Multiple victims in Oxford High School shooting, Oakland County Sheriff confirms

Parents are in custody.


They’re so stupid. They were never going to stay on the run long with how visible those case is. If they turned themselves in, they’d get bailed out quickly. Where they took out money and evaded police, they may not get bail now because they’re a flight risk. They also probably picked up a new charge for evading.

It also makes them even less sympathetic and their trial will be in Michigan were people probably have a very poor view of them.
 

"According to the charges filed, in the hours before the shooting they had been urgently summoned to the school, because a teacher had discovered that Crumbley had drawn images of a gun that had been fired at a fallen body, with the added inscriptions, “Blood everywhere” and “The thoughts won’t stop. Help me.”

This was probably the tip-off. Yes, any school administrator or staff mental health councilor is not going to risk their job making a call to expel or suspend a kid without strong written policy from the School Board.

I expect Michigan will move to enact a Red Flag law this year, so that almost anyone in a position of authority can Red Flag someone and the police will get a cookie-cutter ERPO from a judge in hours. In the Oxford case, hours may not have been soon enough to interrupt the chain of events.

Did we have fewer rights that were infringed more often in the 70s when I was in 6th-12th grades? Maybe - but there’s far more school authorities infringing rights now, more parents driving litigious school-community relationships, and more lawyers litigating to no good end. With the battle over whether parents or government have the right to determine educational ideology growing hotter, the kids are left in the crossfire - figuratively and literally.

How would red flags be sold based on this crime? The kid didn’t own the gun and red flagging him wouldn’t do a thing. Legislature in Michigan is GOP controlled, I doubt anything is passed.
 
Report on FOX said wifey ran house and doted on sonny boy, where have we seen this before? No F****** way would I have let kid back in class with out a pat down and search of locker/backpack. If Admin didn't want to do it they should have called PD, advised them of situation and asked for assistance/guidance.
 
Wellllll, I’d say you def like to play it safe.
Pretty sure bet there.
Not really trying to predict anything. Let me rephrase. If this were a work of fiction, it would be more plausible reading if something inside the mother's head wished for it, too.
 
How would red flags be sold based on this crime? The kid didn’t own the gun and red flagging him wouldn’t do a thing. Legislature in Michigan is GOP controlled, I doubt anything is passed.
They e\would Red Flag the parents - just a week or so ago they Red Flaggrd a kid’s uncle as his nephew was bragging he could get guns from his uncle’s place. The LEOs took the uncle’s gun under an ERPO. Red Flags are about taking guns that might be used to harm - not who might do the harming.
 
They e\would Red Flag the parents - just a week or so ago they Red Flaggrd a kid’s uncle as his nephew was bragging he could get guns from his uncle’s place. The LEOs took the uncle’s gun under an ERPO. Red Flags are about taking guns that might be used to harm - not who might do the harming.

I'm not in favor of red-flagging the parents. There are already laws against what they did, which is why they're charged. The fact that they fled shows, among other things, that they are aware that their crimes will have meaningful punishment. They didn't want that punishment, so they fled. So clearly those laws have "teeth."

It's sad and tragic that innocent people died. But it's unconscionable to give the .gov the ability to arbitrarily seize guns based on hearsay, no matter what the situation. If you've got evidence? Make the arrest and prove your case. A "halfway" system in which the State can punish people without adequate judicial oversight is un-American.
 
They e\would Red Flag the parents - just a week or so ago they Red Flaggrd a kid’s uncle as his nephew was bragging he could get guns from his uncle’s place. The LEOs took the uncle’s gun under an ERPO. Red Flags are about taking guns that might be used to harm - not who might do the harming.
Wow. That’s messed up. How about just giving the uncle a heads up on it and then smacking the kid upside the head for being, a kid. We all did some pretty stupid stuff as kids, hell even throughout our 20’s, but we got a boot in the ass for it and told to knock it off, not taken away for psych eval’s and juvi.

Things were so much simpler when people weren’t afraid of discipline and responsibility. We’ve created such a disarray of red tape and a literal shit ton of garbage laws that we’ve crippled ourselves from doing anything normal and without government involvement with the inevitable shitshow that accompanies that.
 
The fact that they fled shows, among other things, that they are aware that their crimes will have meaningful punishment. They didn't want that punishment, so they fled. So clearly those laws have "teeth."

