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Moved out of Mass. Gov't Wants My New Address

steve8140

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When I leave, I'll still be working in Mass,
so I would apply for a Non Resident Permit.
Like it or not, I'm tied to Mass :-(
This is how it is for me. We’re moving to NH in 9 days from now. I’ll be working both states and we both have family here and will be applying for the MA non-resident LTC.
With the amount of bullshit already involved in the state I’ll still notify my town and the state.
I wonder what they would do if I leave the new residence blank. I doubt I’d ever hear a word about it.
 

rudiewhitebwoy

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This is how it is for me. We’re moving to NH in 9 days from now. I’ll be working both states and we both have family here and will be applying for the MA non-resident LTC.
With the amount of bullshit already involved in the state I’ll still notify my town and the state.
I wonder what they would do if I leave the new residence blank. I doubt I’d ever hear a word about it.
Put in 1060 W Addison St, Chicago, IL 60613.
 

greencobra

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I didn't read the whole thread so that being said....if any government entity wants to locate you I would think they could run a social security number and find your location in minutes unless your new free state doesn't require the use of one.
 
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So, I read the chapters and sections of relevant law. Here are my notes:
  • Section 11: Failure to notify my issuing authority and the executive director of criminal history systems board “shall be cause for revocation or suspension of such card.’
  • Section 12: This one is tough to understand. There’s a chance I could be subject to a as much as a $5k fine if a LEO finds me with a rifle or shotgun after my license has expired.
Yes. but note that revocation for failure to file a change of address" is considered less bad than revocation for other reasons, since it dies nullify the protection from criminal conviction provided by an expired LTC or FID.

There are some who claim licenses "self revoke" when you move out of state but none have yet been able to offer proof beyond "I know", "Someone told me" or the classic "I'd like to see you be the test case.". No law, court opinion, or decision establishing this has yet surfaced that we know of.
 
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Perhaps it is so they can claim you are still a MA resident because you visit the state once in a while or work from home at an out of state location.
 
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Update. I sent them a letter, notifying them of my change of address. I gave them my old address, old (MA) driver's license number, old ltc A number, and that was it.

Got a call today from the Dept. Of firearms records, which I didn't pick up, anticipating that they'd leave a message. They left no message. So, I called back, interested to see what they wanted, and was informed that it was the law to fill out and send the form with my new address. I informed the gentleman that he was wrong, that I'd read the law, and that the only requirement is a certified letter informing them of any change of address, with no requirement mentioned of a new address having be provided, which is especially true now that I'm no longer a MA resident. His authority as a very powerful government ruler must not be challenged often, because he became upset, and said he wasn't going to argue with me.

I asked how one could simply cancel their license, as if I was still in state, had sold all my guns, and didn't want to keep the license active any longer. He said to contact my local PD. So, I suppose I'll give that a shot tomorrow.

Edit: for everybody making the point that they could find me if they wanted, I have no doubt that's true. However, this is a matter of principle. MA can f*** right off with their bullshit, and if my noncompliance with their unlawful "laws", per the constitution, wastes enough of their time that even one of these people thinks, "maybe we've gone too far", I guess that'll be some kind of win.
 
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I asked how one could simply cancel their license, as if I was still in state, had sold all my guns, and didn't want to keep the license active any longer. He said to contact my local PD. So, I suppose I'll give that a shot tomorrow.
The term of art is "expire" the license. You do not want it "revoked". But, there is no real benefit to having it expired early except on an in-state move from a red to a green town.

It is interesting that the FRB will not expire a license just because they received an out of state change of address.
 

peterk123

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Update. I sent them a letter, notifying them of my change of address. I gave them my old address, old (MA) driver's license number, old ltc A number, and that was it.

Got a call today from the Dept. Of firearms records, which I didn't pick up, anticipating that they'd leave a message. They left no message. So, I called back, interested to see what they wanted, and was informed that it was the law to fill out and send the form with my new address. I informed the gentleman that he was wrong, that I'd read the law, and that the only requirement is a certified letter informing them of any change of address, with no requirement mentioned of a new address having be provided, which is especially true now that I'm no longer a MA resident. His authority as a very powerful government ruler must not be challenged often, because he became upset, and said he wasn't going to argue with me.

