Missouri bans all federal gun laws

All federal acts, laws, executive orders, administrative orders, court orders, rules, and regulations, whether past, present, or future, which infringe on the people’s right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed by the Second Amendment to the United States I and Section 23 of the Missouri Constitution shall be invalid in this state, shall not be recognized by this state, shall be specifically rejected by this state, and shall be considered null and void and of no effect in this state.”
 
WOW

Phenomenal news. Missouri just upended the Sanctuary states who are for illegal immigration and is becoming a Sanctuary state for gun owners? Rights trump privilege. Is this possible? Many 2A friendly states will bear witness with this.
 
It passed the Senate today by a vote of 29-4. If passed by the House, it will be entered on the ballot for Missouri voters’ approval this fall.
Not out of the woods yet, but a good start.
 
Can anyone explain to me how this is anything but a symbolic gesture? Saying that the laws don't apply does not magically stop the feds from sending jackboots to your house and dragging you off to federal prison. Are the missouri state police going to break you out, or perhaps defend you from the feds beforehand? Maybe they will arrest all the feds for holding you prisoner? Will they have a presence at gun stores who are selling SBR's and machineguns with no NFA paperwork to make sure the ATF stays away?
 
Bottom line is the feds dont have anywhere the manpower to enforce their laws everywhere and at all times. If youre unfortunate enough to be in possession of an mg with no papers when federal agents show up at your door or pull you over then yeah youre screwed, but how often does that happen vs state and local doing the same?
 
Can anyone explain to me how this is anything but a symbolic gesture? Saying that the laws don't apply does not magically stop the feds from sending jackboots to your house and dragging you off to federal prison. Are the missouri state police going to break you out, or perhaps defend you from the feds beforehand? Maybe they will arrest all the feds for holding you prisoner? Will they have a presence at gun stores who are selling SBR's and machineguns with no NFA paperwork to make sure the ATF stays away?
My question exactly.
 
Let the feds try to enforce. If Missouri stands by its word, then the state police will back the state and not help the feds. Are people getting arrested in MA for marijuana possession?


No, but they go full retard about guns. Look at the guys who relied on the kansas law about supressors and then got screwed to the wall by the feds. Do you really think the state police will stand with you and stop the ATF from arresting you?
 
Bottom line is the feds dont have anywhere the manpower to enforce their laws everywhere and at all times. If youre unfortunate enough to be in possession of an mg with no papers when federal agents show up at your door or pull you over then yeah youre screwed, but how often does that happen vs state and local doing the same?

Do you seriously believe that the ATF would not be kicking down doors 5 minutes after hearing that a store in missouri was selling new manufactured MG's or SBRs/supressors without NFA paperwork? This is not something they would ignore. Perhaps a few backwoods machineguns get ignored because they can't be everywhere, but that is no different from now.
 
IIRC this was tried somewhere else before, but the Feds claimed that if any component of the gun crossed a state line, including the raw materials, they had jurisdiction.

Look at the potential criminal liability if you let a friend use your personally owned not for commercial use CNC milling machine to finish an 80% lower.

The Feds claim if you are a commercial machine shop and let people press the button to run a program to finish a personally owned stripped lower you are definitely in trouble.

The state can say whatever they want ( immigration ring a bell?) but when the Feds show up with a warrant claiming jurisdiction, chances are you are going for a ride
 
Do you seriously believe that the ATF would not be kicking down doors 5 minutes after hearing that a store in missouri was selling new manufactured MG's or SBRs/supressors without NFA paperwork? This is not something they would ignore. Perhaps a few backwoods machineguns get ignored because they can't be everywhere, but that is no different from now.
Per the article:
"...make enforcement of those laws by federal officers within the State of Missouri a criminal offense"

So you're saying the federal govt will send out of state officials to do this work? Not a chance dude.
 
Per the article:
"...make enforcement of those laws by federal officers within the State of Missouri a criminal offense"

So you're saying the federal govt will send out of state officials to do this work? Not a chance dude.

No, I'm saying that they will send ATF officers to arrest those people, and should there be an ATF officer arrested (So doubtful as to be ridiculous) that a federal court would tell the state to go to hell and there is no way it would stick.
 
No, I'm saying that they will send ATF officers to arrest those people, and should there be an ATF officer arrested (So doubtful as to be ridiculous) that a federal court would tell the state to go to hell and there is no way it would stick.
That is exactly what Missouri is saying. It will hold up.
Again, from the article:
But will it hold up in a federal court?
Yes. The bill’s main provision calling on the entire state to cease enforcing federal gun control measures stands on solid legal ground under the anti-commandeering doctrine. Court precedent from 1842 to 2012 stipulates that the feds simply cannot require a state to help them violate your Constitutional rights, and allows states the power to refuse to enforce such federal laws it deems unConstitutional. Besides, the feds simply don’t have the manpower to do it at the state level without the assistance and partnership of state and local agencies.
 