I have read a number of reports that stated that they were in constant contact w/ the Attorney and offered to surrender if warrant was issued, and also that the DA wouldn't return the Attorney's phone call and went straight to the microphone to call them fugitives. Between the shame and fear for their safety, it's not surprising that they were in hiding I wouldn't read much into the whole "fugitive" angle. I have zero problem with them being charged, however this looks to be quite rushed in an effort to appease the mob as has happened in other recent cases.
 
I have read a number of reports that stated that they were in constant contact w/ the Attorney and offered to surrender if warrant was issued, and also that the DA wouldn't return the Attorney's phone call and went straight to the microphone to call them fugitives. Between the shame and fear for their safety, it's not surprising that they were in hiding I wouldn't read much into the whole "fugitive" angle. I have zero problem with them being charged, however this looks to be quite rushed in an effort to appease the mob as has happened in other recent cases.
Seems like a pretty fair assessment of what happened. So...how long until they charge parents for being irresponsible and allowing their shitty driving teen behind the wheel...and imagine the horror they even bought them a car. So Mr Buck F, Your child killed speaker Pelosi's grandchild in that crash. You should have known better that your child couldn't drive. The drivers license they were issued only teaches them of basic driving skills. You should have not allowed that child to drive. Bail set at 1 million.

May seem a foolish scenario but just when will they stop going after those who technically committed no crimes just to appease the libs and angered citizens over tragedies.
 
Seems like a pretty fair assessment of what happened. So...how long until they charge parents for being irresponsible and allowing their shitty driving teen behind the wheel...and imagine the horror they even bought them a car. So Mr Buck F, Your child killed speaker Pelosi's grandchild in that crash. You should have known better that your child couldn't drive. The drivers license they were issued only teaches them of basic driving skills. You should have not allowed that child to drive. Bail set at 1 million.

May seem a foolish scenario but just when will they stop going after those who technically committed no crimes just to appease the libs and angered citizens over tragedies.
😂😂

So if it was called to my attention that my
Kid (who has his/hers license) was drawing pictures of people/crowds and “mowing” them down in those pictures. He/she wouldn’t ever drive our vehicle.
 
I have read a number of reports that stated that they were in constant contact w/ the Attorney and offered to surrender if warrant was issued, and also that the DA wouldn't return the Attorney's phone call and went straight to the microphone to call them fugitives. Between the shame and fear for their safety, it's not surprising that they were in hiding I wouldn't read much into the whole "fugitive" angle. I have zero problem with them being charged, however this looks to be quite rushed in an effort to appease the mob as has happened in other recent cases.

Fear for their safety? lol. They withdrew $4;000 Friday and were hiding out with their phones turned off. They could have surrendered at any police station, they’re morons. If they surrendered they would have gotten a much lower bail.
 
Seems like a pretty fair assessment of what happened. So...how long until they charge parents for being irresponsible and allowing their shitty driving teen behind the wheel...and imagine the horror they even bought them a car. So Mr Buck F, Your child killed speaker Pelosi's grandchild in that crash. You should have known better that your child couldn't drive. The drivers license they were issued only teaches them of basic driving skills. You should have not allowed that child to drive. Bail set at 1 million.

May seem a foolish scenario but just when will they stop going after those who technically committed no crimes just to appease the libs and angered citizens over tragedies.

Theses parents knew the kid was a time bomb and bought him a gun for a Christmas gift and left it for him to access. When the mother was told the nutty kid was searching for ammo online in school she texted him ‘lol. You need to be hide your searches better’

These parents are like the Loudon Virginia school district who had a transgender rape a girl in a bathroom and transferred him to another school without warning anyone. That’s not being a shitty parent, that’s criminal.

Your analogy is a poor one. These parents didn’t give their shitty driving kid a car, they bought alcohol for him, watched him drink and gave him the car keys.
 
How we even know anything about the kid being ill or the parents even knowing? I mean there's lots of kids who won't say anything to their parents.
How many truly disturbed kids have you been around, not 'medicated' adhd, I'm talking kids that give me the shivers.

Not a bad idea, but none of that is emergent. High school SPED referral teams meet once a month, if that. Calling the cops to go to Mom and Dad's house would have been groundless, would not have found any violations (presumably), and would have opened them up to a lawsuit. Granted, the missing gun might have been discovered and Mom and Dad might have figured out the perp had it, but we already know what the result would have been: a text from Mom. Which might have caused him to start shooting. We'll never know.

