My daughter wants to carry pepper spray

[kiver]

My daughter is 15 and will be applying for her FID. We just had a long conversation about her friend and how she was raped when she was 10 She wants to be able to carry pepper spray. I just spent a few minutes looking for info on this but wanted to post this here as there is always Is more to the law of what she can and can’t do and I am not really getting anywhere. I just want to be as thorough as I can with her on the responsibility this holds

Thank you

 

[appraiser]

All the law I just read dealt with purchasing, over 18 no FID card needed, 15 to 18 FID needed TO PURCHASE.....

I can find no clear writing as to POSSESSION by a minor without a FID.

My best advice would be to have her apply for a F.I.D., only as a CYA move if nothing else.

 

[appraiser]

background: Women's Self Defense Boston | Pepper Spray

 

[Len-2A Training]

Wrt MGL, she'd be legal with an FID. However, it may not be legal on any school property without written permission from the head of the school (that's what's written in MGL wrt carrying guns).

In any case, she should not flaunt it and nobody else should ever see it unless they are being sprayed.

 

[kiver]

The school piece is a great concern to me. With the way things are going with online school and hybrid education there should be no need for her to take it to school. My kid has a real good head on her and I have told her that misuse could land her in juvie

 

[Coyote33]

My daughter is 17, and has had it since maybe 15 or so. I think she keeps it in a largish orange/brown pill bottle in the top pocket of her backpack. She knows to keep it there, and it is if she gets abducted or accosted. I told her to take it out and keep it in her hand when she is in a parking lot at night or anywhere alone other than maybe the grocery store. She is VERY responsible with it, and I trust her completely. I suppose it is getting old and in need of replacement soon. We should probably take it into the woods and do a "test spray" to see how it works. She may want a slightly different one the next time around. I think this one is pepper and mace together.

 

[Twigg]

"I can find no law to permit this." the preceding is a quote from a massachtwoshits prosecutor from a case I can't remember. Look hard enough and you might get lucky and find it.

Remember, in massachtwoshits laws define permitted acts. I'm free states laws define criminal acts. Good luck.

 

[appraiser]

(9A) Except as provided in paragraph (9B), the fee for an application for a firearm identification card shall be $100, which shall be payable to the licensing authority and shall not be prorated or refunded in the case of revocation or denial. The licensing authority shall retain $25 of the fee; $50 of the fee shall be deposited in the General Fund; and $25 of the fee shall be deposited in the Firearms Fingerprint Identity Verification Trust Fund. Notwithstanding any general or special law to the contrary, licensing authorities shall deposit quarterly that portion of the firearm identification card application fee which is to be deposited into the General Fund, not later than January 1, April 1, July 1 and October 1 of each year.


[First paragraph of paragraph (9B) effective until January 1, 2021. For text effective January 1, 2021, see below.]





(9B) The application fee for a firearm identification card issued pursuant to clause (vi) of section 122D for the sole purpose of purchasing or possessing chemical mace, pepper spray or other similarly propelled liquid, gas or powder designed to temporarily incapacitate shall be $25, which shall be payable to the licensing authority and shall not be prorated or refunded in the case of revocation or denial. The licensing authority shall retain 50 per cent of the fee and the remaining portion shall be deposited in the General Fund. Notwithstanding any general or special law to the contrary, licensing authorities shall deposit quarterly that portion of the firearm identification card application fee which is to be deposited into the General Fund, not later than January 1, April 1, July 1 and October 1 of each year. There shall be no application fee for the renewal of a firearm identification card issued under this paragraph.


[First paragraph of paragraph (9B) as amended by 2014, 284, Sec. 35B effective January 1, 2021. See 2014, 284, Sec. 112. For text effective until January 1, 2021, see above.]





(9B) The application fee for a firearm identification card issued for the sole purpose of purchasing or possessing chemical mace, pepper spray or other similarly propelled liquid, gas or powder designed to temporarily incapacitate shall be $25, which shall be payable to the licensing authority and shall not be prorated or refunded in the case of revocation or denial. The licensing authority shall retain 50 per cent of the fee and the remaining portion shall be deposited in the General Fund. Notwithstanding any general or special law to the contrary, licensing authorities shall deposit quarterly that portion of the firearm identification card application fee which is to be deposited into the General Fund, not later than January 1, April 1, July 1 and October 1 of each year. There shall be no application fee for the renewal of a firearm identification card issued under this paragraph.


A firearm identification card issued under this paragraph shall display, in clear and conspicuous language, that the card shall be valid only for the purpose of purchasing or possessing chemical mace, pepper spray or other similarly propelled liquid, gas or powder designed to temporarily incapacitate.


