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Mossberg shockwave

DarkJoker33

DarkJoker33

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Can i legally go out of state and buy one and then due the proper registering procedure here in Massachusetts without filing for a tax stamp?

And by shockwave, i mean the proper small one.
Or the rosebox/night stick version
 
DarkJoker33 said:
Can i legally go out of state and buy one and then due the proper registering procedure here in Massachusetts without filing for a tax stamp?

And by shockwave, i mean the proper small one.
Or the rosebox/night stick version
Click to expand...
What a confuddled question. It is a firearm federally but not a shotgun or rifle so you can only acquire in your state of residence. If you are a resident of another state, then yes, while residing in that state.

If you lawfully acquire one yes you can bring it back to Ma. Yes you have to register it within 7 days. No you don’t need a tax stamp since we already determined it is not a shotgun so can’t be a short barreled shotgun in need of a tax stamp. You would have gotten the tax stamp before purchase if so required.

But since you did not lead with “I am a resident of MA and NH” or equivalent none of this matters
 
He is talking about following the "registering procedure here in Massachusetts" so I assume that means he is a resident of Mass. You would only register a gun in the state where you are a resident.
 
Just to follow up on @CrackPot. Think of the 14 3/8 in shockwave as a pistol that is not on the MA approved firearms roster. If you can get one, it is legal to own it in MA, but (ignoring frame transfers since they don’t apply to the Shockwave) there is no FFL in or out of state who will transfer one to you. Out of state it will have to go to an in state FFL (since it isn’t a long gun) and in state no FFL can transfer it since it isn’t on the approved firearms roster. If an individual sold you one out of state, they would be breaking Federal law since it is considered a “firearm”, not a rifle or shotgun (in other words, the same as a pistol), so it must go through a FFL in the buyer’s state of residence.

Also, just like an off roster pistol, if you have dual state residency or acquired it while living out of state you can bring it back to MA and register it (note: if you are actually moving into MA from out of state you don’t need to “register" any of your guns).
 
cathouse01 said:
Just to follow up on @CrackPot. Think of the 14 3/8 in shockwave as a pistol that is not on the MA approved firearms roster. If you can get one, it is legal to own it in MA, but (ignoring frame transfers since they don’t apply to the Shockwave) there is no FFL in or out of state who will transfer one to you. Out of state it will have to go to an in state FFL (since it isn’t a long gun) and in state no FFL can transfer it since it isn’t on the approved firearms roster. If an individual sold you one out of state, they would be breaking Federal law since it is considered a “firearm”, not a rifle or shotgun (in other words, the same as a pistol), so it must go through a FFL in the buyer’s state of residence.

Also, just like an off roster pistol, if you have dual state residency or acquired it while living out of state you can bring it back to MA and register it (note: if you are actually moving into MA from out of state you don’t need to “register" any of your guns).
Click to expand...
Close

federally it’s an “other” not the same as a pistol. Key is that it is not a shotgun or rifle.

It can be handled like a frame transfer. It’s a receiver transfer.
 
This is often a point of confusion.

It's a federal law issue and it looks like it's already been clarified here by many users - rifles and shotguns only, at an FFL only, if you are outside your state of residency. Note that "rifles" and "shotguns" do NOT include SBR or SBS, or any other NFA item... those too must be purchased (that is, transferred to you from an FFL) in your state of residence.

I would point something else out... something I ran into somewhat frequently as a MA dealer, but isn't discussed much.

A 12ga weapon, with an 18" or greater barrel, and pistol grip or birdshead grip with no shoulder stock, is not a "shotgun" according to the feds. You hear these called these a "pistol grip only" or "PGO shotgun" but the feds consider it a "firearm" the same as the so-called Shockwave guns with the 14" barrel, no shoulder stock, and an OAL over 26".

This means you cannot legally buy a 12ga weapon outside of your state of residency unless it has both a shoulder stock AND an 18" or greater barrel length. That means you cannot buy the Remington and Mossberg "pistol grip only" 12ga and 20ga weapons with 18" barrels which have been marketed for decades, and most of us colloquially call "shotguns", out of state.

Now... according to the state of MA, a 12ga weapon with an 18" or greater barrel, and a pistol grip but no shoulder stock, IS a "shotgun". So if you want one, you can buy one off the shelf in MA, or have one transferred from an out of state FFL or distributor to your in-state FFL dealer, without worrying about the approved firearm roster(s). Unless your dealer is an idiot.

