Moved to MA not long ago. Got a restricted LTC A.

A

Arcwelder

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I'm dissappointed. I had a REAL CCW permit when I lived in Connecticut. Nothing has changed, except now I live in a town that seldom issues "All Lawful."

It's got a bit more of a sting because I still have an active MA Non-Res that is an unrestricted Class A.

But Nooooooo, I can't have it now. Only "Target and Hunting" for me. Forkin' great.

Question for you fella's: Can I lawfully carry concealed when I'm taking numerous firearms to and from the range? I'm going to feel very, very naked with a pile of guns in the trunk and not one on my hip.

Now that my right to carry has been neutered, I'm not happy. I had my reasons to move to MA, life is more than guns. I just feel sad currently, as I can CCW in CT and NH, yet not in MA.

SO, can one carry when to and from a range or event, with a "Target and Hunting" LTC A?

And, what can I do to get this restriction removed?

Thanks.
 
Not much you can do. You can't fight it in court because you weren't denied. You can re-apply but a COP isn't likely to go against his/her own decision.

This topic has been covered extensively if you do a search.

And no you shouldn't carry concealed. On the off chance you get pulled over or searched on your way to the range you'll probably lose your license. I'm in the same boat as you, so I feel your pain.

There are some lawyers that lurk about on this board and their advice can be found. Just use the advanced search feature. And welcome aboard, sorry about your crippled license. [thinking]
 
Arcwelder said:
I had my reasons to move to MA, life is more than guns.
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huh? well I suppose some other things are important too.[wink]

I'm afraid you are out of luck on the "carry to the range" thing...

I have to say though, this is the first case of a liscense down grade I've heard of. ususally if you move to a more restrictive town with and ALP the new chief will honor that and continue to give ALP. I guess the State police don't count....

Oh yeah, Welcome!
 
matt said:
I have to say though, this is the first case of a liscense down grade I've heard of. ususally if you move to a more restrictive town with and ALP the new chief will honor that and continue to give ALP. I guess the State police don't count....
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Not so at all! I know a lot of people that have been downgraded in their same town when a new chief came in! They treat each renewal essentially the same as a brand new applicant.

Arcwelder, welcome to the forum! You could have used Atty Jesse Cohen's seminar on how to get a LTC-A/ALP from difficult chiefs. Notice of this seminar is posted in the Gun Laws forum . . . as is info on license restrictions, etc.
 
LenS said:
Not so at all! I know a lot of people that have been downgraded in their same town when a new chief came in! They treat each renewal essentially the same as a brand new applicant.
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Yikes! I was under the impression that this could be challanged in court as "rights being taken away" so that COP's didn't do this... suppose I shouldn't be surprised.
 
LTCs are "discretionary" per MGLs and therefore the chief is free to do anything (or nothing) that they would like, as long as they don't discriminate against Federally protected classes of citizens . . . and gun owners are not a "protected species"!
 
Arcwelder said:
... Only "Target and Hunting" for me. Forkin' great.

Question for you fella's: Can I lawfully carry concealed when I'm taking numerous firearms to and from the range? I'm going to feel very, very naked with a pile of guns in the trunk and not one on my hip.

Now that my right to carry has been neutered, I'm not happy. I had my reasons to move to MA, life is more than guns. I just feel sad currently, as I can CCW in CT and NH, yet not in MA.

SO, can one carry when to and from a range or event, with a "Target and Hunting" LTC A?
...
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I think concealed is out. But I don't know of a law that says you can't carry at all. This is in your own car, not in a Stop and Shop or anything like that (not that THAT is illegal either).

Oh, and for you internet "whatif-ers", don't bother mentioning your supposed theoretical brandishing a gun argument or the suggesting I (or he) go ahead and be your test case. Give it a rest already. This is neither advice nor suggestion, but just simply stating facts.


By the way, what town?
 
No he didn't, but rather.
He held a Massachusetts License to Carry Firearms (LTC) for All Lawful Purposes from 1995 to 1998 issued by the town of Middleboro.
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And his windbreaker simply brushing aside to show that he had a firearm caused his ordeal.