If I'm understanding this correctly, this kid had the gun in has bag that day. During the parent meeting, which seems to have been the first time Mom and Dad were told of the severity of the school disruption that had occurred the day before (when he was ordering ammo on his phone). Prior to that, the school's claiming they never had an inkling this kid was trouble.

Even a CHINs is not immediate, and in this case, all the kid had to do was ask to go to the bathroom and then come out shooting. I think the gun was coming out, regardless of what the administrators tried.
I'd like a forensic audit of the admin's computer. It's pretty easy to 'erase' disciplinary reports.
Maybe, maybe not. We have no way of knowing, as we sit here.

I've seen kids go from YEARS of quiet, uneventful time in the back row of classrooms to, suddenly, getting manhandled out by the cops and then kicking out the back windows of their cruisers. I have no idea what happened here, but I can full well believe this kid flew completely under the radar.
I get what you're saying, but as I stand in front of classes, I make mental notes based on my previous life. It may be harsh, but so far I'm batting 1000 on picking the trouble makers before I'm told about them when I'm walking into a classroom blind.
Seems like a pretty fair assessment of what happened. So...how long until they charge parents for being irresponsible and allowing their shitty driving teen behind the wheel...and imagine the horror they even bought them a car. So Mr Buck F, Your child killed speaker Pelosi's grandchild in that crash. You should have known better that your child couldn't drive. The drivers license they were issued only teaches them of basic driving skills. You should have not allowed that child to drive. Bail set at 1 million.

May seem a foolish scenario but just when will they stop going after those who technically committed no crimes just to appease the libs and angered citizens over tragedies.
This is a dumb argument, the license is issued by the State. Maybe if you buy your kid a car, but if he/she buys it and registers it in their name, there is no direct connection other than blood. Some states don't allow licenses until 18 unless you take a course. I don't remember if my parents chiseled their names into the stone when I went off with Fred and Barney.
 
The DA, sheriff etc have seen the text messages from the parents and crazy kid. There are rules about what prosecutors can release but I think there is likely a lot of very damning information there. I think we’ll see the issues this crazy kid had were very clear to the parents , especially the mother
 
So in your eyes his parents did nothing wrong?
I didn't say that. I said I am not sure if they did anything criminal. As more facts come out we will know. I agree that they are dumbasses and clearly not the greatest parents it seems. If the facts come out that they did break the law then they should be charged. The analogy was more towards just how far are we going to let the DAs (political figures) and politicians push just what people should get charged for if they haven't actually broken any laws. Not this particular situation but in general. We have so many DAs refusing to charge for "minor crimes", stealing etc. but we also have DAs charging people when the charges make no sense...Kyle Rittenhouse self defense for example.
 
I get what you're saying, but as I stand in front of classes, I make mental notes based on my previous life. It may be harsh, but so far I'm batting 1000 on picking the trouble makers before I'm told about them when I'm walking into a classroom blind.

We all do that. "That one. That one's the school shooter..."

I've never yet been correct, thank God. Mere troublemakers are easy; they usually make themselves known within the first ten minutes.
 
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Fear for their safety? lol. They withdrew $4;000 Friday and were hiding out with their phones turned off. They could have surrendered at any police station, they’re morons. If they surrendered they would have gotten a much lower bail.
If they had their phones off did they know there was a warrant issued? Did they disappear after the warrant was issued or were they already in hiding? Do you think after what happened they'd just sit in their house or just maybe go into hiding because the entire universe wanted their heads? Do you think the DA is above ignoring calls from their lawyer in favor of going on TV and proclaiming them fugitives? Again, I have no issue w/ them being charged but it's entirely understandable why they may have gone into hiding beforehand and how a DA might be grandstanding. IDGAF about their bail, I hope they rot in jail.
 
