My New M1 Project (Formerly Rear Sight Issue)

[waltherlover]

OK -

So I picked up this somewhat rusty M1 from a friends father for cheap money, and I'm planning to restore it.

My problem is removing the rear sight - nowhere online when I look for instructions on disassembling the rear sight does it have one that looks like this:



Here's the whole assembly with the left wheel removed:



There's crud all over this rifle, so it's difficult to distinguish stuff, but it looks like some sort of roll pin or something. Any ideas how I would remove this knob?

Thanks.....

 

[waltherlover]

Also - anyone know where I can get the a clip or two for this thing and or some cheap 30 cal ammo?

Thanks...

 

[shanef]

http://www.civilianmarksmanship.com/striphtml/detailstripsight3.html

 

[waltherlover]

I already looked there - if you look at the picture of the knob there, and the picture I posted, you will see that they are drastically different.

 

[bpm990d]

google lock bar rear sight.

B

 

[shanef]

it is lock bar rear sight as 990d indicated...

 

[KingPing]

I have some en bloc clips I can part with. I also have some 30-06 surplus ammo. Send me a pm.

 

[waltherlover]

Just in case anyone is wondering - I found the solution. You basically have to unscrew and screw the locking bar like 10 times to fix the peening and then it comes apart. Thanks for your help - I am so new to M1 it's not even funny.

I also have a pile o parts on my kitchen table - it looks like this has mostly surface rust, but the internals are very clean. Unfortunately the surface rust includes the barrel - but I'll see how bad that is - I don't think there's much pitting - when I get it cleaned up, I'm going to take a look with a bore scope.

Everything metal is soaking in #9 right now.

 

[Maninblue1861]

mind getting some more info on the rifle? SN, barrel marks, ect? that sight looks original to gun, and they are rare to find with them as most were swapped out in late wwii, and post war rebuilds. Curious to see how correct/original it is.

 

[waltherlover]

My understanding is it was a bring back - no import markings at all. I'll put up the serial number tonight. As far as I know, it is all original, brought back from the front lines of WWII. Even has the GI tool and the cleaning tube.

It is a springfield. I'll post more details later, and maybe some pics if I finish the basics of reconditioning it tonight. It has one interesting feature, though. The front sight, has some sort of cover over the screw that seems metal. Can't figure out how to get it off for the life of me - I might drill and pop it later.

 

[pmclaine]

My understanding is it was a bring back - no import markings at all. I'll put up the serial number tonight. As far as I know, it is all original, brought back from the front lines of WWII. Even has the GI tool and the cleaning tube.

It is a springfield. I'll post more details later, and maybe some pics if I finish the basics of reconditioning it tonight. It has one interesting feature, though. The front sight, has some sort of cover over the screw that seems metal. Can't figure out how to get it off for the life of me - I might drill and pop it later.

Dont pop that front sight screw cover. They are rare to find. The armory stopped installing them early 1943 IIRC.

It is your gun and you can do what you want but you may have something there that is valuable to a collector. You may have no interest in collecting but with enough original features - uncut op rod, parts with drawing numbers - you may be able to sell that rifle and buy two service grades from the CMP.

Proceed with caution.

 

[bbarer]

Don't drill it!! Post a picture first, you may have a gas trap model, if it is all matching numbers and correct it may be better not to do too much reconditioning...

 

[waltherlover]

I'm mostly cleaning it at the moment - I'll finish that up tonight and put it back together and take some pictures. I don't think it's a gas trap model. If someone knows how to pop that sight cover without screwing it up, I'm all ears. I'm thinking some WD-40 might help. I'll leave it intact for the moment. I'll also check the numbers on the various parts tonight. I'll try to post detailed pictures of the various parts tonight as well.

 

[waltherlover]

Just out of curiosity - which parts should I be looking for marks/numbering on and/or taking pictures of?