I will caution the original poster....

Time-after-time, Coyote has had these wonderful ideas of what is allowed in the state of MA. Yet, has NEVER and I repeat NEVER put his money where his mouth is, and tested his "theory's" about MA law.

Weather or not it is TECHNICALLY legal, for you to do something, your LTC in this state is 100% held at the discretion of the Chief of Police. If for ANY reason, he finds you to be (in his mind) and let me repeat FOR ANY REASON unsuitable, he can revoke your privilege FOR LIFE!

So.... Coyote, put up... Or shut up!
 
Adam_MA said:
...
I will caution the original poster....
... has had these wonderful ideas of what is allowed in the state of MA....
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Oh, you mean state what the law allows? You must have missed the part about this particular instance, not some guy with a windbreaker. You also missed the part about butting out if you have nothing new to add. (-:
 
Mod Hat On!

Coyote!

KNOCK IT OFF, NOW!

Giving bad advice to people who are asking what they can do WITHOUT getting into trouble is in direct violation of the rules here. Just because there is no law that says "thou shall not carry openly" or "thou shall not carry empty" does NOT mean that it won't cause legal troubles.

LEOs attend firearms law refresher classes and I know what they are told about people carrying openly or with a "less than LTC-A/ALP permit". We can't afford to have NES members lose their LTCs because YOU WANT TO MAKE A POINT ON HOW IT SHOULD BE!

If you want to continue here, smarten up and fly straight!

The Management!
 
Sorry... I just saw something that I've never heard before. Carrying empty? Not that it makes any sense at all... but why is that a problem?
 
Lugnut, some ill-informed folks want to push the envelope and thus take the approach that since the law doesn't specifically say that you can't carry an unloaded gun, "it must be OK"!

It IS NOT OK! And it can get someone in a world of legal trouble. That's why I stated what I did. It's been covered here many times and Advanced Search can find it all. Let's let that die, OK? Thanks.
 
Coyote33 said:
That guy had a "LTC-A hunting and target", and was carrying in his car? If not, it does NOT APPLY HERE, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

.
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True, but I think what people are driving at here is that Joe got persecuted
for something that's not breaking a law, and recieved an "administrative"
penalty as a result (Loss of License). Open carry places you at
considerable peril in MA, period. Even if the end result is not a criminal
record, it could result in loss of your LTC and possibly loss of ownership
rights here. The point is- if they can do this to someone with A/ALP,
then whats to stop them from doing something equivalent or worse with a
restricted license?

It's become clear the only way to avoid getting problems in this state
is not to attract any undue attention with your firearm, at just about
any cost, assuming one wants to still own guns here.


-Mike
 
Coyote33 said:
So much for exercising one's rights. Sounds more like excising them.
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Yeah, we don't want you yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theatre, too. Imagine that. [rolleyes]

Tell ya what. Why don't you take a stroll on the Boston Commons some lunch time with your favorite pistol strapped on your hip with no covering garment.

Once you get out of jail, tell us what happened.
 
dwarven1 said:
Tell ya what. Why don't you take a stroll on the Boston Commons some lunch time with your favorite pistol strapped on your hip with no covering garment.

Once you get out of jail, tell us what happened.
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Yeah; lets see Coyote howl at THAT moon....

"Out of the closets and into the streets! Out of the closets and into the streets!"

- Dog Day Afternoon
 
dwarven1 said:
Yeah, we don't want you yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theatre, too. Imagine that. [rolleyes]

Tell ya what. Why don't you take a stroll on the Boston Commons some lunch time with your favorite pistol strapped on your hip with no covering garment.

Once you get out of jail, tell us what happened.
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That's kinda a poor example.... The "limitations" to free speech were
designed under the notional of reasonable regulation. There is no such
notion as far as the 2nd amendment is concerned. The overwhelming
majority of every state and federal gun law to see print is
not anywhere close to being reasonable, in the context of the INTENT
of the 2nd amendment. A state saying that open carry is not legal,
definitely is NOT reasonable regulation. Neither is having to
ask permission from the Government to buy a gun or to
carry one.

