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mlaboss

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Well, that f***ing sucks. Guessing this mess is going to drag on for a long time yet.
 
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The range will need 6 figures of support to continue the battle. It has already incurred tremendous cost to fight this far. The town of Peterborough does not want any firearms activity happening under its watch. I fully expect the next step by the town after the recreational area change that has now occurred will be going after individual landowners with gun ranges.

The goal of the people driving and funding the other side of this fight is no guns period.
 

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So, WTF now?

The article claims the club can't put a new range in a different location because the town outlawed new ranges. But the club used to have a range in a different position... How would the law possibly affect it going back to its old location? Or a location that is the first part of the current 200 yard range?
 

mlaboss

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So, WTF now?

The article claims the club can't put a new range in a different location because the town outlawed new ranges. But the club used to have a range in a different position... How would the law possibly affect it going back to its old location? Or a location that is the first part of the current 200 yard range?
Yeah, I wonder if they could rejigger the range to an arrangement that doesn't encroach on the neighbor's property. It wouldn't be building a new range, just modifying the one that's already there.
 

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Yeah, I wonder if they could rejigger the range to an arrangement that doesn't encroach on the neighbor's property. It wouldn't be building a new range, just modifying the one that's already there.
Yep I think the shorter pistol range is still on the property. The original range sure was although I didn't care much for that arrangement... It felt odd shooting parallel to cars I can see driving by to the left. I like it further back.
 

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How long has the range been there on the so called neighbors property in question?

Under "Adverse Possession" if the club has been operating/treating/maintaining that property as its own for the last 20 year then it can be argued that it belongs to them
 

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How long has the range been there on the so called neighbors property in question?

Under "Adverse Possession" if the club has been operating/treating/maintaining that property as its own for the last 20 year then it can be argued that it belongs to them
Almost 100 years... 80?

Obviously with the latest ruling, they didn't care about the adverse possession thing.
 

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Almost 100 years... 80?

Obviously with the latest ruling, they didn't care about the adverse possession thing.
Unless the defense raised the question of adverse possession the court would never offer it......if its been maintained by the club for more than 20 years then its a potential path forward legally speaking
 

mlaboss

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Almost 100 years... 80?

Obviously with the latest ruling, they didn't care about the adverse possession thing.
I thought the issue was with the more recent changes to the range. I don't have firsthand knowledge though so I could be wrong.
 

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Unless the defense raised the question of adverse possession the court would never offer it......if its been maintained by the club for more than 20 years then its a potential path forward legally speaking
I was not at the hearing but I can't imagine they aren't already aware of it.
 

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So by reading the article one could "assume" that a property survey showed the neighbors indeed owned the property in question?
When this all started, like a year ago, I had gone online and looked up the property boundary maps. The maps appeared to show a rather odd shaped property of the Perry's, with this rectangular shaped tab thingy just extending out from their larger property right through the middle of the 200 yard range. It looks rather ridiculous and I can't imagine why anyone would divide up land in this shape or how you would put the land to good use if it is like that. It is not as if anyone could ever build another house there and run a driveway to it.

But that's all I know... I can't speak for any of the legal arguments or how the club used that section of land prior to the new range being built.
 
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The case was an adverse possession claim as the range has had an existing archery course around the old and current range since the 1950s. The current neighbor has owned the property for more than 20 years and never made a claim despite hundreds of archers and tens of target stands present. This is a tough blow as it will also effect the Town's case against the range for environmental impact.
 
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So by reading the article one could "assume" that a property survey showed the neighbors indeed owned the property in question?
Yes. The survey confirmed the L shaped extension was part of the neighboring plot. Though that piece of land had been used for both the original range, new range and archery course. The archery course has been in place since the club was created.
 
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What you have is the court siding with the neighbor, despite the fact he spent 20+ years NEVER WALKING HIS OWN PROPERTY.

Because if he had done so he would have seen the target lanes, targets and no trespassing signs the range had posted. Not to mention the 8 years or so of gun fire on the extension.
 

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Thanks. That would seem to be a difficult situation indeed. The neighbors can now force them off that range regardless of what the Town wants.
 

jpk

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What you have is the court siding with the neighbor, despite the fact he spent 20+ years NEVER WALKING HIS OWN PROPERTY.