 

[Maninblue1861]

Pull oprod back and should see a barrel date, bolt has #'s, bottom of oprod handle beneath stock, trigger group numbers, if early enough rear sight cover has numbers and or rare features, markings on the stock ( left rear near receiver, pistol grip and any other stampings found).

As stated above if the front sight has a cap over the screw dont touch it as its one part not seen on market anymore. You may have a rare treasure, and may want to find out what you exactly have. Any refinish or part swap would destroy its value if its indeed original bringback.

 

[Tommy Gun]

I'll trade you my H&R that is like new for your M1. Seriously don't drill anything until you know what you have. I also have plenty of ammo in clips if your interested.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[waltherlover]

So here is my plan -

I'm going to finish *cleaning* it tonight. Hopefully get the rust out of the barrel. I'm going to copiously write down as many numbers as I can find and their locations. I'm also going to take pictures and post them here - then you guys can tell me what I have. Sounds like this might be a gem, despite the surface rust.

Thanks!

 

[Maninblue1861]

No prob. Looking forward to it.

 

[mac1911]

I would only dissassemble enough to ID parts until you know what you have.

 

[waltherlover]

OK Boys and Girls, Here we go.......

The S/N is 8314XX, Definitely Springfield Armory.

Numbers I've found:

Top of bolt
D282887-123(8?)A
W9B(8?)

Left Side of Trigger Group: D28290-8-SA

Operating Arm: D35382 3 SA

Right Side of the Receiver
R 2 8 near the top
D28291-17
XX on the right side of those numbers

Area above trigger group: 59

Left side of stock at rear of receiver (below at rear)
8A
FMF (maybe EMF)
with a circle and a pair of crossed rifles to the right of it.

It definitely has some surface rust, mainly on the top of receiver, and on the bottom plate (below where the bullets go), and the trigger guard. The inside is clean, for the most part. Also, the barrel seems to be ok - tough to see without bore scoping it, but it looks pretty decent in there.

This apparently was the bring back by a naval officer.

And here are some pics...



Guys, I know so little about the M1 (other than to disassemble and assemble it now - anything you could tell me about this - or perhaps if you need pictures of other stuff, let me know.

Thanks!

 

[Maninblue1861]

OMG I hate you lol the stock stamp would be S. A. over E.McF and is correct. there should be a date on the barrel that can be anywhere from 6-42 to 9-42 (pull oprod back to lock in place, and read numbers on right side of barrel between the wood)

overall sounds all original to me from what I can tell. most of those numbers are early enough to fall into place...

 

[waltherlover]

There it is: SA 9-42.

So what does all this mean? I know it's a bring back, and I know it's an all matching from 42. It also has that funny cap on the front sight.

It is kinda rusty - any guesses on a value?

 

[mac1911]

A few links that may help or get on to CMP forums and milsurps.com forums http://www.northcapepubs.com/m1gar.htm
just 1 ex of how much parts can go for http://www.ammogarand.com/m1-garand-type-iii-lock-bar-rear-sight-pinion-complete-wwi.html

you could also google scott duff and read all about garands also.

Personally I would not worry about takeing down the rear sight at this time. The bar is most lilely staked on and you would need to remove or work loose the stake to tear the sight down. Also the Grand collectors association is good to check out also

 

[Tommy Gun]

Single Slot Gas Screw, nice.

Easy 1000.00 bucks maybe more, much more, if you don't try and make it look new. Right now just wipe the metal down with a GOOD Gun Oil. You can use WD-40 first but any Quality Gun Oil will be better imo.

Don't sand the stock at all and DON'T use oven cleaner or put it in the dish washer to clean. That's another just wipe it down with BLO or whatever the experts say to use, just go easy.

You could easily make that worth only the parts by scrubbing or harsh cleaning. On the other hand someone may drop big cash for it just the way it is.

 

[waltherlover]

Basically all I've done with this gun is cleaned it with some #9, and then put remoil all over everything to preserve it. If it's worth that much, I wouldn't mind selling it, just not sure where to start finding the "right" buyer. I may go play on the CMP forums and see what happens there. They may have even more information.