(9C) Except as provided in paragraph (9B), the fee for an application for a firearm identification card for any person under the age of 18 shall be $25, which shall be payable to the licensing authority and shall not be prorated or refunded in the case of revocation or denial. The licensing authority shall retain 50 per cent of the fee and the remaining portion shall be deposited into the General Fund. Notwithstanding any general or special law to the contrary, licensing authorities shall deposit quarterly that portion of the firearm identification card application fee which is to be deposited into the General Fund, not later than January 1, April 1, July 1 and October 1 of each year.

 

[Coyote33]

TLDR.
;-)

 

[kiver]

(9A) Except as provided in paragraph (9B), the fee for an application for a firearm identification card shall be $100, which shall be payable to the licensing authority and shall not be prorated or refunded in the case of revocation or denial. The licensing authority shall retain $25 of the fee; $50 of the fee shall be deposited in the General Fund; and $25 of the fee shall be deposited in the Firearms Fingerprint Identity Verification Trust Fund. Notwithstanding any general or special law to the contrary, licensing authorities shall deposit quarterly that portion of the firearm identification card application fee which is to be deposited into the General Fund, not later than January 1, April 1, July 1 and October 1 of each year.


[First paragraph of paragraph (9B) effective until January 1, 2021. For text effective January 1, 2021, see below.]





(9B) The application fee for a firearm identification card issued pursuant to clause (vi) of section 122D for the sole purpose of purchasing or possessing chemical mace, pepper spray or other similarly propelled liquid, gas or powder designed to temporarily incapacitate shall be $25, which shall be payable to the licensing authority and shall not be prorated or refunded in the case of revocation or denial. The licensing authority shall retain 50 per cent of the fee and the remaining portion shall be deposited in the General Fund. Notwithstanding any general or special law to the contrary, licensing authorities shall deposit quarterly that portion of the firearm identification card application fee which is to be deposited into the General Fund, not later than January 1, April 1, July 1 and October 1 of each year. There shall be no application fee for the renewal of a firearm identification card issued under this paragraph.


[First paragraph of paragraph (9B) as amended by 2014, 284, Sec. 35B effective January 1, 2021. See 2014, 284, Sec. 112. For text effective until January 1, 2021, see above.]





(9B) The application fee for a firearm identification card issued for the sole purpose of purchasing or possessing chemical mace, pepper spray or other similarly propelled liquid, gas or powder designed to temporarily incapacitate shall be $25, which shall be payable to the licensing authority and shall not be prorated or refunded in the case of revocation or denial. The licensing authority shall retain 50 per cent of the fee and the remaining portion shall be deposited in the General Fund. Notwithstanding any general or special law to the contrary, licensing authorities shall deposit quarterly that portion of the firearm identification card application fee which is to be deposited into the General Fund, not later than January 1, April 1, July 1 and October 1 of each year. There shall be no application fee for the renewal of a firearm identification card issued under this paragraph.


A firearm identification card issued under this paragraph shall display, in clear and conspicuous language, that the card shall be valid only for the purpose of purchasing or possessing chemical mace, pepper spray or other similarly propelled liquid, gas or powder designed to temporarily incapacitate.


(9C) Except as provided in paragraph (9B), the fee for an application for a firearm identification card for any person under the age of 18 shall be $25, which shall be payable to the licensing authority and shall not be prorated or refunded in the case of revocation or denial. The licensing authority shall retain 50 per cent of the fee and the remaining portion shall be deposited into the General Fund. Notwithstanding any general or special law to the contrary, licensing authorities shall deposit quarterly that portion of the firearm identification card application fee which is to be deposited into the General Fund, not later than January 1, April 1, July 1 and October 1 of each year.

My understanding is an FID for anyone under 18 is $25. Has this changed again?

 

[AHM]

In any case, she should not flaunt it and nobody else should ever see it unless they are being sprayed.

Which I find ironic, since the second time I was aware that
I was in the presence of a non-cop/non-postman packing a spray
was a coed I saw at the SUNY Cobleskill Old Home/Open House weekend,
wearing it in a leather pouch, dangling as a necklace.

It practically screamed "this spray blinds rapists",
if I may misquote Pete F'ing Seeger.

(The first time was a camping friend of the family
with an ostensibly illegal-in-NYS "tear gas pen").

My kid has a real good head on her and I have told her that misuse could land her in juvie

That kind of Fear-O'-God line is pretty good.
Another one is, "if you get caught we'll be sued and we'll lose the house".

The point isn't to inhibit justified use.
The point is to prevent brandishing and "check this out" with "friends".

Not saying your daughter doesn't have a real good head on her.
Jus' sayin'...

