More BS in Firearms "Crime" Reporting

FPrice

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http://www.timesledger.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16952861&BRD=2676&PAG=461&dept_id=573700&rfi=6

Police confiscate 'cop killer' gun in Far rockaway
By:Stephen Stirling
07/21/2006

Police in Far Rockaway arrested and charged three youths with criminal possession of a weapon Wednesday after a search of their home yielded a powerful type of handgun that has been responsible for more than two-thirds of police officer deaths since 1994, according to the Queens district attorney.


Police executed a court-authorized raid of the home of William Davis, 21, brother Clarence Davis, 18, and friend Gquan Lloyd, 18, Wednesday morning and found a notoriously powerful Fabrique Nationale 5.7 handgun along with another less-powerful handgun and a bag of cocaine, according to DA Richard Brown. The gun, called a "cop killer" by many for its ability to pierce 48 layers of bullet-proof Kevlar, is the first of its type to be recovered by authorities in New York City.
"The FN 5.7 is a lethal handgun imported from Belgium and capable of easily penetrating most police vets and plates," Brown said. "While this is the first time that such a deadly weapon has been recovered in New York City, its presence is troubling and makes the job of street cops that much more dangerous."
Since 1994, 425 of the 616 police officers killed in the line of duty have been killed with a FN 5.7, the DA said.
The three Far Rockaway residents, all of the Hammel Houses on 81-10 Rockaway Beach Blvd., were arraigned Thursday on charges of criminal possession of a weapon and a controlled substance at Queens Criminal Court in Kew Gardens. If convicted, each could spend up to 15 years in prison.

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Reach reporter Stephen Stirling by email at [email protected] or by phone at (718)229-0300 ext. 162.
 
jus went to a website that stated that the 5.7X28 round wasn.t demonstrated till 1995 and AP rounds are sold only to leo or millitary.this round is a modernized version of the 22 hornet.
I'm tempted to e mail this reporter with this info but would it do any good?
 
I'm tempted to e mail this reporter with this info but would it do any good?

The more people who email this reporter, with facts and politely, "might" help motivate him to be more accurate in the future. At the very least it will demonstrate that there are any number of people who see through his shoddy reporting.
 
Since the FN 5.7 wasn't even available to police and military until 2000, and not not OK'ed for civilians until 2004, the claim of 2/3 of officer deaths since 1994 seems especially ridiculous!

Only the ss190, ss191, and ss193 rounds are armor piercing, and they're only sold through a highly controled U.S. Customs Bonded warehouse, and it's unlikely these three goof balls in the article have ANY. The civilian version is not a good penetrator according to some of the data I've seen, and definitely would not penetrate a vest.

Not likely that the gun has been used in many killings, much less police killings. I'd be surprise if the number were greater than 10.

Here's a press release from the BATFE: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearmstech/fabriquen.htm
 
Last edited:
Found this posted on ARFCOM...

District Attorneys press release...

"District Attorney Brown said, “The FN 5.7 is a lethal handgun imported from Belgium and capable of easily penetrating most police vests and plates. While this is the first time that such a deadly weapon has been recovered in New York City, its presence is troubling and makes the job of street cops that much more dangerous.”
The District Attorney said that the Fabrique Nationale (FN) 5.7 handgun is often referred to as a “cop killer” because it has a high-capacity 20-round magazine, the ability to shoot 50 to 100 yards with great accuracy and its 5.7 x 28 bullet can perforate 48 layers of Kevlar. Of the 616 police officers killed in the line of duty nationwide between 1994 and 2003, 425 were killed with this handgun."

http://www.queensda.org/Press Releases/2006 Press Releases/07-July/07-20-2006.pdf

The "smoking gun"...

Table 30
Law Enforcement Officers Feloniously Killed with Firearms
Number Slain by Type of Firearm and Size of Ammunition, 1994-2003
Firearm
Ammunition Total
Total 568
Handgun 425
.22 Caliber 26
.25 Caliber 17
.32 Caliber 9
.32-20 Caliber 1
.357 Magnum 28
.38 Caliber 57
.380 Caliber 39
.40 Caliber 41
.41 Magnum 1
.44 Magnum 13
.45 Caliber 38
.455 Caliber 1
.50 Caliber 1
7.62x25 Millimeter 1
9 Millimeter 129
9x18 Millimeter 1
10 Millimeter 1
Size not reported 21
Rifle 109
.22 Caliber 3
.223 Caliber 23
.25-06 Caliber 2
.270 Caliber 2
.30 Caliber 13
.30-06 Caliber 3
.30-30 Caliber 7
.300 Caliber 1
.308 Caliber 3
.44 Magnum 1
7 Millimeter 3
7.62x39 Millimeter 44
7.62x54R Millimeter 2
Size not reported 2
Shotgun 34
.410 Gauge 1
12 Gauge 27
16 Gauge 1
20 Gauge 3
Size not reported 2


This is the list of Officer killed when their vests were pentrated.

Table 35
Law Enforcement Officers Feloniously Killed with Firearms
Type of Firearm and Size of Ammunition that Penetrated Body Armor, 1994-2003
Firearm
Ammunition Total
Total 19
Handgun 0
Rifle 19
.223 Caliber 4
.30 Caliber 2
.30-30 Caliber 2
.300 Caliber 1
7 Millimeter 1
7.62x39 Millimeter 9
Shotgun 0

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/leoka03.pdf

In this particular circumstance, I really can't blame the reporter. Maybe he should have conducted a little fact checking... maybe not?

