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Multiple victims in Oxford High School shooting, Oakland County Sheriff confirms

namedpipes said:
doesn't appear to be illegal in Michigan
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i am not talking about legality - only about stupidity.
i myself have 2 teens, and even if i am 100% sure they are great and stable and mentally fit - no freaking way i will have any gun in my house accessible or reachable by them.
kids are kids, even a smallest life shit for them is like the end of the universe.
 
paul73 said:
i am not talking about legality - only about stupidity.
i myself have 2 teens, and even if i am 100% sure they are great and stable and mentally fit - no freaking way i will have any gun in my house accessible or reachable by them.
kids are kids, even a smallest life shit for them is like the end of the universe.
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The idiotic part was that this kid expressed some strange behavior. The day before he was brought in for searching for ammo in the school. They did nothing but let him go back to class.

The kid had issues and it was known to at least the parents and apparently to the school officials. But school officials are more concerned about protecting the reputation of the school than safety.
 
pinefd said:
What gets me is the fact that there were a number of kids who stayed home from school that day, with their parents' blessing, because they had a strong suspicion that something serious might happen. Didn't any of these kids or parents report these concerns to the school and/or police...especially with the whole "see something, say something" campaign? I'm guessing there are a lot more people than just the shooter's parents who could have done more to help prevent this tragedy.


Frank
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…and? So they call the school. What can the school do to the kid? Boot him out of school? Based on hearsay? Not in any state I’m aware of; that’s a civil rights lawsuit waiting to happen, for everyone from the superintendent on down. A slam-dunk, in fact.

Like I said above, sometimes the school’s hands are tied. Everything is easy in hindsight.
 
namedpipes said:
paul73 said:
inexcusable and unexplainable why gun was just laying around with no lock or was not in the safe, under such circumstances. ... to keep gun in the open with a teen kid in the house is stupid.
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It's STUPID, yes, especially if they had any inkling that their kids was bent in the head.
It doesn't appear to be illegal in Michigan, though.
Prosecutor would have to prove the parents knew the kid was special, got the gun anyway AND left it accessible to them.
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You know what you're not gonna see?
You're not gonna see the high school covering for the parents.
You're not gonna see the high school claiming they never told the parents the kid was trouble.
 
Picton said:
…and? So they call the school. What can the school do to the kid? Boot him out of school? Based on hearsay? Not in any state I’m aware of; that’s a civil rights lawsuit waiting to happen, for everyone from the superintendent on down. A slam-dunk, in fact.

Like I said above, sometimes the school’s hands are tied. Everything is easy in hindsight.
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Uh, call the police department?
 
AHM said:
Uh, call the police department?
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And they‘ll do what?

In MA? Nothing. It’s still a 5th amendment violation to kick a kid out of school for no reason. The cops could hang out and watch the kid enter the building, but they’re not going to stay there all day because some parents called.

The school can search the kid, of course.
 
paul73 said:
i am not talking about legality - only about stupidity.
i myself have 2 teens, and even if i am 100% sure they are great and stable and mentally fit - no freaking way i will have any gun in my house accessible or reachable by them.
kids are kids, even a smallest life shit for them is like the end of the universe.
Click to expand...

I bought my first rifle at 15. I guess that things are different now.

I find it interesting that they charged the kid as an adult and are now charging other adults (his parents) for involuntary manslaughter.

Being stupid isn’t a crime. If it was, the vast majority of our government officials would be in jail. Just but them all on Guam so they will drown when it capsizes.

Bob
 
www.wsj.com

Michigan School-Shooting Suspect’s Parents Plead Not Guilty to Involuntary Manslaughter

A judge set a bond for the parents of a Michigan teen accused of killing four high-school classmates this week at $500,000 at their arraignment on charges of involuntary manslaughter.
www.wsj.com www.wsj.com

"The parents had purchased the gun for the boy as an early Christmas gift on Black Friday, Nov. 26, Ms. McDonald said."