That being said- I view this kind of thing as more of a practical
issue. Sure he can go right ahead and "try" to exercise his
rights, it's just going to be extremely "expensive" for him to do so, in
practical terms. This isn't like NH where someone might whine at
you about open carry, but you essentially cannot be arrested. The
"practical peril" of excercising your rights in NH is dramatically
reduced compared to MA. The less respect one's state has for
such rights, the harder it is to legally exercise them. While its
nice to do something "on principle" the net losses personally are
likely to outweigh any percieved gain, even for the whole.


-Mike
 
SiameseRat said:
Oh yeah- and since you're new here I'll let it slide, but you might want to take note that there are a couple of us evil womenfolk on board and we can actually answer your questions, too. [wink] [smile]
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Yes, but he wanted CORRECT answers.

And in the kinder, gentler way that only we can provide....... [wink]
 
dwarven1 said:
Yeah, we don't want you yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theatre, too. Imagine that. [rolleyes]

Tell ya what. Why don't you take a stroll on the Boston Commons some lunch time with your favorite pistol strapped on your hip with no covering garment.

Once you get out of jail, tell us what happened.
Click to expand...

Scrivener said:
Yeah; lets see Coyote howl at THAT moon....

"Out of the closets and into the streets! Out of the closets and into the streets!"

- Dog Day Afternoon
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Why don't you both go back and read post #7 which said:
Coyote33 said:
I think concealed is out. But I don't know of a law that says you can't carry at all. This is in your own car, not in a Stop and Shop or anything like that (not that THAT is illegal either).

Oh, and for you internet "whatif-ers", don't bother mentioning your supposed theoretical brandishing a gun argument or the suggesting I (or he) go ahead and be your test case. Give it a rest already. This is neither advice nor suggestion, but just simply stating facts....
Click to expand...

We're talking about in the car here. We're NOT talking about some guy in a windbreaker. Different circumstances.






By the way, I am also a fan of Scriv's. He has a lot to offer and I agree with most of what he says.






Scrivener said:
Nothing.

Stop contaminating a perfectly good argument with niggling facts.


That's MY job!
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For a brief second there, I thought that was in response to my original post. That is the case after all.
 
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Even carrying in your own car can lead to trouble you don't need. Some lib-tard pulls up next to you at a traffic light in a SUV that gives them a "birds eye" view into your car, sees the gun and calls 911.

You will likely have an unpleasant encounter from that too.

It's not really a case of being "right" or "wrong" under the law, it's a case of "suitability" that can nail your ass to the wall if someone (LE) presses the point . . . and they are being taught to do that as they hate these nuisance calls ("man with a gun"). If we step back and try to see it from their perspective it is somewhat understandable . . . it ties up resources for no good reason and thus prevents them from spending time doing anything more productive.
 
LenS said:
... . . and they are being taught to do that as they hate these nuisance calls ("man with a gun"). ...
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So, what you are saying is that because people have gotten used to not seeing people with a gun that ..


they should get used to not seeing people with a gun?


I hope you don't support that way of thinking. Maybe it is just the closeness to Boston which is affecting you more. I'd much rather get the response which we saw from that chief in NH from another thread on here. I also remember seeing something about losing our rights if we don't exercise them. Was that from you, Scriv?
 
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Coyote33 said:
We're talking about in the car here. We're NOT talking about some guy in a windbreaker. Different circumstances.
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Not to contaminate your argument with fact, but here's what the controlling statute says:

G.L.c. 140, § 131C. Carrying of firearms in a vehicle.

(a) No person carrying a loaded firearm under a Class A license issued under section 131 or 131F shall carry the same in a vehicle unless such firearm while carried therein is under the direct control of such person. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of $500.

(b) No person carrying a firearm under a Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of $500.
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As carrying in your car is not likely to be deemed use as target/hunting/sport or anything OTHER than protection, a restricted A would seem invalid for carrying loaded in a vehicle. A restricted A is essentially just a B that permits possession of "large capacity" handguns.

If you only have a B, you can't carry concealed. Period.

This brings us back to open carry, which is a disaster waiting to happen if you try it in a car and get stopped.
 
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