More on DNA not your own if you use the test, post 74 Ancestry Fights The US Govt As Feds Try To Grab DNA Data

timbo

Navy Veteran
NES Member
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
Joined
Dec 17, 2010
Messages
9,786
Likes
6,402
Location
Rt 3, NH
From what i hear, a LOT of people are finding out that they do NOT share the same two parents as their siblings have! They only share one. ;)
110% sure that's not the case in my immediate family.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
1,421
Likes
2,249
Location
Southwest NH

timbo

Navy Veteran
NES Member
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
Joined
Dec 17, 2010
Messages
9,786
Likes
6,402
Location
Rt 3, NH
Yes.....and any one tangentially related to you (cousins, notices, etc). The government is actively (and aggressively) using databases like these for law enforcement. Just ask the Golden State Killer:

The Golden State Killer Is Tracked Through a Thicket of DNA, and Experts Shudder

I remember when this happened...this was before my sister had it done...I tried to tell her the implications of what she wanted to do and sent her the article where this happened...she told me to take my tin foil hat off. Yup...she's stupid. She has always lived for the moment and has made some pretty bad life decisions over the years...but she won't listen to reason.
 

Artie

NES Member
Rating - 100%
12   0   0
Joined
Oct 29, 2011
Messages
2,887
Likes
1,955
Location
Bristol County
Most military that were operational during the Gulf War and onward had their DNA collected prior to and during deployment. I was a Corpsman on a carrier from 96 to 99 and collected the DNA samples during "Birth Month Recall" (health record review and immunizations). I was later told that most of the samples were poorly obtained, damaged or lost.

At the VA as a vet, you can volunteer for research purposes and have DNA collected for the Million Veteran Program. This is supposed to improve healthcare by establishing one of the largest databases of genetic, military exposure, lifestyle, and health information.

In summary, as a vet, your DNA probably has already been collected.
 

new guy

NES Member
Rating - 100%
57   0   0
Joined
Dec 7, 2009
Messages
22,076
Likes
17,388
I wonder if EU citizens could demand they delete it, or if the company could successfully claim a research exemption.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
3,670
Likes
1,113
Back in the golden days newborns have a drop of blood that was out on a card and filed away. Yup they've sequenced DNA from those decades old cards. Worse last I recall the courts were allowing swabs during traffic stops, haven't heard of that going on recently
 

PennyPincher

NES Member
Rating - 100%
12   0   0
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
11,949
Likes
4,362
Location
Texas
So, my younger sister had a test done because, she's stupid. Can a DNA company deduce from her results what my results would be like as we share the same parents??

I did find out through her results that I have WAY more Native American blood (well, "1st Nation" because my Great Grandmother, full blooded Iroquois, came from Canada) than granny warren does
they can't map out your DNA from hers but if your DNA was left at a crime scene and they could upload it and run it against the database held by that company (like GEDMatch allows) it would should you as a "close match" and a full sibling to her (assuming you are). Then the possibilities are limited to who the DNA at the crime scene belongs to - you and your siblings.
 

PennyPincher

NES Member
Rating - 100%
12   0   0
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
11,949
Likes
4,362
Location
Texas
That part is just stupid.

It is useful if your family has a history of some type of cancer, you can get tested to see if you too should be careful and take action now. I know a person who's mother had ovarian cancer, so she hurried, had kids and got everything removed because she had a high chance of also getting it.

If your family doesnt have a history of cancer or other diseases, then getting tested to find out if you might have a chance of getting something is plain stupid (from what I have been told by a few biologists and doctors). Apparently it is because the tests are not good when used in a generic way, they are good when targeting a specific disease.

My company now covers DNA testing, so I spoke with a few people about this and decided to not do it because it could cause more troubles than good. Not only by making me worry about stuff that might never happen, but also because it could potentially be used against me.
That's more likely genetic DNA testing. 23andMe does that and companies that do specific testing for genetic disease that you go through your doctor to access but most of the DNA testing companies for genealogy purposes do not do genetic/health testing.
 