The misrepresentation (or outright lie), falls on the DAs office and the person(s) that issued the press release.
 
The misrepresentation (or outright lie), falls on the DAs office and the person(s) that issued the press release.

Who you can bet is a Brady lackey!

Doubt that it was an "error". 100% positive that it was an INTENTIONAL OUTRIGHT LIE to precede more legislative efforts to screw NY's legal gun owners.

I seriously doubt that there are very many FN 5.7s in civilian hands thru-out the US. It is still a relatively rare gun in the US, ammo isn't easy to find, etc.
 
Oh yes, I do blame the reporter as it is the reporter's job to check "facts" not to be the Bagdad Bob for the politicians with an axe to grind.
 
Aren't the FN pistols exspense? In the $1200 range I think also the number of leos killed with vest on note that the vests were penetrated by rifle cartridges
not handgun. Everyone thinks that the police body armor will stop any thing from pistol to rifle and sadly that's not the truth
 
I had already replied to the reporter with those facts. We'll se what sort of reply (if any) I get.

Clever move on the part of the DA, though. "Of the 616 police officers killed in the line of duty nationwide between 1994 and 2003, 425 were killed with a handgun."

It's called plausible deniability. [rolleyes]

Ken
 
cdkayak said:
Where did they come up with this number?

It's pretty much a 110% lie. That's not even possible, given the
demographics of most guns on the street. The FiveSeven is simply too
expensive for most gangbanger types, unless stolen. And as someone else
already mentioned, the AP ammo isnt readily availiable, as FN only sells
it directly to PDs, and even at that, I'd venture a fair guess that most PDs
don't even use it.

On top of all that, the round it fires is otherwise somewhat less lethal than
others out there. I wouldn't want to get shot by it, but balistically speaking,
the wound channels from other centerfire handgun calibers are somewhat
larger. The load is pretty much "varmint class", so to guarantee lethality
in humans, shot placement is critical. (as it always is, but the 5.7 x 28mm
is more likely to "fail" on average, due to smaller cavities and worse
penetration). If the round was "better" than the other choices, then
many would be flocking to it, and that hasn't been the case, not even
in some wealthy communities where they could afford to throw away all their
guns and get fivesevens, that hasn't happened.

The whole thing sounds like a ploy by an anti-gun DA to get certain
types of guns banned.


-Mike
 
highlander said:
Aren't the FN pistols exspense? In the $1200 range I think also the number of leos killed with vest on note that the vests were penetrated by rifle cartridges not handgun. Everyone thinks that the police body armor will
stop any thing from pistol to rifle and sadly that's not the truth

The guns themselves are not that expensive (CDNN sells em for $800) but
compared to the street price of a typical jennings/lorcin/raven that the
criminals seem to like, it's probably on the order of 3-4 times the cost
of one of those pieces of crap, and probably double the cost of a
typical glock.

As a matter of fact, if it wasn't for some drunken jackass in CT leaving
a loaded fiveseven in his car, and getting caught by the police with it, it'd
be very doubtful as to wether anyone would be harping about it, due to
its pretty limited distribution. Basically that one particular event got
an anti gun PD sent into a tizzy, harping and hawing about how evil the
gun was, despite the fact that the offender hadn't actually shot or
even threatened anyone with it. (Not saying there wouldnt have been another thing
eventually, but the nimrod in that case hastened the appearance of the "problem"
quite a bit. It was alien to them so they took it as prime time to whine about something.
Most FFLs do not carry FiveSevens unless someone asks for one. I know a total of ONE guy
who owns one, and he rarely if ever shoots it, due to ammo costs being
retardedly high. Even on internet gun boards, there are only a
handful of people that have owned one, or even seen one.

-Mike
 
Idiots

I think they backpeddeled now. I went to the link for the article, and this is what it said at the top:

"The Queens district attorney's office said Monday "a miscommunication" was to blame for inaccurate information it released in a press release last Thursday that was quoted in a TimesLedger story on the newspaper's Web site Friday."

Ha, idiots.
 
Chris said:
Nope, sly as a fox. They know that the initial story will be seen by many and the 'correction' will be seen by very few. Mission Accomplished.

We are not paranoid, they REALLY ARE out to get us.

I agree. The stories always have eye catching headlines with all sorts of made up one-sided information. The corrections are made in an umarked paragraph days later in the back of the paper. This tactic is used all too often.
 
dvajda said:
I think they backpeddeled now. I went to the link for the article, and this is what it said at the top:

"The Queens district attorney's office said Monday "a miscommunication" was to blame for inaccurate information it released in a press release last Thursday that was quoted in a TimesLedger story on the newspaper's Web site Friday."

Ha, idiots.

It doesn't even refer to the article that was wrong-- just 'a press release' !
!
 
Pilgrim said:
It doesn't even refer to the article that was wrong-- just 'a press release' !
!

Well, at least the admit (implicitly) that the error was right there in their press release, not something that the reporter got wrong. While I'm generally opposed to more laws, I'd like to see one that makes it a mandatory life without bail for any public official to use the passive voice, or citing an error as the cause of an error in any official communication. I'm sick to death of obfuscations such as "mistakes were made" and "a miscommunication was to blame for". They sure manage to discover the active voice and cite actual people (usually themselves) whenever they're talking about something positive.[mg]

Ken
 
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