Well, I bought my son a Daniel Defense 556 last year for XMAS. Of course, he’s a Army Infantry Paratrooper in the 82nd Airborne - he’s supposed to kill people. The right people. His work tool is a M249 SAW. He’s a big boy, so keeps his M4 handy for housekeeping too.
 
The more I hear about this, the more I'm surprised the school didn't search the kid's bag before letting him back to class. They were well within their rights to do so. I suspect my principal would have, but maybe not.

The latest is that the parents were notably unhelpful and dismissive of the school's concerns (which is par for the course on a number of issues) that morning, but if they told the school about the gun (which I doubt) there's NO excuse for not searching the backpack. If they didn't... well. It's a judgement call by the principal, who is certainly beating himself up now about not doing the search.

I'd be curious about whether the parents had a reputation for litigiousness with the schools. Some do.
 
Picton said:
The more I hear about this, the more I'm surprised the school didn't search the kid's bag before letting him back to class. They were well within their rights to do so. I suspect my principal would have, but maybe not.

The latest is that the parents were notably unhelpful and dismissive of the school's concerns (which is par for the course on a number of issues) that morning, but if they told the school about the gun (which I doubt) there's NO excuse for not searching the backpack. If they didn't... well. It's a judgement call by the principal, who is certainly beating himself up now about not doing the search.

I'd be curious about whether the parents had a reputation for litigiousness with the schools. Some do.
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Whole story is odd. I’ll just keep it at that.
We have no details and no knowledge of exact circumstances.
Kid did not look like a maniacal psycho to me from what I saw, but I am not a psychoanalyst.
 
Picton said:
The more I hear about this, the more I'm surprised the school didn't search the kid's bag before letting him back to class. They were well within their rights to do so. I suspect my principal would have, but maybe not.

The latest is that the parents were notably unhelpful and dismissive of the school's concerns (which is par for the course on a number of issues) that morning, but if they told the school about the gun (which I doubt) there's NO excuse for not searching the backpack. If they didn't... well. It's a judgement call by the principal, who is certainly beating himself up now about not doing the search.

I'd be curious about whether the parents had a reputation for litigiousness with the schools. Some do.
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Yep. My Dad’s best advice to me was, you either gotta be good, or not get caught.

But the 70s/80s were worlds away from today. Kids don’t know right from wrong ‘cause often parents don’t know right from wrong. They only know their secular perspective on society and politics, or religious perspective on right and wrong, with little thought on the adolescent mind and the angst of growing up. They don’t guide their children - theny make their children the vehicle for their social views. That works poorly.
 
paul73 said:
Whole story is odd. I’ll just keep it at that.
We have no details and no knowledge of exact circumstances.
Kid did not look like a maniacal psycho to me from what I saw, but I am not a psychoanalyst.
Click to expand...
He'd been drawing firearms and threats on his desk, which led to the parent conference that morning. Prior to that, the school apparently hadn't had any problems with him. I'm sure the school wanted to believe there was nothing nefarious behind the drawings, and that whatever the kid and the parents told them reaffirmed that belief.

I've not seen this confirmed, but he might have been posting weirdness on social media prior to the day of the shooting.
 
paul73 said:
That is the odd part.
He may been a psycho, who knows, but usually it takes time for people to break.
Click to expand...

Any HS teacher will tell you that the quiet, furtive students are the ones you always expect to go off one day, without warning. Adolescents are VERY good at staying under the radar if they want to.
 
MaverickNH said:
Yep. My Dad’s best advice to me was, you either gotta be good, or not get caught.

But the 70s/80s were worlds away from today. Kids don’t know right from wrong ‘cause often parents don’t know right from wrong. They only know their secular perspective on society and politics, or religious perspective on right and wrong, with little thought on the adolescent mind and the angst of growing up. They don’t guide their children - theny make their children the vehicle for their social views. That works poorly.
Click to expand...
Kids today are brought up by playing Roblox, or later, Call of Duty (or whatever the currently popular shoot em up game is)

Parents have largely abdicated their job of raising people.