PennyPincher

NES Member
Rating - 100%
12   0   0
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
11,949
Likes
4,362
Location
Texas
Thankfully nobody in my family has done it,which would by proxy means i might as well do it.
It doesn't have to be a family member like a sibling or parent. If enough of your 3rd cousins (or even 4th) test - you can be found. This is how the Golden State Killer was found. They figured out who his great great great grandparents were. When 2 people share 3xgreat grandparents, they are 4th cousins.
 

PennyPincher

NES Member
Rating - 100%
12   0   0
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
11,949
Likes
4,362
Location
Texas
I wonder if EU citizens could demand they delete it, or if the company could successfully claim a research exemption.
anyone who has their DNA voluntarily tested has the right to remove their results from any site it's on and ask that it be destroyed.
 

new guy

NES Member
Rating - 100%
57   0   0
Joined
Dec 7, 2009
Messages
22,076
Likes
17,388
Which is of course no guarantee that it will be, or that the company receiving the request must comply. Between statutory exemptions and contractual terms (initial consents) it’s an uphill battle.
 

Greg

NES Member
Rating - 100%
24   0   0
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
10,803
Likes
5,925
Location
Last seen chewing the bark off a tree
It doesn't have to be a family member like a sibling or parent. If enough of your 3rd cousins (or even 4th) test - you can be found. This is how the Golden State Killer was found. They figured out who his great great great grandparents were. When 2 people share 3xgreat grandparents, they are 4th cousins.
Great lol
 

Reptile

NES Member
Rating - 100%
96   0   0
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Messages
14,222
Likes
4,261
I’m far more concerned about DNA transfer than about being identified through a relative.

DNA that was incidentally transferred nearly resulted in a murder conviction:

Framed for Murder By His Own DNA
That is an amazing story!!!

In my opinion, based on my DNA alone - I do not have a problem with the pharma company getting the DNA records.

My DNA is everywhere. If anyone wanted it who didn't already have it - they need only go through my garbage for a used bottle or paper plate.

Some people in my family have already been tested by companies like 23 and Me.

There is no way to avoid this.

It is extremely unlikely that DNA would be used to convict me of a crime (that I did not do).
If accused and I am innocent - there will be tons of other evidence to help me.

I bet in the next 20 years, a person can clone another person who does not want to be cloned.
Say you like a girl a lot - well just scan her from a distance and you could create a baby from the scan.

That is where DNA is going.

The genie is out of the bottle.

I used to care more about DNA privacy but I am older now and I doubt much can be used against me for employment or any other reason.

By having big pharma studying all this data they will end up making cures for all sorts of conditions.
For that reason I think it is worth it.

I recognize that Big Pharma is evil but they have advanced health care in the world.

30 years ago people were dying from all sorts of horrible diseases that today are either cured or managed.

So many crimes are being solved by DNA and other forensics that the trade off with our loss of privacy is seeming to be to be worth it.

Only time will tell if I think that way in the future.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Dec 1, 2012
Messages
2,124
Likes
761
I work in a biotech research lab. I’m a software guy, not a biologist, so my knowledge of the biotech stuff is fair at best, so take this with a grain of salt. My response is “meh”.

23andme doesn’t perform genome sequencing. Genome sequencing tries to sequence your entire genome. That is, it is an attempt to read out the entire string of 3 billion A’s, C’s, T’s, and G’s that make up your genome. But 23andme doesn’t do that because it is still too expensive.

23andme does array-based genotyping. That is, they have a chip that has an array of the complement of a bunch of genetic variations. They chop up your dna into fragments and wash them over the chip. If you have a particular variation, then a fragment with that variation binds to the chip at that location. This type of genotyping only tells you whether you have one of the variations on the chip. In contrast, whole genome sequencing will find all* your variations. Array-based genotyping is quick, cheap, and produces a manageable amount of data. Whole genome sequencing, in contrast, produces enormous amounts of data and requires very robust computational pipelines typically running in the cloud.

As for the data itself, making associations between genotype (that is, the presence of a variation) and a disease based solely on self-reported health data seems to me to be of dubious value. I hope GSK is not paying 23andme a lot to access this data.