Also note, in the state of MA, and under federal law, you can install a shoulder stock in place of the pistol grip on your "12ga weapon which has a greater-than-18" barrel" without issue; swap back and forth as often as you please, provided the over-all-length is greater than 26" (and I can't think of a configuration where you could have a shoulder stock and a shorter than 26" OAL). Also remember, under federal law OAL is measured with a folding or telescoping stock fully extended - not closed. This is not true of firearm or pistol "braces" however.
 
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So I have a question. As I read the law, a shotgun according to the Feds needs to be designed to be fired from the shoulder. Since the Shockwave isn’t intended to be fired from the shoulder, even the 18.5 in barreled version is still considered a “firearm” (per @Frizzle Fry above) by the Feds. Does that mean you can cut the barrel down to 14 in, or replace the 18.5 in barrel with the 14 3/8 in barrel and not have to NFA it as a short barreled shotgun (as long as the OAL is over 26 in)? Since the receiver was never a shotgun, I would think you could.
 
cathouse01 said:
So I have a question. As I read the law, a shotgun according to the Feds needs to be designed to be fired from the shoulder. Since the Shockwave isn’t intended to be fired from the shoulder, even the 18.5 in barreled version is still considered a “firearm” (per @Frizzle Fry above) by the Feds. Does that mean you can cut the barrel down to 14 in, or replace the 18.5 in barrel with the 14 3/8 in barrel and not have to NFA it as a short barreled shotgun (as long as the OAL is over 26 in)? Since the receiver was never a shotgun, I would think you could.
Click to expand...

IANAL but as I understand it (and have seen done by other smiths, dealers, and individuals) YES.

In a free state, a factory PGO "firearm" in 12ga, 20ga, .410, etc could be cut down to 14" as long as it came from the factory without a shoulder stock... and as long as you install the longer birdshead grip first, before assembling it with the newly-shorter barrel. I would expect to get jammed up by a LEO during an encounter with the weapon, however; if your barrel cut isn't exceptionally clean (factory look) a LEO will probably assume it's an SBS with no tax stamp despite your explanation.

In MA however this is a no-go. I know of at least one manufacturer who tried this method, but ran up against MGLs, the roster, and federal standards, and decided not to continue...

MGL definition is as follows;
“Sawed-off shotgun”, any weapon made from a shotgun, whether by alteration, modification or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length or as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.

Because MA considers a pistol-grip-only 18" barreled weapon in 12ga (or .20ga, .410, etc) to be a "shotgun" in its factory form, adding a birds head grip and installing a 14" barrel or cutting down the 18" barrel to 14" would result in a weapon which meets the state definition of a "sawed off shotgun" - despite maintaining federal status as a non-NFA "firearm". Very steep penalties for possessing a "sawed-off shotgun" in MA.
 
Frizzle Fry said:
In a free state, a factory PGO "firearm" in 12ga, 20ga, .410, etc could be cut down to 14" as long as it came from the factory without a shoulder stock... and as long as you install the longer birdshead grip first, before assembling it with the newly-shorter barrel. I would expect to get jammed up by a LEO during an encounter with the weapon, however; if your barrel cut isn't exceptionally clean (factory look) a LEO will probably assume it's an SBS with no tax stamp despite your explanation.
Click to expand...
Better yet, order the 14" barrel kit for 590, includes all the necessary action parts for a clean install on most PGO models, including a factory 14" heavy barrel with bead sight installed:
MS92514-1.jpg

The above was how most "Shockwave" style guns were made before it became a catalog item.

When these builds started to get popular around 2015-2016, Mossberg stopped sales on #MS92514 for a while, then brought it back at a higher price and with a bigger "beware the NFA" sticker on the box before going all-in and launching the factory shockwave model at SHOT 2017.
 
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Because OP posted this in Firearms and not Mass law, I'm assuming he's trying to actually buy one. Its worth pointing out that the Shockwave is difficult to use to the point of having minimal to no practical value. They're meme guns.

 
Frizzle Fry said:
IANAL but as I understand it (and have seen done by other smiths, dealers, and individuals) YES.

