moving to Boston area- can I be denied a LTC?

[bostonbound]

First, let me say how happy I am to find this website- to get the straight scoop on firearms laws from the people who live with/under them.

I'm moving to the Boston area in about a month. I know better to live in Boston proper but I'm probably going to be in one of the local towns (somerville, cambridge).

My question is this: I'm interested in getting a LTC class B. I already looked at the application and I can truthfully answer "No" to all of the "Have you ever?" questions. With that plus the required courses, can I reasonably expect the somerville or cambridge chief to approve my LTC-B? Do they deny people "just because" even if everything is on the up-and-up?

(I know these are lousy towns for gun owners but I don't have a lot of choice thanks to my new job.. Also I'm coming from an even more restrictive city so this is actually a step up for me..)

 

[FPrice]

My question is this: I'm interested in getting a LTC class B.

Welcome to Massachusetts. You have found the finest online board for shooting enthusiasts in New England. I cannot answer your question about towns because I live in Western Massachusetts but someone willbe along who can advise you.

My only question is, why an LTC-B and not an LTC-A? There is no difference in training and the LTC-A will allow you to purchase high capacity pistols and possibly carry concealed. If you opt for the LTC-B you will only be limiting yourself. Go for the A.

 

[hminsky]

My impression is that you should avoid Brookline or Cambridge as places which don't seem to grant full unrestricted LTC, unless you happen to work for the police. I live in Newton, and I wish I had read this board before I applied for a LTC, I think I would have been better prepared to talk with the police department in our town (Newton) when they interviewed me, and I would have asked for an unrestricted LTC with more confidence and knowledge. As it was, I applied for the LTC A All Lawful Purposes, as my instructor had suggested, but the officer interviewing me asked what I wanted it for, and I said basically target practice, and that was the restriction given to me. At the time, I wasn't clear at all on the politics of the whole process.

 

[Paulm]

Welcome to the board!!!

Somerville can be tough.. I got an LTC with restrictions fairly easy but to get an ALP it took me 3 renewals.

Bugie

 

[Len-2A Training]

Welcome to the forum and do a bit of Searching (link above) on this forum. I think that someone (SR?) reported that Arlington has a good reputation for LTCs.

I don't live near there, so I can't say who's good and who's bad.

It would be a BIG MISTAKE to request a LTC-B!! Go for LTC-A/ALP and you will almost assuredly get a LTC-A. Any restrictions will largely depend on what town and how you respond to their questions.

 

[Jeremiah]

Avoid LTC-B or the FID license. You'll just want an LTC-A as soon as you get either of the other two licenses. I have an LTC-A, but I think all of my guns are legally within the restrictions of an LTC-B license. Why burden yourself extra confusion of only being able to touch a subset of the guns on display? All of the costs are the same for LTC-A or B.

If you hope that an LTC-B will make your application more palatable to the cheif of police, I think all it will tell the police is that you're a pushover and won't put up a fuss if given the (politically-safer-for-them) sport/target license.

Avoid Quincy, Boston and Braintree. Cambridge and Somerville are probably also bad, but those three seem to be the worst.

 

[dreppucci007]

Avoid LTC-B or the FID license.

Absolutely!

If you hope that an LTC-B will make your application more palatable to the cheif of police, I think all it will tell the police is that you're a pushover and won't put up a fuss if given the (politically-safer-for-them) sport/target license.

LTC-A is the ONLY way to go and get the most/most potential out of your license.

 

[Scrivener]

Don't waste time on an LTC-B. Apply for an A; even if it is restricted, you will have the functional equivalent of a B AND the option of owning a "large capacity" handgun.

Note that there are a lot of ignorant cops who think an A is required to own a "large capacity" rifle or shotgun. They're wrong, but why give them an opportunity to contaminate your life with their incompetence?

Also, go to www.packing.org to review its reports on Mass towns. A call to GOAL would also be in order.

 

[M1911]

You will likely get an LTC-A, but it will be restricted. In other words, you will not be able to carry concealed. I agree with the others who have responded -- don't waste your time applying for an LTC-B.