My daughter is 17, and has had it since maybe 15 or so. I think she keeps it in a largish orange/brown pill bottle in the top pocket of her backpack.

"Large pill bottle"?

Talk about a container that screams "investigate further!"
to any (say) school cop choosing to search her backpack.

(And "steal me" to any addict looking for a fix,
but if she's got junkies rifling through her pack,
she's already got bigger problems than
having to buy a replacement pepper spray).

Maybe rethink the camouflage/access tradeoffs.
Just don't leave any part visible - especially not the clip
sneaking outside the pocket. Countless people in NYC have been
jacked up for carrying boring pocket knives because they had to be
tacticool and clip the knife into their pocket.
Cops dig that the most.

 

[appraiser]

that is how I read 9C, 25 dollars if under 18

 

[Coyote33]

"Large pill bottle"?

Talk about a container that screams "investigate further!"
to any (say) school cop choosing to search her backpack.

Lighten up, Frances. It is an empty bottle, that is see-through with no label. It is a container, to prevent it from accidentally spraying.

 

[AHM]

Lighten up, Frances. It is an empty bottle, that is see-through with no label. It is a container, to prevent it from accidentally spraying.

Maybe buy a spray with a built-in safety.

 

[Rick O'Shea]

Have her stay upwind,..

 

[kiver]

Have her stay upwind,..

Yes we talked about that

 

[chrbla2000]

One thing I did with my daughter was to pick up an extra pepper spray can, put target up in our backyard, and have her 'attack' it with the spray can. It gave her an idea of how much spray is actually in the can and what the blow-back does to the person spraying the can. We did this with traditional spray and with gel-spray.

-chris

 

[late08]

Its sad this even has to be a question. I guess its the GOP's "war on women"?

 

[Coyote33]

Its sad this even has to be a question. I guess its the GOP's "war on women"?

#metoo

I thought they removed all impediments to women defending themselves with pepper spraya few years ago.

 

[Cowgirlup]

Invest in some self defense training. Just like a firearm she may not always have time to get the pepper spray out and ready to deploy.
Situational awareness, improvised weapons and knowing how to fight from a disadvantage are good skills to have.

 

[Buck F]

The point isn't to inhibit justified use.
The point is to prevent brandishing and "check this out" with "friends".

Ok, show of hands... how many of us did this when we were younger and regretted it?

Never took a direct shot to the face but a squirt on my shoulder was enough to incapacitate the 20something year old me.

 

[In God We Trust]

I agree with the FID, but I don’t think you will find many cops that would jam her up for it unless It was in conjunction with some other shady stuff.

If your daughter is not likely to be involved in any nonsense, just buy it for her. I would. It’s basically hot sauce

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Wrt MGL, she'd be legal with an FID. However, it may not be legal on any school property without written permission from the head of the school (that's what's written in MGL wrt carrying guns).

In any case, she should not flaunt it and nobody else should ever see it unless they are being sprayed.

What? A NES poster who actually admits that an answer to a question is unclear and unresolvable a-priori. You must have skipped "expert by assertion" school.

I agree with the FID, but I don’t think you will find many cops that would jam her up for it unless It was in conjunction with some other shady stuff.

Despite the fact that many MA colleges have fully sworn police departments with all the immunity and power that brings, they are none the less beholding to the school for their paychecks and can/will enforce and interpret the law in the way the school wishes as long as it is not clearly unlawful. What I am not sure of is to what extent sowrn campus police can use their police powers to enforce school policy that goes beyond law.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

My understanding is an FID for anyone under 18 is $25. Has this changed again?

I think the /"restricted FID" (sprays only) is $25; the regular one allowing kind and gentle low cap rifles/shotguns is $100. [corrected by Lens - both are $25 for under 18 persons]

 

[Len-2A Training]

What? A NES poster who actually admits that an answer to a question is unclear and unresolvable a-priori. You must have skipped "expert by assertion" school.

Despite the fact that many MA colleges have fully sworn police departments with all the immunity and power that brings, they are none the less beholding to the school for their paychecks and can/will enforce and interpret the law in the way the school wishes as long as it is not clearly unlawful. What I am not sure of is to what extent sowrn campus police can use their police powers to enforce school policy that goes beyond law.

Having worked for BCPD for 7 or 8 yrs and being friends with their (now retired) police prosecutor, relative to "police powers" and enforcing school policy:
- They will work with school admin to suspend/expel a student who violates school policy,
- They will work with school admin to withhold grades to any student who was fined and didn't pay the fines (e.g. parking tickets on campus, fines for pulling fire alarms/using fire extingushers for non-fires, damaging property, etc.).