I asked how one could simply cancel their license, as if I was still in state, had sold all my guns, and didn't want to keep the license active any longer. He said to contact my local PD. So, I suppose I'll give that a shot tomorrow.

Edit: for everybody making the point that they could find me if they wanted, I have no doubt that's true. However, this is a matter of principle. MA can f*** right off with their bullshit, and if my noncompliance with their unlawful "laws", per the constitution, wastes enough of their time that even one of these people thinks, "maybe we've gone too far", I guess that'll be some kind of win.
I will say it again, F* Mass tell them nothing and never ever return. I am months away from leaving this piece of crap state. I will never return and it is none of their business where I go. Think about it for a second. Why does it matter to them? Are they going to reach out to the state that I am moving to? The state I am going to will probably tell Mass to to go screw themselves. Nevermind the fact that there is no way that this state is organized enough or staffed enough to waste their time on this.
 

namedpipes

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The term of art is "expire" the license. You do not want it "revoked". But, there is no real benefit to having it expired early except on an in-state move from a red to a green town.

It is interesting that the FRB will not expire a license just because they received an out of state change of address.

If one moves out of Mass and notifies the pd and frb, is the Mass LTC still valid until it's natural expiration date? (As in, one can continue to cc as usual until then WITHOUT having obtained a Mass noon resident LTC)
 

steve8140

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If one moves out of Mass and notifies the pd and frb, is the Mass LTC still valid until it's natural expiration date? (As in, one can continue to cc as usual until then WITHOUT having obtained a Mass noon resident LTC)
From what I understand it’s a grey area.

They don’t expire your LTC so technically it remains valid. However you are no longer a resident and the info on the LTC won’t match your drivers license.

someone with more expertise can correct me if I’m wrong but I think it’s just a civil fine if you get caught.

If you still have a LTC you could still use it for buying ammo since all you do is show the staff.
 

namedpipes

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From what I understand it’s a grey area.

They don’t expire your LTC so technically it remains valid. However you are no longer a resident and the info on the LTC won’t match your drivers license.

someone with more expertise can correct me if I’m wrong but I think it’s just a civil fine if you get caught.

If you still have a LTC you could still use it for buying ammo since all you do is show the staff.

I know once it's expired, the civil fine but it's true. I wondered if it remains valid in full force until expiration, as in no fine
 

42!

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I know once it's expired, the civil fine but it's true. I wondered if it remains valid in full force until expiration, as in no fine
Even if it is valid, and that's big if, if you get involved in something that has them looking you can bet it will get revoked, and you will forever have to say you had an LTC revoked. Some other states care, some don't.
 
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Even if it is valid, and that's big if, if you get involved in something that has them looking you can bet it will get revoked, and you will forever have to say you had an LTC revoked. Some other states care, some don't.

It seems to me like you can't win? Like, even if I gave them my new address, what would happen to the LTC? Eventually itd expire, and become revoked since I didn't keep massachusetts updated on every aspect of my life each 6 years? Once you're in the system, they have to know where your live until you die, or they can revoke your LTC?
 

steve8140

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There’s a big difference between “expired” and “revoked” like someone above me said.

Most forms wether state or federal ask you if you’ve ever had your license denied or revoked.

I guess it only affects you IF you’re still dealing with the state at all. If you leave and never come back then that’s a different story.
 
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There’s a big difference between “expired” and “revoked” like someone above me said.

Most forms wether state or federal ask you if you’ve ever had your license denied or revoked.

I guess it only affects you IF you’re still dealing with the state at all. If you leave and never come back then that’s a different story.
Right, but if they revoke it because I never told them where I moved to, and I apply for an LTC in another state and that state finds out that it was revoked, then I have to take MA to court over the meaning of, "notification of any change of address", since they've apparently assumed that simply telling them my address has changed to out of state isn't a notification that my address has changed.
 

dcmdon

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You mean they could find me if they wanted to? Yes, of course, I'd thought about that. My issue with the registry is that it's a purpose-built tool. If they wanted to go to the trouble of searching my name in a drivers license database, sure, go for it. I'm not inclined to keep the firearms registry updated, though!
Your whole premise is wrong.