This was clearly a lucky buy for me. Sometimes it happens that way. I'm not going to do anything more to "restore" it until I figure out what the plan is for it - which from the sounds of things will probably be selling it.

 

[Maninblue1861]

id use fine steel wool and wd40 to remove the red rust, then wipe down with gun oil. in pristine shape all matching original 42 garands go for 2 grand maybe more. yours could probably fetch around 1500-1800 depending on barrel condition and muzzle and throat readings.

Dont have to sell it. you can still shoot it. i do it with my original stuff all the time. you wont use it nearly as much as one who was issued it would. So dont be afraid to keep it, and use it. you got some epic drool factor at the range that any milsurp lover would be envious about.

 

[pmclaine]

I'd be careful with the steel wool. Just use a nylon brush (bronze brush if you must), lots of elbow grease and liberal amounts of oil.

The single slot, front sight cap, original barrel, EMcF stock are all valuable parts. I dont know enough about Garands to verify the rest of it. Do a web search for Scott Duff and send him the best pictures you can take of the various markings on the rifle. Do the same on the CMP Forum as well as Culvers Shooting Page some of the experts will chime in with their opinions. Compile the information from the three sites and make a determination of what you want to do. If that is a 1942 Garand in original shape it will probably make a nice GCA article.

That front sight cap was put their at Springfield Armory. After they zeroed the rifle they set the cap to keep GI's from screwing with the front sight. GI's being Gi's and the fact that the rifles were damaged in battle meant the caps were pulled in use. Eventually Springfield just discontinued the part as it was extraneous. They are one time use and there is a special tool to install them (its just a pres fit so the tool can be dispensed with for something else). A gas cylinder assembly with front sight cap and sight would be more of a collector piece than a shooters item because a shooter is going to want to adjust the front sight. It has some value.

I dont know how to advise. Basically you are all excited about your rifle and want to do the right thing by tearing it down and cleaning it up but you are finding "Oh damn it may be too valuable to shoot." If you are hardset on a shooter sell this one for some good cash. You will likely have enough for a CMP special grade or better with money to get some ammo.

As the man in blue mentions it is entirely a shootable piece. The only concern I would have is the condition of the barrel. If it that rust has deteriorated its shooting ability you will not get the accuracy you want. But I would not replace the barrel if the gun is original. In that case keep it as a safe queen or sell it to a collector and get your shooter with a bunch of spare parts and ammo. Right now with the front sight as far out of line as it is it will be tough to adjust/tighten for shooting without removing the cap. I'd suggest buying a new gas cylinder assembly rather than pulling the plug. Keep that GC as is.

If you want I will post a link to your thread here under the title "Should he remove the front sight screw cap on a Garand with EMcF stock and peened lockbar". I think that would attract a lot of attention.

How many pm's/emails have you had with offers to buy?

 

[waltherlover]

Hah - thanks. My lockbar is no longer peened. You just screw it off and on a bunch of times and then you can remove the knob. I removed it to inspect and clean that area.

I posted this on Culvers. Got some interesting responses there.

No offers to buy other than the trade proposed earlier in this thread.

I'm open to offers, though....

 

[mac1911]

so called old "crappy rusted gun" like antigue furniture get more if you leave them alone......I would want to shoot it.
you could even take a lot of pics of all the markings and send it off to the cmp. They can tell you what you have and a value.

 

[pmclaine]

Looks like you are getting some good info on Culvers. Double edged sword for you. You find out you have a nice rifle but you want to turn it into a shooter which would probably entail destroying its originality.

If you are really determined to shoot (and after all the shooting is all the fun), sell this one to a collector. Buy your self a nice service grade, service grade special or the full rebuild with criterion barrel from CMP. You should have money left over to get ammo or even a shooter grade 03 or 03A3 to fill out your WWII collection.