Modern sporting rifles on the Moon?

[Reptile]

I am very concerned about the technicalities.

We will need new scopes and bullet drop charts.

People need to get on this ASAP.

 

[Broc]

I am very concerned about the technicalities.

We will need new scopes and bullet drop charts.

People need to get on this ASAP.

4th grade math is enough to figure out the difference in drop.

Why would you need a new scope?

 

[Reptile]

4th grade math is enough to figure out the difference in drop.

Why would you need a new scope?

Well, some people might need a new scope who have the ACOG. It has hatch marks for differences in range and bullet drop.

I can probably get by with my Aimpoint Pro, or T2, but as of now they are not Lunar Certified.

I pay extra for "mil spec", "NV / IR Capable", "Tactical", and "Lunar Certified".

Even if I'm not going to the moon, I want what THEY have.

 

[VetteGirlMA]

 

[Broc]

Well, some people might need a new scope who have the ACOG. It has hatch marks for differences in range and bullet drop.

I can probably get by with my Aimpoint Pro, or T2, but as of now they are not Lunar Certified.

I pay extra for "mil spec", "NV / IR Capable", "Tactical", and "Lunar Certified".

Even if I'm not going to the moon, I want what THEY have.

I dont have an ACOG. Is the scope calibrated for the specific barrel length, gun and bullet weight from a specific manufacturer?

 

[fshalor]

NASA did a study on such things back in the day. Without looking it up, I seem to remember the gun 'should' fire.

I'd assume then that they'd be relatively effective since all you need to do is puncture the suit and get behind cover and let physics kill the other person.

again, easier than I thought it would be, Cornell article on the subject:

Can you fire a gun on the Moon? (Intermediate) - Curious About Astronomy? Ask an Astronomer

Ask an Astronomer is run by volunteers in the Astronomy Department at Cornell University. We answer your astronomy questions. Please browse our archive first.

curious.astro.cornell.edu

Recoilless bb pistol is the way. Even on the moon, unless you have a rock behind you, ya gonna move a bit.

 

[Reptile]

I dont have an ACOG. Is the scope calibrated for the specific barrel length, gun and bullet weight from a specific manufacturer?

 

[Picton]

Well, some people might need a new scope who have the ACOG. It has hatch marks for differences in range and bullet drop.

I can probably get by with my Aimpoint Pro, or T2, but as of now they are not Lunar Certified.

I pay extra for "mil spec", "NV / IR Capable", "Tactical", and "Lunar Certified".

Even if I'm not going to the moon, I want what THEY have.

But the thing is that, on the moon, there wouldn't be any appreciable bullet drop at realistic ranges. The compensator reticle you posted in #37 (which I'm not familiar with; I'm an irons guy) has virtually no perceptible drop out to 300m, which brings you to the base of that red triangle?

With 1/6 gravity, that red triangle would have you covered all the way out to 1800m. You'd only start getting into the hash marks at nearly two and a half klicks, and I'm sure not shooting that far.

At that range, the target might well be able to just hop out of the way after he knows you've fired. Because remember, your leaps and jumps on the moon are a lot more effortless and go a lot farther. And it's not like he'd need to hop very far to avoid your measly MSR bullet.

 

[Broc]

View attachment 455974

I would like to hear from an ACOG owner, because not every ammo is the same. So I find it hard to believe that sight will be spot on with all the rounds from different manufacturers.

Anyway, the moon will be won over with AK47, just like pretty much every war. So Iron sights all the way.

 

[weekendracer]

You guys are all thinking about gravity, oxygen and atmospheric pressure.

My first thought is, "how am I going to get my fat space suit finger in the trigger guard?

I've seen AR trigger guards that 'bow out' and give more room near the trigger.


Or, just cut the tip off your glove like here on earth. I'm sure it would work fine.

 

[OnTheRoad]

What about recoil?

 

[Evilisnowgood]

Yes, a common misconception is that guns wouldn’t function underwater. While drag forces would greatly affect range, some guns most certainly would be able to function with greatly reduced muzzle energy. But with increasing depths and increased pressure I am sure the gas systems of most firearms would be disrupted sufficiently to render operation impossible.

Shooting under water has the same questions to answer but under greater pressure...

View: https://youtu.be/cp5gdUHFGIQ

So how close would you have to be for it to kill you? I see the Russians have developed some underwater guns.

 

[Broc]

I've seen AR trigger guards that 'bow out' and give more room near the trigger.


Or, just cut the tip off your glove like here on earth. I'm sure it would work fine.

It will be fine for a few minutes until your finger freezes.

Make sure you duct tape the glove to not lose oxygen.

#SpaceProblems

 

[Evilisnowgood]

Any weight a person has on earth can be calculated with the formula Weight = mass * value of gravity. Well your mass will stay the same on these different planets but the value of gravity will change which implies your weight will change on said planet. So calculations to bullet drop will be changed since the weight has also changed in the necessary formulas.