There are a number of large scale biobank projects that are far more likely to produce useful results. These are creating very large cohorts, are using whole genome sequencing, AND they have access to medical records. Here in the US the All Of Us project is just starting with the goal of sequencing 1M people. The UK Biobank has recruited 500k donors.

As for the privacy issue, I expect that the agreement with GSK is giving them deidentified data and requiring them to not release the genotype data. I would be far more concerned with law enforcement gaining access to 23andme data than GSK data.

If I had done 23andme (I haven’t), this agreement wouldn’t get my panties in a twist.

* Yes, whole genome sequencing still doesn’t get the ENTIRE genome. Certain areas with large strings of repeats are still hard to sequence and align.
Yes but do they take what they want and destroy your sample or do they keep it until someone with deep pockets (.gov) comes along to do the full sequence?
 
Rating - 100%
3   0   0
Joined
Jun 13, 2014
Messages
3,734
Likes
2,507
Location
NC defending a beach
So my kids were born in 2008 and 2009. Apparently they started doing DNA eating back then.

We got a call about my son. We were told that he had been identified as a carrier of Cystic Fibrosis and they were doing further testing to see if he would be affected by it. We had to wait a week sitting in pins and needles.

He’s just a carrier. But I gotta tell him before he procreates that he could pass it to his kids if his wife also carries it.

What sort of enraged me is that we were not told they were doing DNA testing and they couldn’t tell me if the data was saved (I’m sure it is).

On the other hand, I’m a carrier of CF. But I’ll never voluntarily give up my DNA despite the fact that they probably already have it.

Reminds me also of when the security guy came out to fix my system and said I could get a free upgrade to video monitoring for every room. I told him that my wife and I liked to f*** in the dining room table and being videotaped might ruin the mood.

And yet people install video cameras in their homes connected to a ‘security company’. Just like they install Alexa machines.

People are stupid. But that’s exactly why the world is the way it is.
 

rep308

NES Member
Rating - 100%
49   0   0
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
6,705
Likes
2,683
Location
inside the 495 Belt
I have a weird genetic condition, Dupuytren's (du-pwe-TRANZ) contracture, that causes primarily your pinky and ring fingers to curve in but can also effect other fingers. I had extensive surgery to correct it and consider myself a lucky man.

It is linked to northern European white men and I volunteered to be part of a genetic study to research it. My Dad had it also and we both gave blood samples for DNA study. I understand the privacy concerns and they had reams of paper that said I'm protected but I wanted to do my part
 

mikeyp

NES Member
Rating - 50%
1   1   0
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
11,081
Likes
11,706
Location
Plymouth
I have a weird genetic condition, Dupuytren's (du-pwe-TRANZ) contracture, that causes primarily your pinky and ring fingers to curve in but can also effect other fingers. I had extensive surgery to correct it and consider myself a lucky man.

It is linked to northern European white men and I volunteered to be part of a genetic study to research it. My Dad had it also and we both gave blood samples for DNA study. I understand the privacy concerns and they had reams of paper that said I'm protected but I wanted to do my part
And, that was a choice. The above examples are not
 

SpaceCritter

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Jan 15, 2013
Messages
12,978
Likes
6,484
Location
In Orbit
I have this:
Alpha-1 Antitrypsin Deficiency - Pulmonary Disorders - Merck Manuals Professional Edition

That is to say, I have one good gene ("M") and one bad ("Z"). The Z gene means half of my liver is busily making bad copies of alpha-1 which instead of entering my bloodstream to do its work, clumps ("polymerizes"). Net result is a low serum alpha-1 level - not basement low in my case, but on the low side even for someone with one good gene - which implies an elevated risk of emphysema, and a risk of liver disease.

I've known about it for a few years - when my aunt passed on, we flew to Denver for the memorial. Huffing and puffing my way through the airport, I said something about mile-high air, and my father made a remark about "that thing that runs in the family." The anonymous test from the Medical University of South Carolina told the tale.

My last trip to the GP I decided to find out how low was low. He tried to talk me out of it - the moment I had that test, A1AD becomes part of my "permanent record" and I become uninsurable. But given I'm getting old and it might at some point matter in terms of care decisions...
 
Top Bottom