rnd count to date of 599rnds.

This time, I checked a bunch of the brass and did, in fact, see the dreaded striker drag, very obvious. All I can say is it hasn't caused a problem for me yet, but I can understand the concern some folks have regarding this. For those who are concerned about possible breakage of the Sig MIM striker, I guess there is at least 1 company making a machined steel replacement striker.

I checked the trigger pull again and was getting 6.5 to 6.75 lbs this time, so it seems to be getting better although it feels lighter than that to me.

The mags are still a bit hard to load, I use a Maglula UpLULA which makes it much easier. The 12 rnd mags are the most difficult, there is absolutely no room left after the 12th rnd to be able to push the rnds down enough to be able to seat the mag with a closed slide whereas it can be done with the 2 included 10 rnd mags. I will do some web searching to see if this is mentioned anywhere and, if not, I may call or email Sig and ask if that is normal for the 12 rnders.

Next task, I'm going to try a few current defensive rnds and settle on one or two and run 100 or so thru the Sig and, if there are no problems, I will start carrying it. If anyone has some recommendations on defensive ammo, please post.

 

[MarkT]

\

If anyone has some recommendations on defensive ammo, please post.

My preference is Hornady Critical defense. I've never had any issues with it in any of my carry guns and it is usually easy to find.

 

[92G]

\

My preference is Hornady Critical defense. I've never had any issues with it in any of my carry guns and it is usually easy to find.

while I like HST's, I have to admit the hornady critical defense is pretty cool what is achieves in ballistic gel despite it being a somewhat less powerful loading. the upside is it looks to achieve the same terminal ballistics with less recoil. the FTX bullet is a less intense expanding projectile, meaning it expands to a less than usual diameter. however it seems to expand no matter what barriers are in front of it. their quality control on this ammo seems very high. i agree it looks like good stuff.

underwood's loading of the extreme defender copper projectiles is impressive although expensive.

 

[massgun]

I actually switched recently from the Speer Gold Dot 135gr +P .38 Special in my current snubbie carry to the Hornady Critical Defense 110 gr load in .38 Special because, due to my severe arthritis in both wrists, I could no longer fire the +P loads without inducing sharp pains every time I pulled the trigger. A Hornady critical Defense load is definitely on my list to try.

 

[massgun]

I finally got to the range for my third session. As before, I did not clean the gun after the last session, but added a drop of oil to the rails. This trip I fired 155 rnds, for a total of 754 rnds. without cleaning. All 155 were defensive HP's ranging from 115 gr to 150 gr with zero problems but I only used the 2 10 rnd mags supplied with the gun. Once I have chosen a carry rnd, I will make sure they function in the 3 12 rnd mags I purchased.

The tested rnds I was able to buy locally were:
Federal HST 147 gr - 20 rnds. Recoil mild.
Federal HST 150 gr MICRO - 20 rnds. Recoil mild.
Hornady Custom XTP 147 gr - 25 rnds. Recoil a bit more than the Federal.
Winchester Train & Defend 147 gr - 20 rnds. Recoil mild.
Sig V-Crown 147 gr - 10 rnds. Recoil moderate.
Sig V-Crown 124 gr - 10 rnds. Recoil moderate
Hornady Critical Defense 115 gr - 25 rnds. Recoil mild.

I also shot some Remington Golden Saber 124 gr - 15 rnds and Winchester Black Talon 147 gr - 10 rnds that I had laying around since probably 1996 or so. Recoil on both of these was moderate. It was interesting to note that the projectile of the Black Talon looked exactly like the one used in the new Winchester Train & Defend except for the black color of the Black Talon projectile.

As in the previous sessions, I was not shooting for absolute accuracy, just normal, off-hand 2 handed defensive type shooting at a distance of about 7 yards. All the rounds gave perfectly acceptable combat accuracy (think fist sized), but both Federal rnds and the Hornady 115 gr rnds did noticeably better than the others and had the mildest recoil. The mild recoil is very important to me since my severe wrist arthritis does not allow me to shoot many rnds of high recoiling ammo (think +P in a small gun like the P365) and I want to be able to practice with more than 1 mag on a regular basis.

As before, I took some trigger readings after this session and was consistently getting about 6.25 lbs, with one test coming in right at 6 lbs. This is with an old, spring type RCBS trigger pull gauge and maybe someone with a digital gauge and more experience using it would get different readings. When shooting, it feels much lighter to me.

I am now pretty confident in the reliability of my P365 and will decide on one of the Federal or the Hornady rnds and try maybe another hundred or so rnds thru all the mags and, if no problems arise, will begin carrying it.

I hope my range reports have been helpful to those of you who are considering the P365 as a carry gun. Please feel free to PM me with any specific questions you might have or just post here. Thanks for reading.