So with a space suit and all, if I could pick up a hundred pounds over my head, would I easily be able to pick up 600 pounds over my head on the moon, regardless of shape of object?

 

[Dench]

The Soviets hauled up a 23mm autocannon in the 1970’s and shot it off. Been done before. If that thing didn’t have any problems something way smaller will be fine.

 

[Picton]

So with a space suit and all, if I could pick up a hundred pounds over my head, would I easily be able to pick up 600 pounds over my head on the moon, regardless of shape of object?

Pretty much.

 

[Reptile]

The Moon will be won by HK...


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jth4yATniS4

 

[weekendracer]

So with a space suit and all, if I could pick up a hundred pounds over my head, would I easily be able to pick up 600 pounds over my head on the moon, regardless of shape of object?

It still has mass though.....MxA=F.

Throw it at someone it will do damage.

 

[Rocky Mosasaurus]

So with a space suit and all, if I could pick up a hundred pounds over my head, would I easily be able to pick up 600 pounds over my head on the moon, regardless of shape of object?

You would be able to carry the object since that G is proportionally inverse to the mass increase. So all things are equal through system changes and you would be able to lift the object.

 

[Fixxah]

DI is still scavenging gas from the firing cycle so it should be fine. That said, yes a bolt should be more reliable.

Brass rats don't approve.

 

[mike1960]

The Moon will be won by HK...


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jth4yATniS4

It was an awesome movie. So much Schtick carried off so well.

 

[xtry51]

You guys are all thinking about gravity, oxygen and atmospheric pressure.

My first thought is, "how am I going to get my fat space suit finger in the trigger guard?

If it's and AR you simply open the trigger guard. I think most people are unaware the AR is specifically designed to open the guard to fire with heavy gloves on. That's why the trigger guard has a spring retainer on one side that can be pressed in with a bullet tip.

 

[1903Collector]

Range would increase, presumably. The Moon only has 1/6 the gravity of the earth, so for any given range at which you could expect gravity to contribute to bullet drop here on earth, just multiply by six to get the moon distance.

Of course, everyone knows an AK would be a better choice as a space weapon (and everywhere else). I don't have the knowledge to tell you what reduced gravity and/or lack of oxygen would do to the gases in a direct-impingement system, but I'd imagine a piston would be more reliable. A bolt-action is probably even better.

M.O.M...Minute of Moon!

 

[falcon123]

Collecting spent brass would be a bitch.

 

[Bob P]

I would like to hear from an ACOG owner, because not every ammo is the same. So I find it hard to believe that sight will be spot on with all the rounds from different manufacturers.

Anyway, the moon will be won over with AK47, just like pretty much every war. So Iron sights all the way.

I own one and while it’s close you have to re-zero changing ammo just like any other scope

 

[Picton]

M.O.M...Minute of Moon!

Six Minutes of Angle?

 

[jkelly1229]

Range would increase, presumably. The Moon only has 1/6 the gravity of the earth, so for any given range at which you could expect gravity to contribute to bullet drop here on earth, just multiply by six to get the moon distance.

Of course, everyone knows an AK would be a better choice as a space weapon (and everywhere else). I don't have the knowledge to tell you what reduced gravity and/or lack of oxygen would do to the gases in a direct-impingement system, but I'd imagine a piston would be more reliable. A bolt-action is probably even better.

Wouldn't an ak be worse due to the looser tolerances.

I thought the reason an AR would fire would be because the casing sealed the chamber and propelled the round.

But seriously what the hell do I know I'm just an IT who got less than 3 hours of sleep and spent all day chasing a 9 month old around.

 

[Mesatchornug]

I own one and while it’s close you have to re-zero changing ammo just like any other scope

Right. BDCs are ammo and barrel length specific. For example, the Vortex BDC is for (IIRC) M855 in a 16" barrel.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Wouldn't an ak be worse due to the looser tolerances.

I thought the reason an AR would fire would be because the casing sealed the chamber and propelled the round.

But seriously what the hell do I know I'm just an IT who got less than 3 hours of sleep and spent all day chasing a 9 month old around.

All firearms function by sealing the barrel.

There might be something to the thermal expansion argument that will make the AK's all steel construction more reliable in extreme cold.

 

[Toast]

Range would increase, presumably. The Moon only has 1/6 the gravity of the earth, so for any given range at which you could expect gravity to contribute to bullet drop here on earth, just multiply by six to get the moon distance.

Far more than that, as the arc of the bullet would be a smooth parabola as there would be no aerodynamic drag.

One thing that always makes me laugh is the scene in Firefly where Jane puts one of his rifles into a spacesuit when he needs to shoot it outside the ship.

The producers actually apologized for that afterwards, saying they should have researched it

I expect that the distance traveled would exceed the proportional difference due to differing gravites as there would be zero wind resistance and no drag.

Yes

What about recoil?

It would be effectively the same.


While the air inside the case contributes effectively nothing to the powder burn, as the oxidizer is already in the powder. a better questions is will the 15 psia inside the case unseat the bullet the first time the round is exposed to vacuum?