My KaBoomed AR15, Update May 2nd

[J_Smith]

Send it all to Bushmaster. They might just look into what happened for you to see if there was any failure on their part. If you could send them some ammo with the gun as well I am sure that would help them out. Some companies like to see their failed product from the field just to see if they can somehow improve on it.
I had a 500,000 c.p. cordless flashlight that ignited in my hand while I was using it. I sent it back to the company with a letter and my phone #. Sure enough to my surprise they called me to see how I was using it, weather, how long it took before it went up in smoke, etc.. I talked to the guy for about 20 min. and a week later I got a package in the mail with 2 new lights, charger and a spare housing in-case I broke one.

I emailed Bushmaster and will follow up on it but I do not consider this to be Bushmaster's responsibility. This is the fifth or sixth AR15 I've built and had around 200-300 rnds through it - and while the gun was mostly Bushmaster parts it wasn't a stock rifle.

Bushmaster has a very enlightening post on their FAQ. The following illustrates that this is NOT the first time a decent AR15 has been blown up by subpar ammunition being sold under the premises of being "quality".

Beware the dangers of CHEAP AMMO!
Abstract
"If you shoot enough cheap ammo, it'll happen to you. The rifle is just ticking along, then BAM! The bolt is stuck forward and the magazine blows down out of the rifle. Looking up into the mag. well, you see a crack in the bottom of the bolt carrier. You've just had a case head separation. If you are shooting reloads or surplus ammo, you're out of luck. If you have factory ammo, and the box the shells came in, you can write a letter or call the factory, and they will tell you what to do. We have seen case head failures from overloaded ammo, and from bad brass. There is almost no difference in the result, though. When the case head fails in an AR, the gases flow back into the action. They usually bend or break the extractor, flow along the extractor slot, and crack or break the bottom pad of the bolt carrier. The gases vent out mostly through the mag well, usually wrecking the magazine on the way out. Sometimes the bolt cracks, sometimes it doesn't. In extreme cases, it can crack or break the barrel extension. Many times the bolt catch will break off and the upper receiver will crack by the ejection port. Usually the lower will survive, but sometimes they crack somewhere at the top of the mag well, usually in the front. The front half of the case will remain stuck in the chamber. This is a sure sign of an ammunition failure. If the rifle had failed, the bolt lugs would all be sheared off, the stock would be blown off, the gun would probably be blown in half. We've never seen it happen, and we hope we never do."

 

[Nickle]

It is a standard practice for the Gun Makers to recommend not using reloaded ammo or surplus ammo. This is a legal issue, since it reduces their liability.

I thought about this some last night, I seriously think you may have gotten a cartridge with a high primer, and likely the wrong brand. That could give you a slamfire, which is the most likely way to get an AR fire out of battery. Another possibility is the ammo maker used WC 846, with WC 844 data. If you do this, you will get high pressure with the 62 gr bullet. I know this from personal experience and experimentation.

There's a reason why I use Winchester Primers. CCI are also OK, as well as Rem 7 1/2's. They are made with the proper priming compound for a military type semi-auto. Avoid Federal primers in these guns. They're great primers, very accurate, but the priming compound is too sensitive for a military semi-auto.

As I said, I use and recommend Winchester Primers, and the Remington 7 1/2's. I don't care for the quality of the CCI's, and I'm not sure about their cup hardness.

A final note, is to avoid buying reloaded ammo for your semi-auto's from sources that don't understand the info I posted above. My father and I understand this. Ammo we make for the public is loaded down some, to make it safer.

 

[Nickle]

J, thanks for posting that over at the forum I posted on to. I elaborated more over there.

I hope what I posted will help you. Please keep me anonymous, though.

 

[FPrice]

I emailed Bushmaster and will follow up on it but I do not consider this to be Bushmaster's responsibility.

I made the same suggestion. Not because I considered it to be Bushmaster's problem, but as the manufacturer of the receiver they might be able to give you a more definitive answer and more standing if you ever decide to take any future action.