Its not a registry. Its a system that tracks transactions. It sounds like no difference, but its HUGE. The database they keep is not even close to correct for the following reasons. There are more reasons, this is just off the top of my head LEGAL ways that your actions can create errors.

1) if you sell a gun out of state, the gun never comes out of your name.
2) I'm told that even if you eFA10 it to another person it still remains with you, but I'm not sure of this.

3) if you moved into the state with guns, they don't know what you have
4) if you owned guns before this system was created they don't know what you have.

So this registry is not something where a cop can show up at your door and say, the database says you have a Glock 93. We want to inspect it.

Considering that any cop can find your new address in about 3 seconds and the fact that you may want to get a MA LTC again either as a resident or non-resident, then I'd just give them the address.

Conversely, if you had planned ahead, you could have just turned it in right after you moved and told them that you decided you hated guns and no longer want it.
 
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From what I understand it’s a grey area.

They don’t expire your LTC so technically it remains valid. However you are no longer a resident and the info on the LTC won’t match your drivers license.

someone with more expertise can correct me if I’m wrong but I think it’s just a civil fine if you get caught.

If you still have a LTC you could still use it for buying ammo since all you do is show the staff.
The law says yes, as there is nothing that "Autovoids" the license. And, if ithe license were revoked for failure to file a change of address, the offense would be civil, not criminal.

There are of course, self-professed experts on NES who claim otherwise, but cannot cite any statutory or case law to back up their position.

There is also the danger that an officer examining the LTC and driving license could {him/her/it}self be a self professed expert who believes in this "auto expiring" license.
 

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If one moves out of Mass and notifies the pd and frb, is the Mass LTC still valid until it's natural expiration date? (As in, one can continue to cc as usual until then WITHOUT having obtained a Mass noon resident LTC)
They don’t expire your LTC so technically it remains valid. However you are no longer a resident and the info on the LTC won’t match your drivers license.
Totally unlike if you move from one Mass town to another Mass town,
and give proper notice of the move?

... this registry is not something where a cop can show up at your door and say, the database says you have a Glock 93. We want to inspect it.
More likely: the Glock 93 gets passed around like a case of herpes,
giving the cops a pretext to show up at everyone's door demanding to inspect it.
 

dcmdon

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Totally unlike if you move from one Mass town to another Mass town,
and give proper notice of the move?


More likely: the Glock 93 gets passed around like a case of herpes,
giving the cops a pretext to show up at everyone's door demanding to inspect it.
I sold it. I can't remember where. But it was out of state. Ill let you know if I remember.
 

namedpipes

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Right, but if they revoke it because I never told them where I moved to, and I apply for an LTC in another state and that state finds out that it was revoked, then I have to take MA to court over the meaning of, "notification of any change of address", since they've apparently assumed that simply telling them my address has changed to out of state isn't a notification that my address has changed.
Just tell them you're homeless now, camping in the wilderness of Maine it something. You've answered, they're happy, move on. Take a brief, overnight camping trip in Maine if you want supporting documentation.
 

Sniper (+)

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I think we should fill up their firearm transaction database with thousands and thousands of bad records. We each should sell our guns to someone else here on NES, and that other person should then sell the same firearm to someone else here on NES, and so on, and so on. And then the original owner buys it back from the last person. But do it fast enough so the firearm doesn't have to leave the original owners possession. I know we non-FFLs can only can sell 4x a year (?) to non-FFLs so we need some FFLs to help out
Everyone seems to think since nothing is ever removed it takes an entire state police barracks 3 days to sift thru it to find the history of a gun. Uhh no, it takes one line of code like.. $result = mysql_query("SELECT * FROM guns WHERE serialnumber is = $serial ORDER BY recorddate ASC"); and 1/30th of a millisecond to make it puke out the last person that has whatever gun. You could xfer 1 gun back and forth 50,000 times and no one in front of a screen will even notice any lag on displaying who has that gun right now.