In this case, the school should have searched the backpack and locker and notified the PD that concerns were raised.

In this case, to the parents should have (may have) known their kids was a time bomb and should have taken steps to prevent this.

Basically if anybody had done their job those kids would probably be alive today.
 
This is from NPR (don't want to link them since I detest them).
Unless they are lying and making up stuff, this does not look good for parents.

===================================

The prosecutor describes the parents' conduct before the shooting​


The 9 mm Sig Sauer SP 2022 pistol used in Tuesday's shooting at the high school in Oxford Township, a small community north of Detroit, was purchased by James Crumbley at a local gun shop, authorities said. His son Ethan Crumbley was with him at the time of the purchase, they said.

Jennifer Crumbley referred to the gun as their son's "new Christmas present" in a social media post, McDonald said during Friday's news conference. She added that the gun was stored unlocked in a drawer in the parents' bedroom.

The day before the shooting, an Oxford High School teacher reported Ethan Crumbley, a sophomore at the school, after they spotted him using his phone to search for ammunition, the prosecutor said.

School officials left a voicemail and email for Jennifer Crumbley, who did not respond, according to McDonald. But Crumbley sent a text message to her son that said, "LOL I'm not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught."

Then, on the morning of the shooting, the prosecutor said, Crumbley's teacher found a drawing on Ethan's desk of a handgun, bullet and shooting victim, with the words "blood everywhere" and "the thoughts won't stop, help me."

Disturbed, the teacher informed school authorities, who called both James and Jennifer Crumbley to the school; they were told they would be required to seek counseling for their son.

"Both James and Jennifer Crumbley failed to ask if their son had his gun with him or where his gun was located, and failed to inspect his backpack for the presence of the gun, which he had with him," McDonald said.

The parents "resisted the idea" of Ethan leaving school at that time, McDonald said. Afterward, Crumbley returned to class. Just before 1 p.m., he entered a bathroom wearing a backpack, then came out with the pistol in his hand and began shooting, authorities have said.

"When the news of the active shooter at Oxford High School had been made public, Jennifer Crumbley texted to her son at 1:22 p.m., 'Ethan, don't do it,' " McDonald said. Fifteen minutes later, James Crumbley called 911 to report that the gun was missing and that it may be his son who committed the school shooting.

"I have tremendous compassion and empathy for parents who have children who are struggling and at risk for whatever reason," McDonald said. "But the facts of this are so egregious."
 
namedpipes said:
Parents have largely abdicated their job of raising people.
Click to expand...

Probably because we’ve largely abandoned the concept of stay at home parents. My dad worked 40 hours a week, rarely any OT, mom never worked. That’s highly unusual in this day and age.

All the folks I know with young kids either have one parent who works 80 hrs a week as an over performing middle manager and never spend time with the kids or has two parents who work 40+ hours each and their kids are raised by internet and a daycare that hires people of ‘questionable’ legality for $10 an hour.

Or you have Tami-Lynn with 8 kids and 6 baby daddies. The folks you WANT raising kids are often the ones too busy to do so and are making the logical choice to delay or not have them because it’s no longer financially feasible.
 
This is Biden’s fault. It really is. He is the who sponsered the crime control act of 1990 which included the gun free zone in schools legislation.
 
Fixxah said:
Some galena justice is needed for these scumbags. All the handouts have destroyed Americana. The wick is burning.
And now add 1.7 million illegals thus far and God only knows how many snack are have invaded.
When they get to offing politicians they will put an end to it. Unless it is republican victims.
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Um, far be it from me to Mr. Debby Downer, but that 1.7 million number? That's what was CAUGHT, not what came in.
 
Picton said:
And they‘ll do what?
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Their jobs.

Picton said:
It’s still a 5th amendment violation to kick a kid out of school for no reason.
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535t8v.png
 

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