If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
Guest Monadnock & NES Need your Help!!!
Discussion in 'LEO Bubbas' started by enbloc, Jan 9, 2019.
Do you prefer the Trumbull Grenade or Standard Side?
I havent seen one in 20 years.
Whats the difference.
My Google foo came up empty.
Better question would be what are the legal implications of using a PR24 today. Get video taped using one and "Poleece Brutalitahy". I say that knowing a CSB is almost useless for it's intended purpose.
The Trumbull has the oversized half-ball tip on the side handle and aides in retention and rotary strikes. The standard is about half the size, but hangs up less on things.
It's going to be a gift to a rookie...
I'm told that the training on the PR-24 has changed from "striking" to "manipulation"...
Didn’t realize anybody still used them, I’d check first (unless you already have) and make sure it’s an authorized item or they won’t be allowed to carry it.
Most ASP’s I’ve been issued were useless for anything but digging thru trash cans for evidence, stopped carrying any type of baton years ago.
Thanks guys, rethinking gift...
Scratch off the expensive pen sets too Matt, they will get lost in the field or stolen at HQ in short order.
How about one of those nice, big duty bags I see Patrolmen stowing in the trunk with extra gear?
Depends if it’s issued or not by his dept. We were issued one.
Do you want a “memorable” gift, or a usable one?
Usable to me would be a nice GPS specifically for the patrol car, always helpful and makes navigating traffic to your call AO much easier than a map, especially when you’re new and still trying to remember a 100 different things to do before you arrive at a call. He’d have to remove it daily at the end of his shift or it’ll be stolen (I know, ridiculous but true) but he should be clearing and cleaning the car out anyway for the next guy coming on.
At the start of every shift he should also be checking behind and under the back seats for contraband or weapons for his own safety and guys I worked with would show up 30mins early to get their patrol car set up with their own equipment the way they want it set for the shift.
Memorable would be maybe one of those handmade wooden American flags for his wall at home.
Wooden American Flags - Combat Veterans - Flags of Valor Made in USA
They’re beautifully made and come in several sizes/costs.
Thanks Cams. I will peruse the Vet's wooden flags.
PR24 arent good for anything but knocking on doors. Onlu agency in the area who still issues PR24's is the Peoples Republic of Cambridge. New cop....gift certificate to unuform store. Hard to buy gear cause he will need to explore buy and use.before settling.
Coast to Coast Designs - he has an Etsy store and Facebook and Instagram pages. I will be flat out up front and tell you he’s a friend of mine, my Engineer at my last station, and a Coastie currently working without pay, so I DO have ulterior motives in recommending his products. Now all that said, he produces incredible work, much better than a lot of other wooden flags and challenge coin racks I’ve seen.
Meh, why waste money on a uniform supply place when he’ll likely get 1K a year for clothing allowance anyway.
I can speak to the quality of Flags of Valor, got one as a gift myself and it’s stunning. I’ve now gifted them several times myself because of that.
Depending on the agency clothing allowance may not get paid upon hire. You may have to wait a year. Departments feel they already gave you academy uniforms and that is your clothing for the year. Others are different. Another gift i have recommended is g shock digtal watch. Most military guys wear them, and they're more durable than an iwatch
Buy him an IFAK with Halo chest seal, CAT Tourniquet (northamericanrescue.com), and combat gauze. Then teach him how to use it if he doesn't already know. Departments aren't issuing that stuff unless they are really progressive.
lol. here in springfield we get a mere $400 and we are taxed on it
a nice watch. a flashlight, if he doesnt already have one. even then, a backup light is always good. an outer vest carrier, if hes allowed to use one and not issued it. a patrol bag is also a good idea. i have the 5.11 patrol bag and its great for me and the gear i carry. my department issued us a cheap pair of handcuffs, and cheap holsters. one long sleeve, one short sleeve, one bdu, and one dress pant. we are issued one bdu, long sleeve, and short sleeve per year. just imagine how much i spent on uniform when i first started. the holsters they gave us were also not great so i purchased my own nylon holsters to replace all of the ones they provided. the flashlight and holster also came out of pocket. see what he is issued and what he has to buy on his own and that may help. a wooden flag is nice as well but i think if he has to buy alot of his gear, as i did, something he can use on duty would be appreciated more. just my 2 cents
Jesus. When I first came on 23 yrs ago we were still getting 700 then. I thought we had it bad, you have my condolences. lol
ETA: We also have to pay taxes on ours at the end of the year.