You would just be wasting your time and no one at the FRB will even notice you wasted it.
 

namedpipes

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Everyone seems to think since nothing is ever removed it takes an entire state police barracks 3 days to sift thru it to find the history of a gun. Uhh no, it takes one line of code like.. $result = mysql_query("SELECT * FROM guns WHERE serialnumber is = $serial ORDER BY recorddate ASC"); and 1/30th of a millisecond to make it puke out the last person that has whatever gun. You could xfer 1 gun back and forth 50,000 times and no one in front of a screen will even notice any lag on displaying who has that gun right now.

You would just be wasting your time and no one at the FRB will even notice you wasted it.

What about all the guns with no serial numbers or bearing the same serial number? Nothing prevents different manufacturers from using the same numbers as some other manufacturer. Actually I'm not certain that still IS true but it absolutely WAS, so the problem exists.

You can order the report on what you own from frb. It will list everything you ever owned even if you later sold it, less those that they forgot about or misfiled
 

42!

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You can order the report on what you own from frb. It will list everything you ever owned even if you later sold it, less those that they forgot about or misfiled
That's because it's not a gun registry, at least that's what they say and they have to maintain that appearance. It's a transaction record. so there is no "removing" it. You can file another transaction that says you sold the gun, but the record of the purchase will still be there.
 
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Everyone seems to think since nothing is ever removed it takes an entire state police barracks 3 days to sift thru it to find the history of a gun. Uhh no, it takes one line of code like.. $result = mysql_query("SELECT * FROM guns WHERE serialnumber is = $serial ORDER BY recorddate ASC"); and 1/30th of a millisecond to make it puke out the last person that has whatever gun. You could xfer 1 gun back and forth 50,000 times and no one in front of a screen will even notice any lag on displaying who has that gun right now.

You would just be wasting your time and no one at the FRB will even notice you wasted it.

Well, I'm not suggesting to do this nor advocating to do this in any shape/form, but a simple javascript function can repetitively submit a sale/transfer/loss of firearm via the gun portal.

1. Load URL: https://mircs.chs.state.ma.us/fa10/...n=presentInitPersonalSaleTransfer&page=1&bod=< unique # >
2, This will generate unique "bod" input key
3. As it is an ACTUAL/LEGITIMATE sale of a firearm, populate inputs and submit form below also invoke any submits/confirms in subsequent html pages (even by javascript clicking a link received in email if required), to finish the recording process
4. Repeat submission forever, maybe add a random pause <24hrs between submits to allow for the decision time that you don't like the firearm and decide to sell again
4a. Accidentally and randomly, because of your dyslexia, transpose single letters within the first/last name, or a digit within the SN, over time the names/SNs will be completely different.
5. If they pull from DB in 1/30th of a millisecond, yeah but less than 24 hours later, the possession data will be wrong.
6. A few years later, septillions^3 of submissions later, that MySQL database will be so full of actual transactions yet so far gone it wont be funny
7. They can still from DB in 1/10th of a millisecond, yeah but that DB will be so full of bogus yet true data
8. Use a Dominion server to do all this

HTML:
<form name="personalSaleTransferForm" method="post" action="/fa10/action/personal_sale_transfer">
<input type="hidden" name="app_context" value="personal_sale_transfer">
<input type="hidden" name="app_action" value="verifySellerBuyer">
<input type="hidden" name="page" value="2">
<input type="hidden" name="bod" value="1616945159105">


    <div class="bd-ct-instructions">
        Enter the requested information in the form below. Please note that "<span class="requiredFieldMarker">*</span>" denotes a required field. Use the "Help" function located in the top right-hand corner for assistance.
    </div>



    <div class="bd-sec">
    
        <div class="bd-sec-hd">
            Seller Information
        </div>
    
        <div class="bd-sec-ct">

            <table class="form-table" width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
                <col width="25%"/>
                <col width="75%"/>
            <fieldset>
                <legend>Seller Information</legend>
                <tbody>
                    <tr>
                        <td class="label"><label for="sellerInfo.licenseNumber">FID/LTC License No.</label>:<span class="requiredFieldMarker">*</span></td>
                        <td class="data"><input type="text" name="sellerInfo.licenseNumber" value="" id="sellerInfo.licenseNumber"></td>
                    </tr>