In a free state, a factory PGO "firearm" in 12ga, 20ga, .410, etc could be cut down to 14" as long as it came from the factory without a shoulder stock... and as long as you install the longer birdshead grip first, before assembling it with the newly-shorter barrel. I would expect to get jammed up by a LEO during an encounter with the weapon, however; if your barrel cut isn't exceptionally clean (factory look) a LEO will probably assume it's an SBS with no tax stamp despite your explanation.

In MA however this is a no-go. I know of at least one manufacturer who tried this method, but ran up against MGLs, the roster, and federal standards, and decided not to continue...

MGL definition is as follows;
“Sawed-off shotgun”, any weapon made from a shotgun, whether by alteration, modification or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length or as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.

Because MA considers a pistol-grip-only 18" barreled weapon in 12ga (or .20ga, .410, etc) to be a "shotgun" in its factory form, adding a birds head grip and installing a 14" barrel or cutting down the 18" barrel to 14" would result in a weapon which meets the state definition of a "sawed off shotgun" - despite maintaining federal status as a non-NFA "firearm". Very steep penalties for possessing a "sawed-off shotgun" in MA.
Click to expand...
Thanks.
 
CrackPot said:
What a confuddled question. It is a firearm federally but not a shotgun or rifle so you can only acquire in your state of residence. If you are a resident of another state, then yes, while residing in that state.

If you lawfully acquire one yes you can bring it back to Ma. Yes you have to register it within 7 days. No you don’t need a tax stamp since we already determined it is not a shotgun so can’t be a short barreled shotgun in need of a tax stamp. You would have gotten the tax stamp before purchase if so required.

But since you did not lead with “I am a resident of MA and NH” or equivalent none of this matters
Click to expand...
I assumed, i guess my first mistake.
That typing registering in Massachusetts, that would clarify that im a resident of said state.

Secondly, i guess i was mistaken on calling it a shotgun instead of an AOW, like it is.

Which i would have also questioned in the same manner stating,

Can i buy the AOW Mossberg shockwave 14.x inch in a free state(such as nh,vt or me) and return to Massachusetts and legally register it in my name?
 
C. Stockwell said:
Because OP posted this in Firearms and not Mass law, I'm assuming he's trying to actually buy one. Its worth pointing out that the Shockwave is difficult to use to the point of having minimal to no practical value. They're meme guns.

Click to expand...

You and I have talked about this and are in agreement, but there is definitely a use for a shockwave.
1620058871209.png
 
DarkJoker33 said:
Not for serious stuff.
Fun gun
Click to expand...

You'd probably get a lot more fun out of a SBR'd AR. Less recoil, an actual stock, and more practical at the range.

Whiskeywon said:
You and I have talked about this and are in agreement, but there is definitely a use for a shockwave.
View attachment 478945
Click to expand...

Like Ian mentioned in the video I linked to, sure, someone can use a Shockwave, or they can get a legal-as-shotgun shotgun and be better off in the vast majority of circumstances.

If we're talking SBSs, count me in for one Vepr, please.
 
DarkJoker33 said:
I assumed, i guess my first mistake.
That typing registering in Massachusetts, that would clarify that im a resident of said state.

Secondly, i guess i was mistaken on calling it a shotgun instead of an AOW, like it is.

Which i would have also questioned in the same manner stating,

Can i buy the AOW Mossberg shockwave 14.x inch in a free state(such as nh,vt or me) and return to Massachusetts and legally register it in my name?
Click to expand...
It is not an AOW which is an NFA item requiring a tax stamp. It is just "other", a non-NFA firearm with no subcategory.

As I said in my initial post, NO, you cannot buy it in another state because you can only buy a rifle or shotgun in another state. (by buy I assume you mean purchase and take possession of)

If you have it shipped to a FFL in MA (required since it is not a rifle or shotgun) than the question you have to ask is of your receiving FFL. It is lawful for you to buy it from a MA FFL or have it transferred to you by a MA FFL, but it is not lawful for that FFL to transfer or sell the gun to you under MA law (MGL 140 123 clauses 18-21) as it is not on the list.

All the info was in my initial response. You mixed and matched state and federal law/questions/names/issues in your initial question which is why I said "confuddled"
 
CrackPot said:
It is not an AOW which is an NFA item requiring a tax stamp. It is just "other", a non-NFA firearm with no subcategory.

