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My first 1911 is someone's old bullseye gun--now to fix it?

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Machines

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Decided to dip my toe into the 1911 waters this morning and ended up with a real oddball. It's a circa-1992 Norinco that someone turned into an oldschool bullseye pistol. Emphasis on oldschool--the rear sight appears to be pre-1965.

-Shark fin and unblended Bo-Mar target sights
-Dwyer Group Gripper full-lenth two-peice guide rod/link assy
-Extremely tight NM bushing
-Adjustable trigger
-Houge grips

Anyway, I missed the full extent of a couple issues when I bought it and now I'm wondering what the NES brain trust's opinion is on fixing the thing. First is that the fire control is all out of whack--both safeties allow too much sear travel and the hammer's sear notch isn't right. Second is that the barrel feet don't match up with the link height and I think there's excessive endplay at the breech. Original Norinco cheese barrel so no great loss, but still.

Norks used to be known as good build candidates and I like its character, but I don't know much about the world of 1911 tuning. Any thoughts on where to go from here? This was supposed to be a budget gun for me but I sense that'll go out the window by the time it's working correctly.


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it's gonna cost a little to do that work, with the safety and sear getting priority. i own a norinco myself, bought it off my boss in 1995 for the princely sum of $62. i gave it to a friend when he was studying gunsmithing to work on so it has an adjustable trigger and trigger job, wilson combat sights, beavertail grip safety and an extended guide rod. it still retains the original barrel. a few years ago i gave it to lou biondo to gussy up a bit, had him change the rear sight and cerakote it and clean up the action a bit. i love this gun and shoot it all the time. if you can, put a little money into it and enjoy it.
 
Drop it off with Lou at Business End Customs and spend somr $ to get back a really nice gun. He does some amazing work from basic traditional style to very fancy. You can find some of his work in the gallery section under Business End Customs.
 
Nope, original Norinco barrel that doesn't lock up great. I paid more than $62 for since it wasn't advertised as a project, so this'd be an expensive Norinco when it's done.
 
Personally, I would be reluctant to put a bunch of money into it.... Not becuase its a bad gun or anything like that, but becuase you will never ever see any of that money back of you decide to sell it. I would make it safe and get it to be a good shooter and leave it at that.

I've done work with Lou, but only on M&P's. The gunsmith I use for 1911's is out in Arizona.
 
Greg Derr is another good choice of smiths.

I'd try to keep the cost sane relative to the cost/value of the base gun - perhaps a sight like Novak that does not require slide milling, plus fixing up the safety/sear.
 
Take it to a good 1911 plumber.

Greg Derr has done some good work on mine. Show him you know is wrong with it and ask him what he can do to fix it while keeping the spending under control. I expect that he can give you an estimate quickly and several alternatives, depending upon how much you want to spend.
 
Machines said:
I'd almost feel funny bothering Greg with something this crude. Every gun I've seen him do is an heirloom.
Click to expand...

No what 1911 said, he does good work and he is a businessman. A businessman does not turn away business.

Norincos have decent reputations for what they were and were good entry level 1911s and good platforms for custom jobs. From my perspective there is a law of diminishing return here. How much do you want to spend fixing this gun up?

Ruger and Remington make some darn good 1911s with great features that would have been considered custom 10 or 15 years ago right out of the box at a decent price.

Something to think about. On the other hand good sights and a good trigger won't set you back that much and depending on what you paid for the gun, you could still come out ahead, just don't get crazy with a lot of bells and whistles IMO.
 
That's the question for me. Remingtons and Rugers are $500 all day long in the classifieds. I paid $425 for this because it's all ye olde blued machined forgings, plus the novelty factor, but that was when it was supposed to be in good working condition. I'm not sure what the crossover point is between fixing and selling it. Needs work on both safties, sear, hammer, and the barrel either needs fitting or replacing.
 
Machines said:
That's the question for me. Remingtons and Rugers are $500 all day long in the classifieds. I paid $425 for this because it's all ye olde blued machined forgings, plus the novelty factor, but that was when it was supposed to be in good working condition. I'm not sure what the crossover point is between fixing and selling it. Needs work on both safties, sear, hammer, and the barrel either needs fitting or replacing.
Click to expand...

Only way to find out is to take it to someone like Greg Derr and ask him what it would cost to set it straight as cheaply as possible.
 
Well, this keeps getting more interesting. I was looking at the slide and I noticed the left-hand side is bowed outwards near the lock notch. How the hell does that even happen? I didn't notice it because of the group-gripper's spring but when that's taken out the front of the slide has a ton of shake because of the bend.

Granted I'd never owned a 1911 before so I blew the inspection when I bought it, but this is distinctly not "in excellent condition"...
 
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Sucks that the gun was advertised to be in excellent condition and turned out to be anything but. I'd be pretty pissed.
 
I'm not a fan of Full Length Guide Rods, I would personally replace it with a GI Guide Rod from Wilson Combat. I would pick up a 16.5lb recoil spring made by Wolff.

Have you fired it yet? If not, take a note of which direction the brass is going and if it is uniform with all the brass you fire. The extractor is something you need to pay attention to on a 1911.

Chip McOrmick and Wilson Combat make great mags for the 1911. I have a collection of both CMC Power Mags and Wilson Combat 47D magazines. Please don't polish the feed ramp, changing the geometry of the ramp is bad juju.

There are lots of resources for new 1911 owners. Good luck with your new girl :)
 
Navy Moose said:
I'm not a fan of Full Length Guide Rods, I would personally replace it with a GI Guide Rod from Wilson Combat.
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Agreed.