 

[bostonbound]

First off, I want to really thank all you guys for the warm welcome to the board..as I said before, I'm just really grateful to live in a world with the internet to bring together so much knowledge about the maze of laws that exist...

You're totally right about the LTC-A.. I'm obviously still learning about the different licenses and I was confused about the differneces between LTC-A and -B. I'll keep reading. I've been searching this forum for peoples experiences getting licenses in different towns and I'll continue doing that.

My biggest concern is that I don't want to move to a town where the chief is known to just randomly say "no." to a LTC application even if I've kept my nose clean my whole life and filled out all the paperwork. I'm willing to accept a "sporting & target" restriction because after living years in NYC (!!!!), I'm just happy to be able to buy an ar-15 even if I can't carry a concealed pistol... With time I will raise my expectations I'm sure but for now, if you can believe it, this move is actually a step up for me re: gun laws. (terrible, I know).

From reading here, it sounds like Arlington and Somerville are places that you can expect to issue a LTC-A (+/- restrictions) if you follow the rules. I'm going to call Roach's sporting goods and ask them about what to expect in Cambridge. Maybe someone on the forums has experience with Cambridge and LTCs and they can weigh in too.

 

[M1911]

It is my understanding that in Arlington you will likely get an LTC A without restriction. I doubt that would be the case in Cambridge, Somerville, or Watertown.

 

[Scrivener]

"I'm going to call Roach's sporting goods and ask them about what to expect in Cambridge."

Call where you wish, but a call to GOAL would be FAR more illuminating. As would a check of the info at packing.org.

You will almost certainly find Cambridge to be hostile to your application. You will find Waltham, Needham and even Newton would be more receptive.

Good luck!

 

[bostonbound]

Call where you wish, but a call to GOAL would be FAR more illuminating.

Good luck!

I'll do just that. Thanks again!

 

[Jeremiah]

bostonbound,
Here's my impression of how the various towns stack up, in order from worst to better:

Braintree and Quincy: require range test to get license. Have a reputation for denying licenses to lawful citizens for no reason. Quincy was denying everyone recently.
Boston: requires range test. No problem with getting a license, but the license will almost certainly be restricted to sport/target
Cambridge/Somervill: don't know. I don't think they require a range test, but they seem to be about as restrictive as Boston.
Arlington: best of the bunch.

So, for what you describe, you probably only need to avoid Braintree and Quincy.

Roach's will give you good advice. If you want to talk to someone in Boston, the guys at the Boston Gun & Rifle Association (www.bostongunclub.net) will help you out. If you want someone to take you to the Boston Gun Club (it's hidden away in darkest Dorchester), PM me and I can show you around.

(2nd caveat: I know you are saying right now that you don't care about being restricted to sport/target only, but, again, it will be worth something to you to avoid the confusion that comes with license restrictions. I have a sport/target restriction--which meets my needs--but I would prefer an ALP. I don't know if I trust myself to carry at the moment, but I would rather have an ALP license just so that I would be less likely to break the law when moving guns between the house and the range.)

 

[Emoto]

Welcome!

Do you have a town picked out where you are going to live yet? Will you be visiting before you move out here?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with contacting the police chief in any town you are thinking of moving to and asking his policy on issuing LTC-A/ALP to people with spotless records. This might be best done in person, I dunno. No cop is going to offer you any sort of guarantee, but if they say things like "it shouldn't be a problem", you ought to be ok.

I got an LTC-A/ALP not because I asked for it, but because when the Sgt asked me what I wanted my permit for, I told him that I wanted to try everything: collecting, competition, gunsmithing, and I can't remember what all else I told him that I was interested in, but I told him that I was still exploring what would be interesting to me and I didn't want to be tripped up over a permit issue if I didn't have to be. When I renewed, I was smart enough to merely put down "all lawful purposes" and that is how it came back.

 

[lagrangian]

Welcome to the forum and do a bit of Searching (link above) on this forum. I think that someone (SR?) reported that Arlington has a good reputation for LTCs.