 

[VTski4x4]

Sounds just like my experience with the gun. Love it and carry it EDC. I'm using 124gr HST. As far as the primer drag, I too have it, but it seems better/worse depending on the type of ammo I am using. Aguila 124 = virtually none, WWB 115 noticable but not to the edge of the primer.

 

[MarkT]

I'm loving the P365.

The trigger is good, but I just did a trigger polish job on it and it is much, much, smoother. I don't have a trigger pull gauge so I don't know if it actually reduced the pull weight.


View: https://youtu.be/_L9Awpu8AbA

 

[mikelawtown]

700 rounds through this one
Pull is under 5lb
Looks like It’s dragging

 

[massgun]

Sounds just like my experience with the gun. Love it and carry it EDC. I'm using 124gr HST. As far as the primer drag, I too have it, but it seems better/worse depending on the type of ammo I am using. Aguila 124 = virtually none, WWB 115 noticable but not to the edge of the primer.

I didn't mention the drag in my latest report, but you are correct, the extent of the drag seems to vary depending on the ammunition. It doesn't worry me.

 

[massgun]

MarkT, regarding the trigger pull, I'm not sure I'd take my gun apart to do that polish job, but i will watch that video and seek out other articles concerning trigger improvement. After seeing mikelawtown's post and trigger pull pic, I need to check out my spring type gauge with some known weights to see if it is reading accurately and also make sure I am using the correct technique. Thank you both for your posts.

 

[MarkT]

MarkT, regarding the trigger pull, I'm not sure I'd take my gun apart to do that polish job, but i will watch that video and seek out other articles concerning trigger improvement. After seeing mikelawtown's post and trigger pull pic, I need to check out my spring type gauge with some known weights to see if it is reading accurately and also make sure I am using the correct technique. Thank you both for your posts.

Don't get me wrong the P365 trigger is really good out of the box, I just like to tinker. Whenever I buy a new gun a like to take it apart completely to see how everything functions together so if something goes wrong I might know where to begin to look for a fix.

 

[massgun]

Don't get me wrong the P365 trigger is really good out of the box, I just like to tinker. Whenever I buy a new gun a like to take it apart completely to see how everything functions together so if something goes wrong I might know where to begin to look for a fix.

I understand completely, but just don't have the confidence to take guns apart, even more so one one I will carry, but kudos to you. Actually, let me rephrase, I have the confidence to take guns apart but not necessarily to put them back together correctly!

 

[massgun]

I got to the range once again yesterday, 3/13, and fired another 254 rnds thru my P365 without incident for a grand total now of 1008 rnds without cleaning. The ammo was a mix of 115gr, 124gr and 147gr FMJ with a few more left over hollowpoints I found in the ammo cabinet. I feel pretty confident in this gun now and will clean it up and start carrying it in a pocket holster for now until I can decide on a IWB holster.

The ammo I have decided to carry in it is the Hornady 115gr critical defense, based on its accuracy, power (326 ft.lb) and fairly soft recoil. While the Federal HST's show a bit better expansion, they were not quite as accurate in my gun and had a bit more recoil.

I mentioned previously that I could not get a 12 rnd mag to seat fully with the slide closed thus preventing 12 +1 carry, so I called Sig customer service and asked about it. I got right thru to them and the gentleman I spoke with assured me it should seat, but could take some extra force and to just slam it in there and don't worry about breaking or damaging anything. I tried this a couple times and found that I could get the 12 rnd mags to seat, although it took a lot of force. I was then concerned that if that top rnd was putting that much force on the bottom of the slide, it might cause a feed or ejection malfunction after firing the rnd in the chamber, but it did not.

The mags, especially the 12 rnders, are still pretty stiff, but can be loaded fairly easily and quickly using a loading tool like the Maglula Uploader. The trigger seems to be settling in at the 6 lb mark which is factory spec, but definitely feels lighter to my trigger finger.

At this point, I will probably not post again until I hit 2k rnds or have a malfunction, and if I have a malfunction, it will hopefully occur at the range.

 

[btnh6668]

has sig acknowledged this drag issue?
'

 

[massgun]

has sig acknowledged this drag issue?
'

I did not ask the Sig rep about that, but Sig has acknowledged that it occurs but insists it is not an issue in terms of reliability of the pistol. Time will tell if it is an issue, but if you own a P365 and have reliability concerns because of this, there is at least one company that makes a machined SS striker to replace the MIM Sig part.

 

[MarkT]

Sig upgraded the striker a while back that is more robust than what shipped with the first batch.

Primer drag is common on compact striker fired pistols, due to the short slide cycle. Just keep shooting it and if there's an issue fix it.

 

[btnh6668]

I am by no means an expert, but the dragging seems like it would effect the firing pin after a while. Ive seen some drag but that seems rather deep

 

[sport7]

Thanks for the range report.