Moving a firearm from IL to MA, can I do this?

DMC2447

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New to the group. And I have been digging thru the forum trying to find the answer. But am still confused, if it is legal for me to move this firearm or not.

Here are the facts:
* Back in Illinois, I own a Taurus PT-92AF that I bought in 1989 in Illinois with one high capacity pre-ban clip (as MA calls it)) I have the paperwork proof of purchase.
* Moved to MA in 2009 due to a job transition, but left all my firearms back in IL with family to hold, since I was not familiar with the laws here.
* Received my MA LTC Class "A" license in April 2012, after a 80-day wait.
* Would like to now bring this firearm into MA by driving it from IL to MA.

I have a call into one of the MA Lawyers that specialize in MA firearms law. Just waiting to hear back. I thought I'd post this here for other tips.

On another note: Why is the FA-10 required in the above scenario, if the firearm is moved after moving here... but not required if the gun comes into the state during the move? Did I misread this?

Thanks.
 
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Yes, it is legal as you already own it, regardless of where the gun is located currently.

MGL ONLY exempts the FA-10 registration requirement WHEN you move into MA, every other time you "acquire in MA" (translation: Bring the gun into MA) for the first time you have to register it.

Let's look at WHY the exemption when you move into the state and bring it with your household goods . . .

- To register a gun you need to fill out an FA-10 form.
- You MUST register any gun within 7 days of bringing it into the state.
- In order to fill out an FA-10 form, you MUST have a valid MA LTC (or FID) and insert the number on the form.
- It is impossible to have a valid LTC/FID as a MA Resident within 7 days of moving into the state.
- Therefore, it is impossible to register your gun legally within 7 days and TPTB were "generous" enough to exempt you from that requirement when they wrote the law in 1998. [/sarcasm]

ETA: You do NOT need a lawyer for this and you don't need any FFL either.
 
One problem, though. You can't drive the gun through NY State, which then isolates New England from the rest of the US.

"It is unlawful for any person to carry, possess or transport a handgun in or through the state unless he has a valid New York license.

"A member or coach of an accredited college or university target pistol team may transport a handgun into or through New York to participate in a collegiate, Olympic or target pistol shooting competition provided that the handgun is unloaded and carried in a locked carrying case and the ammunition is carried in a separate locked container.


Non-resident target shooters may enter or pass through New York State with handguns for the purposes of any NRA approved competition or IHMSA sanctioned match, within 48 hours of the competition, if the competitor has in his possession a copy of the match program, proof of entry and a pistol license from his state of residence. The handgun must be unloaded and transported in a locked opaque container. This provision does not apply in NY cities not wholly contained within a single county or to people with felony convictions."

A provision of federal law provides a defense to state or local laws which would prohibit the passage of persons with firearms in interstate travel if the person is traveling from any place where he may lawfully possess and transport a firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and transport such firearm and the firearm is unloaded and in the trunk. In vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm shall be in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console

However, I wouldn't want to have to go to court with that as my defense in NY. If it were me, I would get an FFL to ship it to an FFL in MA.

IANAL
 
I already had a call into the FRB Director (Attorney Jason Guida), and he got back to me. He said it would be OK for me to bring the firearm into the state, BUT I would not be able to bring the magazine. I did find a source for MA compliant mags. So, I think I am set.

When looking for the MA compliant mags, I was a little perturbed when I saw various sources saying they will not ship Thompson Center pistol frames into MA. Mr. Guida told me this pistol is OK for me to personally bring in also.

Ianal,
Thanks for your reply. This NY reg is frustrating. Just when I though I was making progress, I'm taking steps backwards... ugh...

-Wayne
 
Protip #1 Listen to Len. I am sure he'll be back shortly to correct and or expand upon what has already been stated in this thread. He is the next best thing to your own lawyer and considerably cheaper. ;)

Protip #2. In MA, the state is not your friend. The .gov may give you a good answer and/or they may help you. Don't count on it. I'll defer to Len, but I believe that CHSB either misunderstood your scenario as related to us or has given you bad info as regards the mag.