Chip McOrmick and Wilson Combat make great mags for the 1911. I have a collection of both CMC Power Mags and Wilson Combat 47D magazines.
Click to expand...

I prefer the Wilson ETM mag. The body is longer, making it easier to seat on a closed slide.
 
I talked with a few of our resident gunsmiths, and the general consensus seems to be it could be the start of a custom build but just fixing it might not be worth it. I could put another $400 into this to make it safe to shoot. As I told the seller when I was asking about the condition, a project was what I was hoping to avoid.
 
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1911s sell for really good money in MA. Most of the market is artificial based on the AGs list... You may not have overspent as much as you think you have. Fixing it up shouldn't be a huge deal and you can always go in stages. This approach will let you get to know the gun and figure out exactly what you want.

Anyway, take it in stages. I would prioritize based on what you know. The gun was built circa '92 and some of the work looks potentially suspect. The first priority is to establish safety (yours and the frame) and function. I would suggest having a good smith tear it down and verify parts are properly fitted while replacing all springs. Springs are actually really easy, but determining all parts are properly fitted is more complicated. Once you know the gun is safe and reliable - the rest is up to you. Putting on some nice blended modern sights, a good trigger job, match barrel/bushing, and general slide/frame tightening up, and finish will go along way.

I personally like Dave Santurri (south shore) - I'm sure others are also good. Dave has done great work and he completes it quickly. In the past, He has worked on 1911s, S&W revolvers, and ARs. Lets just talk about the 1911s - he built on old USGI frame and a Kimber for me as well as something similar to yours for my father.

The old USGI is a MEUSOC like 1911 on a USGI Colt frame that needed love. I got the frame for a song because a really bad smith had removed a little to much metal around the grip safety (supposedly in the '80s). Dave fixed the issue, put on a really tight Caspian slide, a Kart NM barrel, Wilson internals, Bo-Mar sights, etc... This gun is a lot of fun, accurate, and my favorite 1911. When I moved to NH, this gun was not for sale.

He also rebuilt my first handgun - a Kimber Classic Stainless (Series 1) to actually shoot straight and reliably. This gun went back to Kimber four times and they couldn't make it reliable. I asked Dave to make it reliable, replace the MIM parts (Wilson), and barrel/bushing (Kart NM). If I was going to put a few dollars into it, I wanted it to be extremely reliable and accurate. When complete, this gun had an incredibly crisp trigger - surprisingly so. It also never hiccuped again. It shot great out to 50 yards. I really dug this gun, but another NE Shooters member (still in MA) owns it now.

More recently, my father purchased a Caspian 1911 in a condition similar to your Norinco. His Caspian was purchased from a member of his club. Dave went through it and found/worked through a few minor issues. This guns is reliable, looks great, and is a lot of fun to shoot.

Anyway, I'm sure your Norinco can become an incredible gun. Take a look at what various custom guns produced by name brand smiths like Les Baer, Wilson, or Ed Brown cost. While you can't own these brands, you can probably get something at least as nice for less money overall. The big question becomes what do you want?

Best,
Anthony
 
Norinco 1911's make an excellent starting point for a custom gun that you are going to keep. I say that because as you probably know, resale value isn't there (even though the gun is as good and probably better than the current "must have" 1911).
Many, many were made into bullseye guns. Smiths love working on them because the steel is very hard. There is/was one nationally famous custom shop (can't remember who right now) who would only work one two or three brands of 1911's and Norinco was one of them.

I have one as a Bullseye gun.
 
agabriel said:
1911s sell for really good money in MA. Most of the market is artificial based on the AGs list... Y
Click to expand...

Most of the people in MA who are really into 1911s laugh at the "AG list" / compliance stuff.

I listed my "Caspian Auto Ordnance Mutt Gun" on here for like $400 for 2 weeks and nobody bought it. I took this as an omen that I should just keep the gun
instead, and I did... So while SOME 1911s go for good money, others, not so much.. make it ugly enough and nobody will buy it, LOL.

-Mike

- - - Updated - - -

Machines said:
I talked with a few of our resident gunsmiths, and the general consensus seems to be it could be the start of a custom build but just fixing it might not be worth it. I could put another $400 into this to make it safe to shoot. As I told the seller when I was asking about the condition, a project was what I was hoping to avoid.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but you ended up with a project gun. It's probably worth dumping 200-400 bucks into it and just keeping the thing. If the work is done right it'll be worth it.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
Most of the people in MA who are really into 1911s laugh at the "AG list" / compliance stuff.

I listed my "Caspian Auto Ordnance Mutt Gun" on here for like $400 for 2 weeks and nobody bought it. I took this as an omen that I should just keep the gun
instead, and I did... So while SOME 1911s go for good money, others, not so much.. make it ugly enough and nobody will buy it, LOL.

-Mike
Click to expand...

Mike - I can't speak for everyones taste, but I did alright selling a stock Colt Government Series 70 and a Kimber. Both were sold in less than 24 hours of being posted here.

I also hope you didn't describe your 1911 as a "Caspian Auto Ordinance Mutt Gun"... If it is made of quality parts, well built, and in MA, it is special. People are into difficult to obtain things; you don't have to sell to the person really into 1911s just with the cash to afford them.
 
drgrant said:
Yeah, but you ended up with a project gun. It's probably worth dumping 200-400 bucks into it and just keeping the thing. If the work is done right it'll be worth it.

-Mike
Click to expand...

$700+ for a Norinco with a loose barrel, bowed slide, and 1950s target sights while I can get a mint Ruger SR1911 for $500?
 
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