Because if he had done so he would have seen the target lanes, targets and no trespassing signs the range had posted. Not to mention the 8 years or so of gun fire on the extension.
Money aside, this should be a slam dunk case to appeal to the NH SC as there is already established precident that is favorable to the club and contrary to judges decision
 
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Money aside, this should be a slam dunk case to appeal to the NH SC as there is already established precident that is favorable to the club and contrary to judges decision
I have not read the decision for the case from the judge. To this juncture it has been 18 months of legal no man's land for the club fighting two cases simultaneously. The clear intent by the neighbor was to bleed the club dry by stringing out everything. Lawyers for this type of case are very expensive for a small club who's many members joined specifically because the range was a low cost family option. The loss of NES shoot revenue is also high once the injunction to stop all shooting was put in place.

The reality is the range did not provoke any of this response from the beginning. The neighbor blindsided the range with the town and environmental claims and the range was forced to pursue adverse possession. The range would happily have negotiated for the land and did in fact make an offer that far exceeded market value AND gave equal land in return along the northern boundary. The neighbor used that good faith time to backstab the range.
 
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jpk

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I have not read the decision for the case from the judge. To this juncture it has been 18 months of legal no man's land for the club fighting two cases simultaneously. The clear intent by the neighbor was to bleed the club dry by stringing out everything. Lawyers for this type of case are very expensive for a small club who's many members joined specifically because the range was a low cost family option. The loss of NES shoot revenue is also high once the injunction to stop all shooting was put in place.

The reality is the range did not provoke any of this response from the beginning. The neighbor blindsided the range with the town and environmental claims and the range was forced to pursue adverse possession. The range would happily have negotiated for the land and did in fact make an offer that far exceeded market value AND gave equal land in return along the northern boundary. The neighbor used that good faith time to backstab the range.
My fear is that the consequences of additional legal actions against the club based on the judges decision will be more costly than appealing to NH SC......
 
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The issue is squeezing blood from a rock, not lack of desire to take action. Our legal system is not built around justice. Its built around who can pay the most people the highest rates for the longest period of time.

Right now the neighbor is effectively using the town and town's budget as a weapon against the range. That's how this started.
 
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The issue I have with the town is the range has been there 70 years. the idea a resident can 1) purchase a piece of land without walking it and 2) live directly next to a range for 20 years and then try to claim fowel play is on its face absurd. But here the law is protecting that very behavior.

I get the map shows it's his property. What isn't clear is how he, the previous real estate agents, the current owner and the town can somehow all be aware of a 70 yo range and still come down on it like a ton of bricks.
 

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The issue I have with the town is the range has been there 70 years. the idea a resident can 1) purchase a piece of land without walking it and 2) live directly next to a range for 20 years and then try to claim fowel play is on its face absurd. But here the law is protecting that very behavior.

I get the map shows it's his property. What isn't clear is how he, the previous real estate agents, the current owner and the town can somehow all be aware of a 70 yo range and still come down on it like a ton of bricks.
As much as I'm saddened by this situation, let me explain why your objections may not be reasonable.

>40 yrs ago I bought my house in MA, it is wooded on 3 sides and there is a gully in between me and my backdoor neighbor. Since we are both corner lots I asked my backdoor neighbor if he knew where our property lines were along the side street . . . he said no and "would it be a problem if you or I picked up an empty beer can on the other one's property . . . and that is how we've lived for all those years. The bank had the property surveyed but the surveyor didn't put any markers in the ground.

As for my house in NH, I have no idea where the boundaries are here either. It is deeply wooded on 3 sides also and the prior owner told me that there are no markers. Most interesting is that there are stone walls in the woods all over the place in this development (that is 40 yrs old) but the original plans for the development don't show them, the deeds don't mention them, etc.

No way I'm looking for ticks walking the properties looking for boundaries that don't exist.

If it were me with a range encroachment, I'd negotiate that landlocked piece of land with the club. However, if the neighbor is an a-hole that wants to ban all guns, then that person would do what is being done here and pull out all stops to shut the club down, using the courts, the town bylaws, writing new bylaws, etc. We know what type of person owns that property. [sad]
 

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Shitty news.
Maybe showing up at the next meeting and throwing plans for 300 units of low income housing on the table, which there isn't shit they could about stopping might be the dick slap of reality some people might need.
Be careful what you wish for , you might just get it.
 

Prepper

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If it were me with a range encroachment, I'd negotiate that landlocked piece of land with the club. However, if the neighbor is an a-hole that wants to ban all guns, then that person would do what is being done here and pull out all stops to shut the club down, using the courts, the town bylaws, writing new bylaws, etc. We know what type of person owns that property. [sad]
Yep, I was thinking that. If I was the owner of the neighboring property, I would just offer it to the club at fair market value, or less if I liked the club. Keep in mind fair market value for land locked unbuildable land isn't worth all that much.
 
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