Moved to MA not long ago. Got a restricted LTC A.

[Coyote33]

...If you only have a B, you can't carry concealed. Period. ...

Or even openly in a car, I see.

...This brings us back to open carry, which is a disaster waiting to happen if you try it in a car and get stopped.

...yet still legal (with a class A). "Disaster" is only an opinion in this case from everything I've seen and read to date. Again, this is with a Class A in a car.

 

[Scrivener]

...yet still legal (with a class A). "Disaster" is only an opinion in this case from everything I've seen and read to date. Again, this is with a Class A in a car.

Again, new LTC's are all "RESTRICTED" and have been for at least a year, thanks to moronic intermeddling to address an imaginary crisis. An LTC/A restricted to Target & Hunting is an illusory basis for carrying a loaded handgun anywhere but home, range or the field.

 

[adweisbe]

Scrivener, Why is a loaded gun allowed in the home? How is that part of "Sport and Target" or "Target and Hunting"? I would think that if they don't want you defending yourself outside the home then they would not want you to defend yourself inside the home. (They being certain MA LEO's)

 

[Coyote33]

Again, new LTC's are all "RESTRICTED" and have been for at least a year, thanks to moronic intermeddling to address an imaginary crisis. An LTC/A restricted to Target & Hunting is an illusory basis for carrying a loaded handgun anywhere but home, range or the field.

I was unaware that all new LTC's are restricted. This is news to me. What imaginary crisis are you (actually, they) referring to? I'm pretty sure that NOT ALL new LTC's are restricted to Target and Hunting. Correct me if I'm wrong (I guess I don't have to ask since I've been getting corrected even when I'm not wrong on this topic).

 

[KMaurer]

Yeah, Keith and I have been around the block with this one before. My current license, like most of the people who responded to the thread on this topic here, is "restricted" to All Lawful Purposes, unlike my previous one where that was only the "reason for issue". Let it go; nobody is interested in a repeat.

Ken

 

[Coyote33]

Yeah, Keith and I have been around the block with this one before. My current license, like most of the people who responded to the thread on this topic here, is "restricted" to All Lawful Purposes, unlike my previous one where that was only the "reason for issue". Let it go; nobody is interested in a repeat.

Ken

Ya know, I never noticed that before, since mine is under "reason for issue". Can you point me to the discussion? When did it change and what prompted the change? Was there a legislative or some other action prompting this? Or did it just come with the new license format?

 

[Scrivener]

Ya know, I never noticed that before, since mine is under "reason for issue". Can you point me to the discussion? When did it change and what prompted the change? Was there a legislative or some other action prompting this? Or did it just come with the new license format?

This forum has a SEARCH function for a reason.

 

[Scrivener]

Scrivener, Why is a loaded gun allowed in the home? How is that part of "Sport and Target" or "Target and Hunting"? I would think that if they don't want you defending yourself outside the home then they would not want you to defend yourself inside the home. (They being certain MA LEO's)

Quite simply, if you are in your own home, you are not "carrying." As the LTC permits possession, the applicable restrictions are just the capacity (A vs. B) and the storage requirements.

 

[Coyote33]

This forum has a SEARCH function for a reason.

I have pretty poor luck with that one. I keep suggesting they add the google button. I'll check it out when I have time. Thanks anyhow.

 

[icyclefar]

Hey, hey, hey ............ back to the begining here. When I was issued a Class B, after having applied for a Class A - ALP, I was given the same story. "Sorry, you can't fight it, you were not denied. If you truly are "prepared" to fight it then do what my counsel advised. March back in and apply for your Class A - ALP, in a very diplomatic way explain that you are anticipating only two possible outcomes, either it is issued, or denied. If denied ................ well you know the rest. That's how it went with me, cost me two application fees, but they issued it.

 

[Scrivener]

Hey, hey, hey ............ back to the begining here. When I was issued a Class B, after having applied for a Class A - ALP, I was given the same story. "Sorry, you can't fight it, you were not denied. If you truly are "prepared" to fight it then do what my counsel advised. March back in and apply for your Class A - ALP, in a very diplomatic way explain that you are anticipating only two possible outcomes, either it is issued, or denied. If denied ................ well you know the rest. That's how it went with me, cost me two application fees, but they issued it.

I'll bite - why did you even ACCEPT the lesser license?

 

[dwarven1]

...yet still legal (with a class A). "Disaster" is only an opinion in this case from everything I've seen and read to date. Again, this is with a Class A in a car.

I'll repeat my suggestion, suitably modified.

Try finding a sobriety checkpoint (or just pull up to a cruiser and make sure he can see your gun), make sure your gun is on your hip unconcealed, and say hi to the nice officer.

Make sure you tell us about it after you make bail.

 

[icyclefar]

I'll bite - why did you even ACCEPT the lesser license?

well ........... I did'nt accept, had the discussion, made the second application, and on the way out they told me "you might as well take this one with you (the class B) because you already paid for it"

 

[freedom2006]

Pardon my ignorance but what is a "restricted" LTC-A? How is it different than a LTC-B?

 

[freedom2006]

Pardon my ignorance but what is a "restricted" LTC-A? How is it different than a LTC-B?

Forget I asked, I just read the answer further up in the thread.

 

[Lugnut]

You know... I think I understand the laws and restrictions some of us havein MA... the way they should be and the way the local PCs sometimes interpret thier power.

I personally think it's always a bad move to open carry, even if that WAS your only option. However.... it really completely pisses me off the LEO can and readily will remove your rights at any whim... it's like walking on egg shells in this damn state!!

 

[SiameseRat]

Nothing.