It's really quite effective and a lot quicker than running thru a court system. And they have their own kangaroo courts if you appeal.

I think the /"restricted FID" (sprays only) is $25; the regular one allowing kind and gentle low cap rifles/shotguns is $100.

Gotcha my friend! FID restricted or "regular" is only $25 if under 18 yo. However, the one for chemicals only (restricted) does not require any class. The one for guns and/or chemicals, if you take an LTC class will allow you to get an LTC at age 21 without re-taking a class (at least by most PDs).

 

[Coyote33]

Some history, lots of reading:
H.2403 An Act Relative to Nonlethal Defensive Sprays (Rep. Jones)
S.1226 An Act to Remove Pepper Spray from Firearms Identification (Senator Ross)
S.1236 An Act to Allow Citizens Possession of Non-lethal Protection (Senator Timilty)
H.1578 An Act Relative to Increasing Accessibility to Non-lethal Self Defense Sprays (Rep. Toomey)
H.658 An Act Relative to Peppers Spray (Rep. Sannicandro)

Bill To Make Buying Pepper Spray, Mace Easier In Mass. Stuck In Legislative Limbo

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/02/21/bill-to-make-buying-pepper-spray-mace-easier-in-mass-stuck-in-legislative-limbo/ Boy they hate anyone that is not a sheep.

www.northeastshooters.com

The pepper spray bill

The bill has made it out of the house of rep. It is now in the senate and still needs our support. This part of a info package it lists the bill # and the relevant sections of the bill along with how to find your rep. Bill #4038 A bill to enhance the protection of domestic violence...

www.northeastshooters.com

Senate votes to remove FID requirement for pepper spray

Check it out here http://www.lowellsun.com/breakingnews/ci_25815925/senate-votes-remove-fid-requirement-pepper-spray

www.northeastshooters.com

Budget Bill and Pepper Spray

I heard that the governer signed the budget bill into law today. I had also heard that the pepper-spray-is-not-ammuniton ammendment was in there. Does anyone know if it was or still is? The HB 4121/4285 thing kind of overshadowed the whole thing and makes searching really difficult.

www.northeastshooters.com

pepper spray: for sale or not?

The wife asked me where someone she knows might be able to buy pepper spray. I named I think 3 local gun shops, and also said maybe Dick's or Walmart, but not sure if they have this just yet, especially Walmart. Anyhow, this person went to a local gun shop, and they refused to sell to them...

www.northeastshooters.com

 

[Rob Boudrie]

It's really quite effective and a lot quicker than running thru a court system. And they have their own kangaroo courts if you appeal.

I was really wondering of campus PDs use their police power to enforce school policy - like searching a car or dwelling based on reasonable suspicion that a school policy but not law, is being broken .... or searching a student's room based on a letter of authorization from the school rather than a court issued warrant.

Things like keeping records of internal tickets, withholding grades, are stuff any REMF could do. I'm thinking about stuff that actually requires "police power". For example, a police officer cannot just confiscate dissident literature absent evidence of criminal activity, though campus thought codes may prohibit possession of such or consider it evidence of "holding an unapproved viewpoint". Would campus police (sworn variety) use their police power to enforce school policy and forcibly confiscate something that is legal but prohibited by the school?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Gotcha my friend! FID restricted or "regular" is only $25 if under 18 yo. However, the one for chemicals only (restricted) does not require any class. The one for guns and/or chemicals, if you take an LTC class will allow you to get an LTC at age 21 without re-taking a class (at least by most PDs).

My post was correct because I started it with "I think", so it was impossible for me to be wrong unless I lied about that.

But, thanks for the correction.

 

[AHM]

Ok, show of hands... how many of us did this when we were younger and regretted it?

(As I probably wrote elsewhere), around JHS age I picked up a discarded medium-sized can
with large plastic belt clip that I've always assumed was tossed by a letter carrier.
And immediately got some trace material in an eye...

I was really wondering of campus PDs use their police power to enforce school policy - like searching a car or dwelling based on reasonable suspicion that a school policy but not law, is being broken .... or searching a student's room based on a letter of authorization from the school rather than a court issued warrant.

There must be infinite amounts of case law, anecdotes, etc. dating back to the 60's.

But here's a generic little 8-yo video with an interesting anecdote near the end:
Flex Your Rights: Protecting Your Rights in a College Dorm

 

[Len-2A Training]

The following was told to me by the person involved (expelled from NU) back in the late 1960s.

He said that campus police searched his room (dorm) and found something that students shouldn't possess (not drugs or guns). They then expelled this person from the university.

I knew the kid and regardless of the validity of what occurred, it was a good thing that he was expelled. He did a number of things that put a number of us in a dangerous position.