Montana to Feds: We Don't Want Your Gun Control (Montana Gun Law Mega Thread)

[MaineCWPtraining]

Thursday, October 1, 2009

HELENA, Mont. -- If Montana has its way in a lawsuit filed Thursday, there will be far less federal gun control in the state.

The state's libertarian streak _ which has spawned efforts to buck the federal Real ID Act and sparked widespread contempt for the Patriot Act _ is now triggering a fight over whether Montana should have sovereignty over made-in-Montana guns and equipment.

If gun advocates win, the state could decide which rules, if any, would control the manufacturer, sale and purchase of guns and paraphernalia.

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[Fixxah]

Makes too much sense to me. Feds will go down kicking and screaming. It is unfortunate that Mass. cannot have something similar to this.

Can somebody take these guns to another state for competition?

 

[Brin747]

We should do this in NH, we've at least got Ruger and Sig...

 

[soloman02]

I don't know if we'd be able to pull it off. I think too many moonbats have invaded.

 

[Martlet]

Maybe the Free State Project should move to Montana.

 

[tele_mark]

Note to self -- Add Montana to Monster job search agent.

 

[Bob J]

I don't know if we'd be able to pull it off. I think too many moonbats have invaded.

We should have an open season on moonbats....

 

[Gadsden]

Note to self -- Add Montana to Monster job search agent.

Good luck, at least with IT. I was looking there at one time and could not really find any jobs in the IT field that seemed worth a damn. Maybe things have changed, it was a bit ago.

 

[tele_mark]

I'm in electronics, which is probably just as bad.

 

[Brin747]

We should have an open season on moonbats....

I like it!

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The courts will probably doubt hold that in so much as the manufacturers use raw materials and equipment from many states in the manufacturing process, federal gun control is simply "regulating interstate commerce".

 

[Masterguns]

"I will live in Montana. And I will marry a round American woman and raise rabbits, and she will cook them for me"

 

[cekim]

Note to self -- Add Montana to Monster job search agent.

One does not go to Montana to find a job - one goes to Montana to hide from the world

It's a very nice place to do that BTW...

 

[P-14]

"I will live in Montana. And I will marry a round American woman and raise rabbits, and she will cook them for me"

Nice! From Red October?

 

[terraformer]

Nice! From Red October?

Yes. The russian first officer.

 

[drgrant]

"I will live in Montana. And I will marry a round American woman and raise rabbits, and she will cook them for me"

Vasily Borodin FTwin.

-Mike

 

[hicksonj]

If the manufacturers can show complete vertical integration within the state (from raw ore to final product) this should be an interesting case under an interstate commerce argument. If raw materials are imported into the state, it is a different ball game. Recycled and reclaimed materials would also be an interesting question of origin. All in all, cool long shot for the possibility of new machine guns on market.

 

[K-DUB]

"I will live in Montana. And I will marry a round American woman and raise rabbits, and she will cook them for me"

That was a great line.

I love Montana. I will live there again someday, & maybe even marry a round American man to cook homemade rabbits for.

 

[drgrant]

If the manufacturers can show complete vertical integration within the state (from raw ore to final product) this should be an interesting case under an interstate commerce argument. If raw materials are imported into the state, it is a different ball game. Recycled and reclaimed materials would also be an interesting question of origin. All in all, cool long shot for the possibility of new machine guns on market.

You shouldn't have to go that far.

Unfortunately SCOTUS doesn't have a lot of US v Lopez grade decisions (eg, where the feds get punched in the face for violating interstate commerce provisions) and that's how this crap got out of control.

BTW, Montana excludes MG's from it's "made in montana" thing, so machine guns are out of the question. So they were brave, but not
that brave.

-Mike

 

[cekim]

BTW, Montana excludes MG's from it's "made in montana" thing, so machine guns are out of the question. So they were brave, but not that brave.

Indeed - it's basically a paper-work statement...

Which, IMHO is the right place to start because it increases participation. The best "civil disobedience" is the kind that breaks few if any laws so that participation is maximized...

 

[Jason]

Indeed - it's basically a paper-work statement...

Which, IMHO is the right place to start because it increases participation. The best "civil disobedience" is the kind that breaks few if any laws so that participation is maximized...

Made in Montana suppressors would not fall under the NFA with this act.

 

[Jason]

We should do this in NH, we've at least got Ruger and Sig...

Hopefully we will. Kept an eye out for New Hampshire House Bill 2014 in the 2010 session. It's already been filed as a legislative request. Next step, I believe, is to submit the bill.

 

[drgrant]

We should do this in NH, we've at least got Ruger and Sig...

Neither of which will really care. Both of them make substantial amounts of coin from interstate commerce, so their activities won't be exempt from federal regulation. (Unless SCOTUS makes a landmark decision that severely curtails the level of regulation the feds can impose on the states. )

-Mike

 

[Zappa]

We should do this in NH, we've at least got Ruger and Sig...

Don't forget Thompson Center Arms and Gonic Arms too.

 

[mikem317]

BTW, Montana excludes MG's from it's "made in montana" thing, so machine guns are out of the question. So they were brave, but not
that brave.

Baby steps.

 

[KMaurer]

If the manufacturers can show complete vertical integration within the state (from raw ore to final product) this should be an interesting case under an interstate commerce argument. If raw materials are imported into the state, it is a different ball game. Recycled and reclaimed materials would also be an interesting question of origin. All in all, cool long shot for the possibility of new machine guns on market.

Even if every single part was made in Montana, using only materials from Montana and native-born Montana workers, there'd still be a problem under existing Supreme Court decisions. Wickard v. Filburn, 317 U.S. 111 (1942) essentially held that the commerce clause covered anything and everything conceivable. The very fact that something was done in one state meant that there was less demand to have it done in another state, thus affecting interstate commerce. It's every bit as obscene as Dred Scott v. Sanford, U.S. v. Cruikshank or Plessy v. Ferguson, but it's still binding precedent until overturned.

Back when I was an undergrad, I used to joke that, since laws applied to people and people were free to move from one state to another, anything they did was covered by interstate commerce. Then I encountered Wickard v. Filburn and discovered to my horror that I was right. U.S. v. Lopez seems to have been a lapse in judgment on the part of the Court. lower courts have systematically treated it as such ever since, and SCOTUS has done absolutely nothing to dissuade them from that interpretation.

Ken

 

[Maj. Boom Boom]

That was a great line.

I love Montana. I will live there again someday, & maybe even marry a round American man to cook homemade rabbits for.

well i'm a round american man by the way how do you make a homemade rabbit?

 

[Auspicious Aspect]

We should do this in NH, we've at least got Ruger and Sig...

Based on LSRs, three bills will be filed to bring this forward in NH.

I have seen drafts of two, and neither of those would exclude any firearms by type.

However, none of these bills in any state - including Montana - are crafted to affect federally licensed manufacturers/SOTs. New, legal "in state only" guns would have to be produced by companies that do not yet exist.

 

[K-DUB]

well i'm a round american man

I've seen your van, dude.

by the way how do you make a homemade rabbit?

I'm thinking you raise some rabbits, chop off their head once they get nice & fat, & throw them in the pot with some veggies.

 

[Zombieoutfitters]

Makes too much sense to me. Feds will go down kicking and screaming. It is unfortunate that Mass. cannot have something similar to this.

If MA had anything like this it would go 180 degrees in the opposite direction. You'd be lucky to get a bbgun in this state! Unless you were a criminal and didn't care because you were ALREADY breaking the law.

*sigh* I'm having a bad week.