 

[RKG]

I hold no brief for Maine Cartridge Co. (never heard of them before this post), and I haven't examined the rifle in question. That said, the claim is attributed to them that the slug was still in the bore. If that is true, it is pretty good evidence that the primer was ignited with the gun not in battery; whether by the firing pin or slam-fire would require more investigation.

 

[J_Smith]

I hold no brief for Maine Cartridge Co. (never heard of them before this post), and I haven't examined the rifle in question. That said, the claim is attributed to them that the slug was still in the bore. If that is true, it is pretty good evidence that the primer was ignited with the gun not in battery; whether by the firing pin or slam-fire would require more investigation.

Bushmaster currently has the firearm and their analysis was that the rifle fired in battery from damage to the bolt, bolt carrier, and the barrel extension being cracked. They concluded it was a case head failure iirc. The rifle is still in Maine. I'm currently in NYC but will update here when I get the rifle back. I also have a nice angry letter and or FAX to send to MCC when I get home. Not sure if a lawyer is worth it - since most wont handle small cases and I wasn't physically injured. Hopefully for the sake of its consumer base, MCC owns up to being responsible.

 

[rag]

I've heard nothing but bad things about MCC.
Did you ask Bushmaster if they in fact do use MCC ammo for testing?

 

[J_Smith]

Bushmasters Response

Letter recieved from Bushmaster's Technical Section

Dear Sir,

On inspection of your rifle, we found that the only Bushmaster component was the stripped lower reciever.

The inspection did show that the headspace was within specification. Firing pin protrusion checked OK. Bolt Measured OK.

A squib round was found in the bore that caused the cartridge case head to fail due to the subsequent pressure in the bore forcing back through the action when the bolt unlocked.

The rear of the lugs on the bolt have impressions on them from the barrel extension showing the the bolt was closed and locked when the cartridge was fired and the excess pressure was produced.

The AR type rifles cannot fire out of battery as the firing pin stop in the bolt carrier does not allow for firing pin protrusion until the bolt is closed and locked on a round.

The only way that a round can fire ouf of battery, which did not occur in this case, is if a primer was faulty, improperly installed or there was a piece of foreign material between the bolt and the primer setting it off.


Estimated Cost of repair Serial #__________

Stripped V Match Upper - $151.95
AR bolt carrier with key - $92.50
Bolt Assembly - $56
Stripped Charging Handle - $18
Bol Catch - $5.50
Ejection Port Cover Rod - $1.60
20 round magazine - $24.95
Plus the cost of a replacement barrel - estimated at $245.00 (*for bushmasters not the White Oaks barrel I had)


So that's the verdict. The letter states that only the stripped lower was Bushmaster mfg. They probably traced the lower's serial - which I purchased stripped - but it did have other Bushmaster parts in the gun - just not a complete factory stock rifle. Minor detail which has no bearing on the mishap itself.

Initially, Maine Cartridge Company blamed the rifle after their "technical inspection". Just trying to decide the next course of action now.


In hindsight - some of what Bushmaster states in their analysis is confusing. Wondering if I can get anywhere with MCC using this statement.

 

[Admin]

Wow

 

[JonJ]

Wow

For sure.

 

[Kalahari]

Just skipped to this page, so this might have been previously said/done, but you might want to send Bushmaster's report to MCC and see what they say.

 

[Cabinetman]

Holding rifles off hand, no sling.

I'm in late in this discussion but felt the need to just post a quick point that's been overlooked and that has to do with the "stance" some guys use to support their rifles.

A lot of guys (I've seen them even at Camp Perry) still support the rifle by placing their hands underneath the magazine body. You, obviously, did not and good for you. The reason is obvious if you just look at the bottom of that mag which is blown out. Had you hand been there, it could have been a lot different outcome.

I've read that a lot of guys ( including me ) are no longer placing their hands underneath ANY rifles mag well including the Garand. It, too, has been known to kaboom and blown out the bottom of the mag.