ETA - ahhh yes. Mr. Guida is pushing a new interpretation of the mag law ...I remember now. Still deferring to Len. You're going to just *love* this story. Planning your move out of this state yet?
 
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New to the group. And I have been digging thru the forum trying to find the answer. But am still confused, if it is legal for me to move this firearm or not.

Welcome to NES!

Len has given you the correct advice.



One problem, though. You can't drive the gun through NY State...

>snip<

If it were me, I would get an FFL to ship it to an FFL in MA.

1. FOPA specifically allows the OP to transport his firearm through NY State.

2. Transfer to a MA FFL would be impossible, due to MA handgun compliance issues.



I already had a call into the FRB Director (Attorney Jason Guida), and he got back to me. He said it would be OK for me to bring the firearm into the state, BUT I would not be able to bring the magazine.

If the magazine was manufactured prior to 9/13/94, it is legal in MA.
 
still wondering how you can move into MA with firearms and ammo etc... while not having an LTC or FID.....
i have a family member moving to MA from RI (idiot)

is there a grace period for possessing without a license?
 
Thanks Nicole!

If the mag was MADE on/before 9/13/1994, it is "pre-ban" and perfectly LEGAL to own/buy/sell in MA!

FFLs would NOT be legally able to transfer your own handgun back to you in MA if it isn't on the EOPS List, period. Great way to "lose" the gun is to have it shipped to a MA FFL. [I do not track the EOPS List (subject of another thread here) so can't say if THIS PARTICULAR VERSION of the gun is or is not on said List!]

FOPA will protect you traveling with guns thru NY, just stay OUT of NYC and it's boroughs AND drive straight thru the state, abiding by all MV laws and make sure that you scrupulously follow the provisions of FOPA (which are different from MGL), NO gun related stickers on the car and don't stop in NY for anything (preferred . . . gas/bathroom/fast food only if absolutely necessary)!

Jason indeed has an "agenda" which is contrary to MGL as written and it comes thru in this "interpretation"! Luckily he is NOT LE and has NO law enforcement authority in MA. [Even Ron Glidden has publicly admitted that the memo where Jason "re-interprets" MGL to fit his agenda is wrong and not supported by MGL!]
 
Len,

I should just wait until the dust settles and waited for you to respond. This homework project is sucking up a lot of my time today... :)

Kevlar,

What about that snippet that talks about if it is wasn't owned by a MA licensed person prior to a particular date it isn't allowed in? Sorry, if I am not fully taking everything in. This is just frustrating. Been a long weekend and I'm just plain tired. I shouldn't have waited this long to plan this out on short notice.

-Wayne
 
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still wondering how you can move into MA with firearms and ammo etc... while not having an LTC or FID.....
i have a family member moving to MA from RI (idiot)

is there a grace period for possessing without a license?

Yes, 60 days grace period moving into MA per MGL.

- - - Updated - - -

Wayne, that's more of Jason's "re-interpretation" of MGL and NOT supported by MGL as written or intended!
 
1. FOPA specifically allows the OP to transport his firearm through NY State.
Yes, but apparently NY State treats FOPA as an "affirmative defense against prosecution" which means that they can arrest you under NY State law and you could successfully avoid a conviction using FOPA. As I said in my original reply: "I wouldn't want to have to go to court with that as my defense in NY."
 
Yes, but apparently NY State treats FOPA as an "affirmative defense against prosecution" which means that they can arrest you under NY State law and you could successfully avoid a conviction using FOPA. As I said in my original reply: "I wouldn't want to have to go to court with that as my defense in NY."

pbleic, there are no guarantees in life other than death and taxes, however (as Rob Boudrie likes to say) "getting lost in a crowd of one" works well. Call no attention to yourself, NEVER agree to "can I search your car" and you'll be fine 99.9999999999999999999999% of the time. [If an officer has "probable cause", he does NOT have to ask permission to search. If he doesn't, he also can't get a warrant and he can't detain you for hours on end for a witchhunt. A lot of police work involves bluffing, but it won't work on informed people who have a backbone to stand up to authority (politely but firmly).]