Stop contaminating a perfectly good argument with niggling facts.


That's MY job!

OK Scrivvy, you're right, I'm wr(ight)ong

 

[SiameseRat]

Icycle- would you mind letting me know what town you're in? I tried the whole reapplication thing and after my application sat for 45 days the LEO finally admitted he wasn't going to process it.

 

[Scrivener]

I tried the whole reapplication thing and after my application sat for 45 days the LEO finally admitted he wasn't going to process it.

Which makes it unlikely he'll process the second one either. Makes the second $100 an almost certain waste - better to spend $200 filing the appeal in district court.

OK Scrivvy, you're right, I'm wr(ight)ong

Actually, I just couldn't resist the opening you gave me. Keep feeding me those straight lines!

 

[icyclefar]

I tried the whole reapplication thing and after my application sat for 45 days the LEO finally admitted he wasn't going to process it.

I can't help but wonder ......... where does one stand if LEO refuses to process the application?

 

[Coyote33]

I'll repeat my suggestion, suitably modified.

Try finding a sobriety checkpoint (or just pull up to a cruiser and make sure he can see your gun), make sure your gun is on your hip unconcealed, and say hi to the nice officer.

Make sure you tell us about it after you make bail.

The answer in reply #7 still applies.

...
SO, can one carry when to and from a range or event, with a "Target and Hunting" LTC A?

And, what can I do to get this restriction removed?
...

Wow, bet you never thought you'd get this much discussion!

I don't think anybody has really commented on the second question.

Isn't "Target" synonymous with going to the range? Is CCW for the intended, restricted purpose OK? What if he were CCW while AT the range and there were a bunch of his town's police there to see him holster and unholster?

 

[drgrant]

So, what you are saying is that because people have gotten used to not seeing people with a gun that ..


they should get used to not seeing people with a gun?


I hope you don't support that way of thinking. Maybe it is just the closeness to Boston which is affecting you more. I'd much rather get the response which we saw from that chief in NH from another thread on here.

The difference is in someplace like NH there is judicial opinion (eg, the
Attorney General in NH says that open carry is a RIGHT) that backs up
the assertion of the person openly carrying the gun. In NH your permit
cannot be pulled because the police "don't like you" either.

A similar condition exists in VA. Even though people will often
call the cops on you down there, it's still legal, and often times you will
not be arrested, and even if you are, as soon as a judge gets wind of
it, you'll get released, because arresting someone for openly carrying
there ultimately almost never holds water.

It would also be a different story in MA if they had to have just cause to
revoke or pull a permit, and not just "unsuitable person". If LE had
to go through -due process- to pull a permit, they would be a lot less
likely to do so. In MA an issuing authority yanking a permit (via unsuitable
person) is a simple administrative matter, at best. If the rules were
forced statutory instead of being subjective, it'd be far more
difficult.

That and theres simply different judicial attitudes.... in MA said attitude
might be called "expansionist" or "activist", etc.... in other locales they
might actually stick to doing their job, which is a strict, but fair interpretation
of the law. Here in MA, we have no such recent judicial opinions
(in MA) that I'm aware of that assert/reinforce ones right to carry a
firearm. (If there IS one, somebody please post it! )

Thus, the ability to do pavlovian conditioning on local authorities that
"carrying a gun openly is okay" up here is pretty limited, given that
the general attitude is to try to make someones life a living hell. Open
carrying in MA is like rolling a set of loaded dice, that are going to land
on "The Man's" numbers most of the time. Not only is the house
going to get most of the profit, the house is also CHEATING in the
game. And most folks here don't want to make what amounts to
a "limp wristed" attempt at flipping off the man when the possible cost
of trying to do so is loss of ownership rights.

-Mike

 

[Len-2A Training]

Well stated Mike.

Doug, NO "going to the range" is not the same as "Target" in the eyes of LEOs.

Regardless of class of LTC, if you are actually at a gun range I can't imagine any LEO hassling you for carrying open or concealed. Once you leave the range property however, the scenario and likely outcome change completely however (regardless of class of LTC . . . they don't want anyone to see it).

 

[SiameseRat]

I can't help but wonder ......... where does one stand if LEO refuses to process the application?

Nowhere. I HAVE a current LTC-A S&T that doesn't expire for a couple of years. There's absolutely no reason for him to do it except for out of the kindness of his heart, since there's no legal ramifications if he doesn't.

Now if you were a new applicant or a soon-to-be expired licensee, then that would be something that you could take to court and have a leg to stand on.

 

[Coyote33]

Well stated Mike.

Doug, NO "going to the range" is not the same as "Target" in the eyes of LEOs...

WHICH "LEO's"? I can't imagine them giving a hassle for you having a target license when you have a bunch of targets sitting on the seat next to you. If you think they will, we are from much different parts of the state or something.

Again, new LTC's are all "RESTRICTED" and have been for at least a year, thanks to moronic intermeddling to address an imaginary crisis. An LTC/A restricted to Target & Hunting is an illusory basis for carrying a loaded handgun anywhere but home, range or the field.

Restrictions: NONE

Huh?


Edit: Another one: Restrictions: NONE

 

[Scrivener]

(please delete this post or provide the ability to do so)

Best thing he's posted all month......

 

[Len-2A Training]

Best thing he's posted all month......

+1

 

[MrsWildweasel]

+1

Can't argue that one either. I totally agree.

 

[Adam_MA]

Best thing he's posted all month......

 

[dwarven1]

Best thing he's posted all month......

Not really... he's made that request multiple times before. I'd think that he'd just figure out that he should really think twice before he hits the "submit reply" button.