I didn't say that. I said I am not sure if they did anything criminal. As more facts come out we will know. I agree that they are dumbasses and clearly not the greatest parents it seems. If the facts come out that they did break the law then they should be charged. The analogy was more towards just how far are we going to let the DAs (political figures) and politicians push just what people should get charged for if they haven't actually broken any laws. Not this particular situation but in general. We have so many DAs refusing to charge for "minor crimes", stealing etc. but we also have DAs charging people when the charges make no sense...Kyle Rittenhouse self defense for example.
Fair enough. 👍

In like your thinking..🍻🍻🍻
 
I didn't say that. I said I am not sure if they did anything criminal. As more facts come out we will know. I agree that they are dumbasses and clearly not the greatest parents it seems. If the facts come out that they did break the law then they should be charged. The analogy was more towards just how far are we going to let the DAs (political figures) and politicians push just what people should get charged for if they haven't actually broken any laws. Not this particular situation but in general. We have so many DAs refusing to charge for "minor crimes", stealing etc. but we also have DAs charging people when the charges make no sense...Kyle Rittenhouse self defense for example.

The rittenhouse prosecution, binger and Kraus, should be disbarred. Rittenhouse was clearly a case of self defense and the prosecution a political move not a legal one. I don’t think there is anything similar here. We know the kid was a nut, parents knew it and they gave him free access to at least one gun.

We’ve had other kids take their parents gun and shoot people and not be charged. I think that tells us the parents in this case were extremely reckless.
 
If they had their phones off did they know there was a warrant issued? Did they disappear after the warrant was issued or were they already in hiding? Do you think after what happened they'd just sit in their house or just maybe go into hiding because the entire universe wanted their heads? Do you think the DA is above ignoring calls from their lawyer in favor of going on TV and proclaiming them fugitives? Again, I have no issue w/ them being charged but it's entirely understandable why they may have gone into hiding beforehand and how a DA might be grandstanding. IDGAF about their bail, I hope they rot in jail.

I’m sure 90% of the people in Michigan wanted them charged but I don’t think anyone wanted to physically harm them. From what I heard they knew they were charged. Why turn off the phones other than to prevent location tracking? If they wanted to be in a safe location, they could have told their lawyer the location.

I think they were evading but they seem like idiots so they could have been just making another stupid decision rather than evading.
 
Seems like a pretty fair assessment of what happened. So...how long until they charge parents for being irresponsible and allowing their shitty driving teen behind the wheel...and imagine the horror they even bought them a car. So Mr Buck F, Your child killed speaker Pelosi's grandchild in that crash. You should have known better that your child couldn't drive. The drivers license they were issued only teaches them of basic driving skills. You should have not allowed that child to drive. Bail set at 1 million.

May seem a foolish scenario but just when will they stop going after those who technically committed no crimes just to appease the libs and angered citizens over tragedies.
I'd think that being a lawyer you'd know those answers and how completely irrelevant they are to this scenario. Allowing a licensed child to drive a car or even providing them with a car is not gross negligence on the parents part. One can argue that the parents involvement in this case involving a 15 year old would be gross negligence and therefore subject to a different standard.
 
I'd think that being a lawyer you'd know those answers and how completely irrelevant they are to this scenario. Allowing a licensed child to drive a car or even providing them with a car is not gross negligence on the parents part. One can argue that the parents involvement in this case involving a 15 year old would be gross negligence and therefore subject to a different standard.
You are confusing me with C.Stockwell (my cousin's son) who is a lawyer. lol. But if you read my last post it was a poor place to put that analogy because people assumed it was making a comparison to that case specifically. It was an expression of the overreach of what is going on a lot in our court system.
 
Devil's advocate: They ran to run from people calling make death threats. Turned their phones off to stop the calls.
However, where ever they ended up. Most likely had internet access. Which should have told them they are being looked for the LEO's. Again, the parent's fault.

I am thinking the mother ran the house. Anything for her little angel. They let him keep the gun. Since he was googling where to find ammo. Then, they kinda says she tried to keep control by controlling the ammo. As dumb as that sounds. She had created a monster. Until we get into the trials. We won't know facts. Just like Kyles case. The media can leak information that would sway a jury.
 
VERY interesting reporting this morning: the superintendent, Tim Throne, is saying the principal and assistant principal were NOT INVOLVED in the decision to send the kid back to class.

Meaning, there was never a possibility to search the bag. One of those two would have been the ones to authorize that, at least here in MA. I'm guessing it's similar in MI.

Apparently, the entire incident was handled by "counselors." The reporting I've read leaves it unclear just what kind of counselors those were; not all school counselors are created equal. Many schools have "guidance counselors" (whose "counsel" is about what classes to take next year) and "adjustment counselors" (who do a lot more of what laymen would think of as "counseling").