As for all the "what ifs" . . . I know of a case where a MA PO arrested someone for "possession of a BB gun without a LTC/FID"! Shit happens, doesn't mean it is legal or it will stick.
 
Today I am learning more acronyms to add to the million others I got at work. [smile]

I finally got IANAL, but what is ETA in the sense it is used in this thread?
 
Yes, but apparently NY State treats FOPA as an "affirmative defense against prosecution" which means that they can arrest you under NY State law and you could successfully avoid a conviction using FOPA. As I said in my original reply: "I wouldn't want to have to go to court with that as my defense in NY."

The easy answer is don't stop in NY, don't be stupid and pulled over by a LEO, don't drive through NYC at all!
 
Kevlar,

What about that snippet that talks about if it is wasn't owned by a MA licensed person prior to a particular date it isn't allowed in?

Where does it say that? If it's from the FRB (i.e. Jason Guida), as Len and Nicole said, that is his interpretation, and carries no weight. The statute (in this case) is quite clear.



Sorry, if I am not fully taking everything in. This is just frustrating.

No worries [grin], MA has some of the most confounding and byzantine laws I've ever read.



Yes, but apparently NY State treats FOPA as an "affirmative defense against prosecution" which means that they can arrest you under NY State law and you could successfully avoid a conviction using FOPA. As I said in my original reply: "I wouldn't want to have to go to court with that as my defense in NY."

Anecdotal evidence suggests that NYC (and Port Authority) are the problem areas, not NY State as a whole.

Personally, I have no problem transporting through NY State, but to each his/her own.

ETA: Len summed it up quite well.



...what is ETA in the sense it is used in this thread?

"Edited To Add"
 
Thanks maglock.

I would have to say you guys are AWESOME to come together like this to help me out on short notice.

Mental Note: Plan to take I-84 thru NY, and don't plan to stop.
 
Kevlar,
Getting back to your question of where did I see 'What about that snippet that talks about if it is wasn't owned by a MA licensed person prior to a particular date it isn't allowed in?' I've done so much crash course reading lately that I might have mixed up my thoughts.


All,
I can see where legal speak can get vague. This section of MGL talk to possession of a large capacity feeding device.

"Section 131M. No person shall sell, offer for sale, transfer or possess an assault weapon or a large capacity feeding device that was not otherwise lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994."

I was in lawful possession of this magazine on September 13, 1994, but I was not a MA resident.
That section doesn't really call out where the possession needs to be, it can be assumed it means MA but that would be an interpretation, right? I was living in Idaho Falls, ID, as a non-resident gun owner, while active duty in the Navy (yes parting the sands of the Arco desert). And this magazine was indeed MADE prior to September 13, 1994, since it it the one that came with the gun, when I bought it in 1989 in Illinois. Got my receipt... [smile]

Feeling more comfortable with going ahead to bring it in. Talked to the folks at GOAL ealier... they also say I am good to go.
 
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The mag (or pre-ban AW) could be ANYWHERE in the WORLD on/before 9/13/1994. Neither the expired Fed Law or MGL specifies "location". Only Jason has specified "location"!

How can anyone prove where any particular mag was located on any particular date? NOT possible! Jason and EOPS want to do what they can to STOP all sales/transfers/possession of large-cap mags or so-called pre-ban AWs as quickly as they can, in spite of what MGL actually says.

Don't over-think it. You are GTG!
 
Thanks maglock.

I would have to say you guys are AWESOME to come together like this to help me out on short notice.

Mental Note: Plan to take I-84 thru NY, and don't plan to stop.

I would suggest I-80 to I-81 to I-380/I-84 to I-84 to I-87 to Berkshire Connector to I-90. When I traveled to from Dayton OH I used this route. Just an FYI I-84 between Newburgh NY and MA border sucks as far as traffic is concerned.
I used this route 8 times in the last year and a half. Now I will just stay on I-81 when I go to Harrisburg PA.
 
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