So, boys and girls, just a suggestion that you examine the way you hold (with no sling of course) when you fire off hand.

Glad you're ok. Tough break. Being someone who has had three out-of-battery detonations over the years, all due to bad ammo, I know how scary it an be. BTW, in two cases, I was left holding a door stop. In one case, however, the manufactuer replaced my damaged weapon with a premier shotgun and a bunch of new ammo, too. Needless to say, I'm a big fan of that manufacturer.

Rome

 

[JonJ]

Hey ya Rome. Nice to see you here!
You know, that's exactly how I hold the AR. I don't know when or how I picked that up. I've tried moving my hand forward but I always come back to the mag.

 

[Cross-X]

Hey ya Rome. Nice to see you here!
You know, that's exactly how I hold the AR. I don't know when or how I picked that up. I've tried moving my hand forward but I always come back to the mag.

Have you tried the patented Derek Hoskins reverse choke hold? It's one of his many secrets of bullseye success!

 

[JonJ]

Have you tried the patented Derek Hoskins reverse choke hold? It's one of his many secrets of bullseye success!

Ya know when I was at the range last week testing ammo, I was going to try it but I couldn't exactly remember the hold. It looks awkward but I'm willing to try.

 

[Brent]

This one? That is the hold I use as well. (Derek is even using the trusty virtual eye protection too!)

 

[bpm990d]

In many cases, people that shoot competitively hand load their ammunition. From my perspective I tend to think that my hand loads are quite a bit safer than most mass produced ammunition. Hand loading allows me to personally examine and gauge every single component that is going into the ammunition. It is simply not possible to do that with mass produced ammunition. I’m not saying that I can’t screw up and do something stupid, but I feel pretty comfortable with putting my hand underneath the magazine. However I do wear an Anschutz full finger Top Grip glove.

I would suggest that underneath the magazine is a preferable place to put the left hand for a rifle competitor in High Power, since a barrel letting go at the chamber is far more catastrophic than what happened in this instance. The AR is extremely strong and has an enormous area inside the receiver to vent gas if something does occur. It will handle gas in a much safer way than most modern bolt actions which direct it back into your face. While I’m sure that an injury would have occurred if the shooters hand was underneath the magazine, I would need to see an instance of severe injury to the hand with a rifle letting go in a similar fashion; to change my position. I’ve been shooting for quite a while and have not seen or heard of serious injury. If you know of such a case please let me know.

The nice thing about shooting the AR is that if you blow your hand off; you still have the other one to scratch yourself and pick your nose.

Brian

 

[Cross-X]

Have you tried the patented Derek Hoskins reverse choke hold? It's one of his many secrets of bullseye success!

Part of the secret Derek will never reveal is that he had to have plastic surgery to get his wrist to bend that way...

 

[FPrice]

This one? That is the hold I use as well. (Derek is even using the trusty virtual eye protection too!)

Is that the Zen hold w/finger on trigger and eyes closed?

 

[TonyD]

Is that the Zen hold w/finger on trigger and eyes closed?

That's called checking the Natural Point Of Aim.

 

[TonyD]

I would suggest that underneath the magazine is a preferable place to put the left hand for a rifle competitor in High Power, since a barrel letting go at the chamber is far more catastrophic than what happened in this instance. The AR is extremely strong and has an enormous area inside the receiver to vent gas if something does occur. Brian

I agree with your assumption that those of us who hand load have notably safer ammo. Also, I don't think anyone would be shooting in that (offhand) position with the type ammo he was using.

Under the mag. grip is good for the M-14 shooters but is not as stable with the M-16 (most people find). However, you have to realize that the M-16 is designed to vent pressure out the magazine bottom in catastrophic events like this.

 

[Cross-X]

Is that the Zen hold w/finger on trigger and eyes closed?

Frosty, I think that method will work about as well for you as what you are doing right now.

 

[FPrice]

That's called checking the Natural Point Of Aim.

I've used the same technique with one minor change; I keep my finger off the trigger until I am ready to shoot (with my eyes open).

