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Mosin nagant question

Discussion in 'Mil Surp Collectors' started by PATRON, Aug 15, 2012.

  1. PATRON

    PATRON NES Life Member NES Member

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    I was at a gun shop today, and the guy behind the counter showed me a nagant PU sniper that he just took out of the box.I noticed that the bolt, had the turned down handle on the front.Has anyone ever seen this.Sorry I did not get any pictures.
     

  2. ColdDayInHell

    ColdDayInHell

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    Snipers would reform the bolt handle so they wouldn't have to get out of their ready position to chamber the next round. I believe that it is just a mod that a welder or someone in metals can do. I have read on other forums that people cut the bolt handle through at about a 45 deg. angle with a cutoff wheel. Then they rotated it 180 deg. and welded it back together so that it now comes down at a right angle.

    It is definitely an interesting rifle for sure. Can't tell you if it was issued like that or someone did it at home.
     
  3. flintoid

    flintoid Banned

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    There was a recent import of them that went to a bunch of vendors. So I would believe it if a local dealer picked one up, marked it up, and put it into their inventory.

    Eventually they will be "worth" their inflated asking prices. A bunch were imported, but not an infinite amount.
     
  4. Boris

    Boris Son of Kalashnikov NES Member

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    I don't get it, PU bolt is noramally bent, otherwise you can't work it because of the scope. How is this one different?
     
  5. peteyb

    peteyb

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    This. Glad Im not the only one confused, kept thinking I was missing something
     
  6. 50 BMG

    50 BMG Mosin Nagant Collector NES Member

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    pictures are needed

    [pics]

    All Mosin snipers have bent bolts. If the bolt had a section ground flat it was most likely a ATI bolt conversion and that style is used with the ATI mount. Its not original in that case. Another sign of a non original bolt is the bolt knob will sometimes appear as if it has a ring or opening around where the bolt shaft attaches. That is where some bolt remakes actually drill and tap the bolt handle, insert a machine screw into the bolt knob then attach the two.

    But without a picture, it tough to say.
     
  7. PATRON

    PATRON NES Life Member NES Member

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    3920070560_277deb8bb2.jpg OK,This rifle was still in the wholesalers packaging when he took it out to show me.As you can see in the picture.the bolt is where most stock PU bolt handles are, but this rifle had it mounted where I painted black on the bolt. Has anyone seen this done before?
     
  8. Mustang5L5

    Mustang5L5

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    Sounds like its been modified. I've never seen a real mosin with the handle up front at all.

    Lots of fake snipers out there too. Who was the wholesaler?


    Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk
     
  9. 50 BMG

    50 BMG Mosin Nagant Collector NES Member

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    OK this may sound crazy but did the guy put the bolt together backwards somehow?????? [hmmm]

    If the bolt handle was were you inserted the black paint its ....well a first for me. I would steer clear of that rifle..Just MO.
     
  10. Boris

    Boris Son of Kalashnikov NES Member

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    I think that more plausible answer is Bubba was high on bath salts when he welded it. The dealer pulling it out of the box is kind of interesting, I wander who is the manufacturer. This is actually pretty interesting.
     
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  11. B & K Sales LLC

    B & K Sales LLC Dealer NES Member

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    DSC_1605.jpg DSC_1601.jpg


    Here are pics of the 91/30 sniper with "funny" bolt.........
     
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  12. SKS Ray

    SKS Ray Moderator NES Member

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    Tough to tell but it looks like small holes in the bend.

    Who is the importer?

    Sent from my Ally using Tapatalk 2
     
  13. peteyb

    peteyb

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    Dont know any details about this but thanks for that pic Bamp, never seen/heard of this before
     
  14. PATRON

    PATRON NES Life Member NES Member

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    Thanks for the pictures,and it was very nice to meet you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2012
  15. dhuze

    dhuze NES Member

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    I agree it looks like it was welded on the wrong end. What does the rear of the bolt look like? Maybe it was made for a long armed sniper with no elbow.
     
  16. SKS Ray

    SKS Ray Moderator NES Member

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    Looking at the pics on my PC its definitely a cut and welded bolt. Those tiny holes in the metal are the give away. I'd like to see the entire bolt, especially where it should have originally been.
     