Just for my knowledge and curiosity, Is Rodney King the main reason most patrolmen aren't allowed the PR-24?
It seems like more of a defensive tool, where a straight baton is more for striking/keeping distance. (I have had some military training in the past with a straight baton and shield.)
The holds, restraints and blocks that the PR provides seems like a no-brainer when confronted with multiple assailants. Also, do you ever see a time when the baton will be reconsidered as a defensive tool?
IMO Matt, They’re all pretty useless. I don’t think RK had anything to do with it. It’s more of a PR (public relations) thing these days that makes the rules.
The best things to use were the Saps, the old leather handle with lead powder. Small and very effective. We all used to carry them. Now they are outlawed. Then we went to the plastic long sticks, weren’t bad, I’ve used it on people and it was effective, moreso just walking around with it would make people think twice. Now they’re outlawed.
So we can’t use a long plastic stick anymore, but instead they gave us a metal pipe. Go figure. Long story but the ASP’s are useless. My partner and I got jumped one night in Roxbury, two 6’2 Jamaicans high on crack and they pulled him down a stairway trying to steal his gun.
The fight was on but they couldn’t feel a thing they were so high, one of them literally picked up an 80 yr old woman and threw her at me through the air.
When I caught up to him after that I hit him with the ASP in every green zone we were trained to with zero affect, I finally said f*** this shit and whapped him right in the head with it and he went down pretty quick and surrendered.
From using the ASP in that violent struggle, the weight ratio (or lack of weight behind it) against power of the strikes caused several broken bones in my wrist and I was in a cast for 5 months because of that piece of crap stupid little pipe. After that I stopped carrying it altogether.
Nowadays, with all the anti-police stuff going on, if you get caught using a metal pipe (ASP) on someone (god forbid you’re a white cop with a black suspect) you’re done. Doesn’t matter if you’re 100% in the right and using it properly, your chief will hang you out to dry to save face with the purple silk shirted street corner preachers and Nation of Islam MF’s.
I never used a PR-24, but I’d have to assume they’re all pretty much the same-useless gimmicks. They work fine in training with professionals, unfortunately the world is full of amateurs.
My hat is off to you Cams. Talk about being on the battle lines, and with shit Rules of Engagement. I'm buying you a beer next time I see you...
Cams is 100 percent right... In addition to that, with all of the surveillance video and cell phone cameras, it's a shitshow explaining a baton beatdown, no matter how right your officer is. Even more than Rodney King days
It is what it is Matt, but thanks man, I’ll be happy to drink it and I’ll get the next round after that.
Before Cams was on the job (I preceded him by about 10 yrs), we had the PR-24s with the knob. We had to do an 8hr training stint with them. When used properly, they were ok but they were a pain in the ass to carry and the knob would swing around and snag on something all the time. Forget getting in and out of a cruiser. You had to remember to take it off your belt first. In the heat of battle, training usually went out the window and guys resorted to instincts. We had several instances of guys using the PR-24 like a tomahawk and hitting people in the head with the knob. (Ouch). After lots of creative report writing and lawsuits, they canned the PR-24s. I used to carry a big sap in my motorcycle boot. The trick was to hide the sap in your jacket sleeve and have the lead weight in the palm of your hand. If you hit someone it looked like you were slapping them but they would go down like a ton of bricks. There's a lot of stories in the naked city...
How hard did you have to swing the SAP to make night-night?
Separate names with a comma.