Arlington is rated green by packing.org and masscarry.org. The cover letter on the application package that the APD hands out says something along the lines of "generally we issue licenses for all lawful purposes". Arlington also doesn't add BS requirements. The only "extra" thing you have to submit is signing that you read a two-page summary of MA deadly force law that the APD has prepared.

I got my all lawful purposes LTC-A in 37 days. I know someone on this board recently said they got theirs in 29 days. My wife has just applied and she should be getting an ALP license (she saw that the licensing officer had entered "all lawful purposes" into MIRCS). (And even though the day my wife went in turned out to be the day after a local high school student blew the front of his head off with his dad's 9mm)

And for both me and my wife, the licensing officer pretty much didn't ask us any questions at all.

 

[ajw45]

Somerville gave me a restricted Class A with just a quick interview but didn't tell me I was going to get a restricted permit until it arrived. My fault for not asking though since back then I didn't know they could put restrictions on the license.

Arlington gave me an ALP Class A with just a quick interview (their policy is to give ALP for all Class A licenses).

I live in Cambridge now and renewal has me nervous but I still have a few years to worry...

Arlington is a great town so long as you don't drink much and aren't looking for what limited night life the Boston area has to offer. Practically no crime, cheaper car insurance rates and rent, and its quiet. I got into a car accident 1 block from my house when I lived in Arlington and Arlington PD was on the scene in 3 minutes flat... and I didn't even call them. When I asked how they found out so quick the officer grinned at me and said its a small town.

 

[Chris]

The problem with anything but a Class A is that the list of guns that are legal under the lesser licenses can change at the whim of an unelected person's stroke of a pen. There is no appeal. You can go from law abiding to felon in the blink of an eye with no action of yours.

Any restriction carrys the baggage of interpretation. All Lawful Purpses is simple and easy to understand. If you are not breaking any laws, you have a valid license. If you are breaking a law, your license is invalid.

Target and Hunting - On the way home from the range or the hunting trip, can you stop at the grocery store and pick up milk? Matters not if your guns are properly stored in the vehicle, it matters if the court decides if you violated your restriction.

Remember, this is the same court that can read the Massachusetts constitution and rule that citizens do not have any right to bear arms.

Go Arlington if you can and have to live close to Boston. Also look to see how close the nearest Red Line station is.

 

[Len-2A Training]

ajw, a place to live needs to be "livable". But when you are that close to Boston, the lack of in-town nightlife shouldn't be a big deal. Just get into your car or take the T and you can be downtown in short order (the T will get you there in about the same amount of time it will take to find a legal place to park if you insist on driving Downtown).

 

[Scrivener]

"The problem with anything but a Class A is that the list of guns that are legal under the lesser licenses can change at the whim of an unelected person's stroke of a pen."

In point of fact, the criteria for a "large capacity" firearm are set by STATUTE; hardly "the whim of an unelected person's stroke of a pen." That assertion is inaccurate to the point of being absurd.

The so-called "assault weapon roster" is the product of the Gun Control Advisory Board applying that statutory criteria to a given firearm and making a determination. Its members are not elected, but it is a BOARD and it does not act merely by the "stroke of a pen."

"You can go from law abiding to felon in the blink of an eye with no action of yours."

Not really. A CHANGE in your license from A to B or LTC to FID would have that as a consequence, but such a change IS appealable.

"Target and Hunting - On the way home from the range or the hunting trip, can you stop at the grocery store and pick up milk? Matters not if your guns are properly stored in the vehicle, it matters if the court decides if you violated your restriction."

Absurd. Vehicle storage is expressly set forth by statute; c. 140, s. 131C. If it is not on your person (and, with only a T&H permit, it shouldn't be), the gun can be stored "unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container."

If the gun is so secured, how would the police even know about it? Moreover, if it is so secured, why would the police have a problem with it?