 

[bpm990d]

I agree with your assumption that those of us who hand load have notably safer ammo. Also, I don't think anyone would be shooting in that (offhand) position with the type ammo he was using.

Under the mag. grip is good for the M-14 shooters but is not as stable with the M-16 (most people find). However, you have to realize that the M-16 is designed to vent pressure out the magazine bottom in catastrophic events like this.

Let me start out by saying that I’m glad that it didn’t happen to me. ;-) I’m sure that my hand would have been injured. However it doesn’t look like it would have blown my fingers off.

I’ve seen an M700 300WM that let go and it burst the receiver ring and blew the barrel just like the cartoons. It would have blown someone’s fingers/hand off if they had a grip close to the receiver ring. Thankfully the shooter was slung up in the prone position. It was like 52 pick up after the thing let go. The above failure was more like 25 pick up.

Shooting guns can be dangerous and I don’t necessarily agree that holding a particular rifle one way or the other is any less dangerous than another. Certainly, in the above circumstance it was better that the shooter was in the sitting position, but like I have said, I have not heard of a serious injury to a shooters hand being caused by a failure while shooting in the standing position. If someone knows of one, please do let us know, because I would certainly reconsider my off hand position.

Also from the report, it sounded like there was a bullet lodged in the barrel? Was it in fact a squib round? It that was the case, it most likely would not have occurred if the shooter was shooting slow fire.

Brian

 

[bpm990d]

I've used the same technique with one minor change; I keep my finger off the trigger until I am ready to shoot (with my eyes open).

There is nothing unusual about the picture of Derek. My guess is that he just checking his natural point of aim. I have no problem with his finger being on the trigger. If he were to change the position of his finger and extended it along the lower receiver, it would have dramatically changed his grip and natural point of aim.

I have shot NPA exercises where we would dry fire with our eyes closed. We would establish a NPA, take up slack of first stage, close my eyes, take a couple of breaths, squeeze trigger. Open eyes, check where the front sight is. I’ve also done the same exercise with live ammo.

Brian

 

[Nickle]

I agree with your assumption that those of us who hand load have notably safer ammo. Also, I don't think anyone would be shooting in that (offhand) position with the type ammo he was using.

Under the mag. grip is good for the M-14 shooters but is not as stable with the M-16 (most people find). However, you have to realize that the M-16 is designed to vent pressure out the magazine bottom in catastrophic events like this.

I concur on the ammo. We all make mistakes, or get a bad component sooner or later though.

The M14 will also vent into the mag.

I know from personal experience. I KB'd mine a couple years back. Good thing my hand wasn't on the mag. It ended up twice the proper width after. As it was, the ER bill was $300.00.

 

[Nickle]

Just skipped to this page, so this might have been previously said/done, but you might want to send Bushmaster's report to MCC and see what they say.

The lad is smart. This is exactly the proper thing to do.

 

[TonyD]

I've used the same technique with one minor change; I keep my finger off the trigger until I am ready to shoot (with my eyes open).

As already mentioned, checking the NPOA with the finger in a different position will change the NPOA. My rifle is always on safe during that time and also between shots. I even click to safe during a mag change in the sustained fire. I know some HP shooters forget the rifle even has a safety - they just don't use it. However, I've yet to see an AD (although I'm sure it has happened at some point).

Also, Frosty, keep in mind that most of that is done during the prep period when you're checking NPOA and taking a few dry fire shots.

 

[Admin]

We would establish a NPA, take up slack of first stage, close my eyes, take a couple of breaths, squeeze trigger. Open eyes, check where the front sight is.

Brian

We have a winner.

 

[J_Smith]

I faxed MCC a copy of the Bushmaster findings along with my own cover letter today. I also sent a certified copy of this with mandatory return receipt. Ball is in their court now. I'll update when or if I receive a response from them - namely their registered agent for their corporation. I had my friend at a Maine legal office give me some tips so hopefully they listen the first time.