From the sound of what I'm seeing, it seems to me that Oxford's version of adjustment counselors bear most of the responsibility here. They had him out of class for an hour and a half while the parents came in, had the meeting, and then wanted to send him home. Mom and Dad refused outright, saying they had to get back to work. The choice was to send him home to an empty house, or let him go back to class, so back to class he went.

Throne says the kid was calm and polite the entire time, quietly doing his science homework in the counselor's office, claiming the drawings were about a video game he was designing (a lot of students are into that shit, and adults buy it because they have no clue what the kids are talking about). He presumably had the gun in his bag that entire time. Throne, again, is saying the principal/AP weren't involved in any of these decisions.

As a guy who spends his working life at a public high school, everything I've just written sounds very credible to me. Every school is different, with a different culture and different roles and responsibilities for the grown-ups. My school would never, ever leave that situation solely in the hands of Guidance or the Adjustment Counselor; I think our counselors would have let the principal know when they pulled the kid from class, and certainly when the parents were told to come in. But my school is not every school.

But, to the point of my (and others') recent posts the last day or so, the TL;DR takeaway is that without administrator involvement, a bag search was probably never in the cards.
 
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... the superintendent, Tim Throne, is saying the principal and assistant principal were NOT INVOLVED in the decision to send the kid back to class.

Meaning, there was never a possibility to search the bag. One of those two would have been the ones to authorize that, at least here in MA.
In Sorta Loco Parentis?
No such process in my town's high school student handbook.
 
The rittenhouse prosecution, binger and Kraus, should be disbarred. Rittenhouse was clearly a case of self defense and the prosecution a political move not a legal one. I don’t think there is anything similar here. We know the kid was a nut, parents knew it and they gave him free access to at least one gun.

We’ve had other kids take their parents gun and shoot people and not be charged. I think that tells us the parents in this case were extremely reckless.
Well, in at least one case, the parent was the first victim. The Florida case, the 'kid' was 18 or 19 and technically an adult. This is the first one in a while where the shooter was an actual person most would consider a 'child'. I don't know of any recently, where's there's absolute evidence the parents bought the shooter a gun either. Not saying the evidence exists, but if the reports are true it's a different situation than the others in that instance. Just looking at it from as far away as I can get with kids in a school.

I also keep in mind, more people win the lottery every year than there are actual random 'school shootings'.
 
VERY interesting reporting this morning: the superintendent, Tim Throne, is saying the principal and assistant principal were NOT INVOLVED in the decision to send the kid back to class.

Meaning, there was never a possibility to search the bag. One of those two would have been the ones to authorize that, at least here in MA. I'm guessing it's similar in MI.

Apparently, the entire incident was handled by "counselors." The reporting I've read leaves it unclear just what kind of counselors those were; not all school counselors are created equal. Many schools have "guidance counselors" (whose "counsel" is about what classes to take next year) and "adjustment counselors" (who do a lot more of what laymen would think of as "counseling").

From the sound of what I'm seeing, it seems to me that Oxford's version of adjustment counselors bear most of the responsibility here. They had him out of class for an hour and a half while the parents came in, had the meeting, and then wanted to send him home. Mom and Dad refused outright, saying they had to get back to work. The choice was to send him home to an empty house, or let him go back to class, so back to class he went.

Throne says the kid was calm and polite the entire time, quietly doing his science homework in the counselor's office, claiming the drawings were about a video game he was designing (a lot of students are into that shit, and adults buy it because they have no clue what the kids are talking about). He presumably had the gun in his bag that entire time. Throne, again, is saying the principal/AP weren't involved in any of these decisions.

As a guy who spends his working life at a public high school, everything I've just written sounds very credible to me. Every school is different, with a different culture and different roles and responsibilities for the grown-ups. My school would never, ever leave that situation solely in the hands of Guidance or the Adjustment Counselor; I think our counselors would have let the principal know when they pulled the kid from class, and certainly when the parents were told to come in. But my school is not every school.

But, to the point of my (and others') recent posts the last day or so, the TL;DR takeaway is that without administrator involvement, a bag search was probably never in the cards.
If this is true, it's just one more example that damn near anyone involved in the schools should not be the final arbiter for situations like this. I bet my kid's school dean and principal go to sleep every night praying, 'please let tomorrow not be the day', instead of getting people involved and getting the kids as far away from a school as physically possible.

I flat out told them one of the kids is a future client of my former life. The look I got would be priceless in another situation.
 
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