 

[Len-2A Training]

I agree with Scrivener on this, with one potential exception (for the future):

- The GCAB created list of "what is a high cap gun" had at least one surprise in it when created . . . the S&W 41. Commonly thought of as a target pistol with only 10 rd mags, turns out that Chief Ron Glidden (chmn of said GCAB) found out from S&W that at one time they made an 11-rd mag for it . . . ergo it is "high cap gun" and on the list. [The criteria for that list was "was this gun ever sold to the public (anywhere) with a >10rd mag". If only aftermarket mags were available (e.g. Colt 1911 with 20+ rd mags), it only is "high cap gun" when the possessor has both the high cap mags and the gun (yes, even if the gun is not on this list).]

- With the Fed mag ban lifted, if any mfr decides to sell a model of gun (currently available with only 10 rd OEM mags) with a higher capacity mag, GCAB would be obligated to change the designation of said gun immediately to a "high cap gun". No notice, no warning, and no grandfather clause to current owners!

To wit, 99.9% of older target shooters that own S&W 41s probably have no clue that it is a "high cap gun"! IIRC, per Ron Glidden, I think the designation was changed on that gun subsequent to the first generated list of "high cap guns".

I have read (thus it is only a rumor to me) that their are some 12-rd S&W mags available for my S&W 622 that I have (which uses S&W 41/422/622/2606 mags).

 

[ajw45]

ajw, a place to live needs to be "livable". But when you are that close to Boston, the lack of in-town nightlife shouldn't be a big deal. Just get into your car or take the T and you can be downtown in short order (the T will get you there in about the same amount of time it will take to find a legal place to park if you insist on driving Downtown).

All true! However, I grew up in NYC and despite having lived in many other places, I still feel most comfortable being able to step outside my door and walk for everything I need... too see other people on the streets... to have stores and coffee shops/bars/restaurants that I can mosey over to... especially in the winter when a cold car buried in snow sounds so unappealing to me.....

 

[ajw45]

BTW, Somerville initially wanted to issue me a Class B license. Having just moved into Mass, I explained that I owned high capacity firearms and needed to have a Class A license to remain within the law.

 

[Scrivener]

"BTW, Somerville initially wanted to issue me a Class B license. Having just moved into Mass, I explained that I owned high capacity firearms and needed to have a Class A license to remain within the law."

Good answer. One I have used for several clients.

 

[SiameseRat]

BTW, Somerville initially wanted to issue me a Class B license. Having just moved into Mass, I explained that I owned high capacity firearms and needed to have a Class A license to remain within the law.

I had to convince the Somerville Lt that I needed an LTC A. They wanted to convince me I only needed a FID [roll]

 

[News Shooter]

When I got my LTC in Concord

The detective didn't even ask me, he wrote down ALP

 

[M1911]

However, I grew up in NYC and despite having lived in many other places, I still feel most comfortable being able to step outside my door and walk for everything I need... too see other people on the streets... to have stores and coffee shops/bars/restaurants that I can mosey over to...

Yeesh. Sounds like a perfect description of hell to me.

Different strokes...

 

[JellyFish]

You're a fool if you move to Boston. I'm gettingout of here, this is one of the worst places in the country if you are a gun owner.

Do not move here and do not buy anything in this city if you can help it. It's far better to deny them the tax revenue that these bloodsuckers feed on.

 

[Nickle]

At risk of sounding stupid, isn't Boston within commuting distance of New Hampshire? I know it may be a long commute, but, mine is just underan hour (33 miles). I get time to drink my coffee and relax on the way in.

 

[Adam_MA]

Nickle...
You are correct. Many people make that commute. As a matter of fact, I owned my own home in NH. For a total of 6 months. That was before they added the 3rd lane of RT3, so even though I only lived about 30 miles or so from work, it would take me on average 2+ hours to make the commute. The straw that broke my back (other than it was an easy way out of living with my ex-psycho-bitch) was an almost 5 hour commute during a snow storm. I would basically start my day waking up at around 4:15am and wouldn't get back home until almost 8pm every night of the week...

Things are better now with the extra lane, however I love my 20-25 minute commute (with traffic) now...

Sometimes its just hard to break free..

Adam