  17. Mustang5L5

    Mustang5L5

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    Would need to see it in person, but does look welded


    Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk
     
  18. WWII_Collector

    WWII_Collector

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    I don't know if I would shoot anything like that, looks a little unsafe?

    I guess not unsafe, just unnatural...
     
  19. Boris

    Boris Son of Kalashnikov NES Member

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    I've been scouring Russian sites in search of something similar without luck. The rifle is 100% legit, I've seen it but completely missed the bolt. Also, the bolt section seems correct, where it is attached, it's is reinforced, so I don't think that it's hack job. This is going to eat me away.
     
  20. flintoid

    flintoid Banned

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    it looks too good of work to be that of a US entrepreneur.

    The bolt "meat" gets thicker near the handle. You can see serialization, or some sort of stamp work, on the side of the bolt.

    If there's some proofs where the bolt "should" be, I'll take it as a one off, or a custom job from a plant. It obviously was welded and moved.... but who did it? If it's a soviet soldier's work, or a soviet armorer's, or a factory job, that would make it incredibly interesting.
     
  21. PATRON

    PATRON NES Life Member NES Member

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    I think back in Russia, there are a few guys laughing about this rifle,saying this is going to drive the Americans crazy.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2012
  22. Mustang5L5

    Mustang5L5

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    The hard part is trying to prove this was done by Ivan....and not Evan.


    Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk
     
  23. Boris

    Boris Son of Kalashnikov NES Member

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    well, that's exactly it, knowing where it come from, it didn't come from bubba's shop. Then it's about tracing it to the Motherland and trying to figure out provenance and purpose.

    The problem is that this will always have that "weirdness" hanging over it, until you write shitload of letters to the factory and may be some of the old timers come to say that "hey in 1944, we made 10 of these, because ... " and I have some guesses why, then you got 1 in a million rifle, but before that happens, it's going to be a lot of effort and you may not be lucky, afterall.
     
  24. B & K Sales LLC

    B & K Sales LLC Dealer NES Member

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    DSC_1640.jpg DSC_1641.jpg DSC_1642.jpg DSC_1643.jpg DSC_1644.jpg


    Any information about this piece would be helpful. This sniper was received from Royal Tiger. Have been trying to contact them to see if they had any more in same condition, they are not answering phone at this time and they are updating their website.


    Forget to mention, serial number on bolt matches receiver, butt plate and magazine.......not forced.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012
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  25. Mustang5L5

    Mustang5L5

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    That is kinda cool Nd different.

    Is it even usable and ergonomic in that location?


    Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk
     
  26. dhuze

    dhuze NES Member

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    Looking at the arsenal stamp in the last picture I'm inclined to believe it was probably done by a "new guy" and since all rifles were desperately needed it just got sent through.
     
  27. ARV

    ARV

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    If you drink enough Vodka, it looks just fine. [wink]
     
  28. PATRON

    PATRON NES Life Member NES Member

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    If you take a close look you can see the bolt started life as a Regular bolt,but the even aged patina is telling us that this modification was done a very long time ago.So all that is left is who did it, and why.
     
  29. Boris

    Boris Son of Kalashnikov NES Member

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    we know for a fact that rifle was one from a sizable lot that came here direct from Russia, via Eastern Europe. I really don't see why anybody would open the box along the way to confuse crazy capitalists by modifying the bolt than laughing their butts off.

    If this came from some Russian storage facility, then it was obviously deemed to be combat worthy. It's not likely that these were in private hands. This being 1944 It may have been decommissioned after the war and send to service somewhere else, like guard duty, training etc. and at some point returned to storage.

    Judging by the workmanship, someone has done an excellent job moding it. The bold is not only welded, by area around the joint is raised to get more "meat" around it. I'm not 100% if this was done after the bolt was stamped, but it does match the barrel.

    Would something like this be useful to a lefty? I'm trying to think logically, and even if this thing had not PU but say PE scope, it would make things worse. There has to be a reason why this was done.
     
  30. SKS Ray

    SKS Ray Moderator NES Member

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    I can't take it anymore... I sent a link over to the Mosin forum on Gunboards. Hopefully someone there has some info.
     

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