As I said in my initial post, NO, you cannot buy it in another state because you can only buy a rifle or shotgun in another state. (by buy I assume you mean purchase and take possession of)

If you have it shipped to a FFL in MA (required since it is not a rifle or shotgun) than the question you have to ask is of your receiving FFL. It is lawful for you to buy it from a MA FFL or have it transferred to you by a MA FFL, but it is not lawful for that FFL to transfer or sell the gun to you under MA law (MGL 140 123 clauses 18-21) as it is not on the list.

All the info was in my initial response. You mixed and matched state and federal law/questions/names/issues in your initial question which is why I said "confuddled"
Click to expand...
Though to be fair to the OP, living in MA just means you exist in a “confuddled” state in regards to gun laws, since as far as I can tell, that is a prime goal of the state’s laws. And I was surprised when my auto spell accepted “confuddled” as a word and came to find out that it is considered a legitimate blend of confused and befuddled.
 
C. Stockwell said:
You'd probably get a lot more fun out of a SBR'd AR. Less recoil, an actual stock, and more practical at the range. Like Ian mentioned in the video I linked to, sure, someone can use a Shockwave, or they can get a legal-as-shotgun shotgun and be better off in the vast majority of circumstances.

If we're talking SBSs, count me in for one Vepr, please.
Click to expand...
There are edge cases, for example, in New Hampshire the barrel length makes this legal for loaded-in-motor-vehicle carry.

As for practicality, Remington offers their TAC14 with a Mesa Tactical arm brace if you want.
 
Kevin_NH said:
There are edge cases, for example, in New Hampshire the barrel length makes this legal for loaded-in-motor-vehicle carry.

As for practicality, Remington offers their TAC14 with a Mesa Tactical arm brace if you want.
Click to expand...
It is legal to carry concealed in MA also as it is a "firearm" under MA law which is the same as a handgun. You can also carry your SBR or SBS concealed in MA. Not recommending it as they will arrest and sort things out later, but given the definitions its good.
 
Kevin_NH said:
There are edge cases, for example, in New Hampshire the barrel length makes this legal for loaded-in-motor-vehicle carry.

As for practicality, Remington offers their TAC14 with a Mesa Tactical arm brace if you want.
Click to expand...

In my experience shooting braced rifles, I can safely say that I wouldn't want to shoot a braced short-barrel shotgun with typical home defense loads, like say buckshot or slugs or turkey loads. YMMV.

The logic in buying a Shockwave for general home defense purposes doesn't make sense to me because a Shockwave has a MSRP of $500, whereas a regular, polymer-stocked 500 is $459 MSRP. A normal 500 is a much more versatile gun in the long run because different barrel lengths and chokes are available. A normal 500 can be taken hunting or clays shooting, but a Shockwave would be basically a non-option. So, its a less effective gun overall for more money.

People mention a lot of specific circumstances in ways to rationalize the Shockwave, but like I said earlier, it's a meme gun, like a mare's leg.
 
CrackPot said:
It is legal to carry concealed in MA also as it is a "firearm" under MA law which is the same as a handgun. You can also carry your SBR or SBS concealed in MA. Not recommending it as they will arrest and sort things out later, but given the definitions its good.
Click to expand...
That brings up another advantage over a registered SBS or AOW -- no need to file a 5320.20
 
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CrackPot said:
It is legal to carry concealed in MA also as it is a "firearm" under MA law which is the same as a handgun. You can also carry your SBR or SBS concealed in MA. Not recommending it as they will arrest and sort things out later, but given the definitions its gM maybe but not according to the feds, It is over 26" if you conceal it, it would make it an AOW and an unregistered NFA item
Click to expand...
According to MA law you could conceal a shockwave but not federal law, over 26" if concealed it would make it an AOW, and unregistered NFA item
 
AMV said:
According to MA law you could conceal a shockwave but not federal law, over 26" if concealed it would make it an AOW, and unregistered NFA item
Click to expand...

The ATF is clear that it is a firearm under the GCA and not a firearm under NFA. They do say they get to make a new determination should you carry it concealed BUT it does not say it is an AOW if carried concealed. Do you have another reference after this guidance that does declare it an AOW under the NFA in the case of concealed carry? I could not find one.
 

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