                    <tr>
                        <td class="label"><label for="sellerInfo.enteredPin">PIN</label>:<span class="requiredFieldMarker">*</span></td>
                        <td class="data"><input type="password" name="sellerInfo.enteredPin" value="" id="sellerInfo.enteredPin"></td>
                    </tr>
                
                    <tr>
                        <td class="data" colspan="4">&nbsp;
                    </tr>
                
                    <tr>
                        <td class="data" colspan="4"><span class="smallInstructionText"><font color="red">*</font>&nbsp;If you have a <u>paper firearms license</u>: enter FID/LTC License No. (no PIN), then enter Last Name and Date of Birth.  Do NOT enter Last Name and Date of Birth if you have a credit card style license.                      </span></td>
                    </tr>
                
                    <tr>
                        <td class="label"><label for="sellerInfo.lastName">Last Name</label>:</td>
                        <td class="data"><input type="text" name="sellerInfo.lastName" value="" id="sellerInfo.lastName"></td>
                    </tr>

                    <tr>
                        <td class="label"><label for="sellerInfo.dateOfBirth">Date of Birth</label>:</td>
                        <td class="data">
                            <input type="text" name="sellerInfo.dateOfBirth" maxlength="10" size="10" value="" id="sellerInfo.dateOfBirth">
                            <br/><span class="smallInstructionText">(MMDDYYYY)</label></span>
                        </td>
                    </tr>
                
                </tbody>
            </fieldset>
            </table>
        </div>
    </div>

    <div class="bd-sec">

        <div class="bd-sec-hd">
            Buyer Information
        </div>
    
        <div class="bd-sec-ct">

            <table class="form-table" width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
                <col width="25%"/>
                <col width="75%"/>
    
                <fieldset>
                <legend>Buyer Information</legend>
                <tbody>
                    <tr>
                        <td class="label"><label for="buyerInfo.licenseNumber">FID/LTC License No.</label>:<span class="requiredFieldMarker">*</span></td>
                        <td class="data"><input type="text" name="buyerInfo.licenseNumber" value="" id="buyerInfo.licenseNumber"></td>
                    </tr>

                    <tr>
                        <td class="label"><label for="buyerInfo.lastName">Last Name</label>:<span class="requiredFieldMarker">*</span></td>
                        <td class="data"><input type="text" name="buyerInfo.lastName" value="" id="buyerInfo.lastName"></td>
                    </tr>

                    <tr>
                        <td class="label"><label for="buyerInfo.dateOfBirth">Date of Birth</label>:<span class="requiredFieldMarker">*</span></td>
                        <td class="data">
                            <input type="text" name="buyerInfo.dateOfBirth" maxlength="10" size="10" value="" id="buyerInfo.dateOfBirth">
                            <br/><span class="smallInstructionText">(MMDDYYYY)</label></span>
                        </td>
                    </tr>
                
                    <tr>
                        <td class="data" colspan="2">(OR)</td>
                    </tr>

                    <tr>
                        <td class="label"><label for="buyerInfo.dealerStateLicenseNumber">State Firearms Dealer License No.</label>:<span class="requiredFieldMarker">*</span></td>
                        <td class="data"><input type="text" name="buyerInfo.dealerStateLicenseNumber" value="" id="buyerInfo.dealerStateLicenseNumber"></td>
                    </tr>
                </fieldset>

                </tbody>
            </table>
        </div>
    </div>





    <div class="bd-ct-ft">
        <span class="actions-area">
            <input type="submit" value="Continue &#187;" title="Continue &#187;">
        </span>
        <span class="actions-area-left">
    <img src="/fa10/images/cancel.gif" alt="Cancel Transaction" height="12px" width="12px">&nbsp;<a href="/fa10/action/home?app_context=home&app_action=presentTrans" onclick="return confirmCancelTransaction()">Cancel Transaction</a>
</span>

    </div>

</form>
 
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If I moved to a free state with 0 plans to move back to MA, I probably wouldn’t bother notifying MA...

Same... Go eff yourself MA... What happens with guns not within the border of the CommieNoWealth is not of your concern and your laws have no effect and are unenforceable here.. So eat a bag of dicks...
 
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