That is exactly what Missouri is saying. It will hold up.
Again, from the article:
But will it hold up in a federal court?
Yes. The bill’s main provision calling on the entire state to cease enforcing federal gun control measures stands on solid legal ground under the anti-commandeering doctrine. Court precedent from 1842 to 2012 stipulates that the feds simply cannot require a state to help them violate your Constitutional rights, and allows states the power to refuse to enforce such federal laws it deems unConstitutional. Besides, the feds simply don’t have the manpower to do it at the state level without the assistance and partnership of state and local agencies.

Look, I would love to see this be a real thing but it seems sketchy. They may have trouble with enforcing things without local help, but it is not impossible especially in the case that they want to make a point. They can and would pull some guys to get enough to raid and shut down the guy selling new machineguns. That guy would go to a federal court, where he would be convicted and the state would stand by wanting it happen. We saw this with kansas, they didn't stop anyone from enforcing federal law, neither would the missouri state police. Or do you really think they would go out and attempt to arrest federal officers enforcing valid federal law?

They are setting someone up for a big fall, and when it happens we have seen in the past legislators acting like the whole thing was a joke and why would you have relied on that to break federal law? They are virtue signaling, and while I like the message I just feel like we should be real here about the consequences of expecting this law to shield you from the feds. The ATF ignores some stuff, but this is a slap in the face to the feds and I don't see them just ignoring it like they do with pot.
 
right. so theoretically they could also do the same for federal income taxes, like up yours, our state citizens aren't payin' no stinkin' federal taxes.
That's exactly why Texas keeps threatening to secede. If you get outside the true blue states you find people are kind of sick of the feds all up in their business.
 
Look, I would love to see this be a real thing but it seems sketchy. They may have trouble with enforcing things without local help, but it is not impossible especially in the case that they want to make a point. They can and would pull some guys to get enough to raid and shut down the guy selling new machineguns. That guy would go to a federal court, where he would be convicted and the state would stand by wanting it happen. We saw this with kansas, they didn't stop anyone from enforcing federal law, neither would the missouri state police. Or do you really think they would go out and attempt to arrest federal officers enforcing valid federal law?

They are setting someone up for a big fall, and when it happens we have seen in the past legislators acting like the whole thing was a joke and why would you have relied on that to break federal law? They are virtue signaling, and while I like the message I just feel like we should be real here about the consequences of expecting this law to shield you from the feds. The ATF ignores some stuff, but this is a slap in the face to the feds and I don't see them just ignoring it like they do with pot.

Agreed. And for those likening this to marijuana laws, the national dialogue on marijuana has come nearly 180 degrees since the 80s and the egg-in-the-frying-pan commercials. Most states now have some form of legalization on the books.

Contrast that with the national discussion around firearms and 2A, which is one of the most divisive conversations going on in this country right now. There's a large bloc of people who are sick and tired of guns in the news and are trying everything possible to make laws hyper-restrictive, and there's an equally large contingent fighting to keep, if not expand existing laws and access.
 
A buddy brought this up to me yesterday. I proposed the same concerns about this as many of you have also. Even if it passes, I highly doubt I can just build up some sketchy (but legal) machine gun, or head down to black rifle with cash in hand and walk out with a suppressor. Taking the wording from this bill, it would seem like I could do just that, but I don't think thats gonna exactly play out like it does in my fantasy land dream world.

I keep saying MO is the best kept secret going, shhhhhhhh don't tell anyone, we don't want you guys moving here and F'n it up for the rest of us. Besides, it gets 100+ degrees every year, you guys couldn't hack it.
 
A buddy brought this up to me yesterday. I proposed the same concerns about this as many of you have also. Even if it passes, I highly doubt I can just build up some sketchy (but legal) machine gun, or head down to black rifle with cash in hand and walk out with a suppressor. Taking the wording from this bill, it would seem like I could do just that, but I don't think thats gonna exactly play out like it does in my fantasy land dream world.

I keep saying MO is the best kept secret going, shhhhhhhh don't tell anyone, we don't want you guys moving here and F'n it up for the rest of us. Besides, it gets 100+ degrees every year, you guys couldn't hack it.

My wife's kin live in southern MO in the Ozarks...we've visited there a few times and heading out there again in July for a few weeks. We really like it and I don't mind the heat. The winters can be kind of wonky but shorter than here in NH. Fishing/hunting and hiking is wonderful out there. We really don't want to move because our kids and grandkids are all here in NH but from a purely economical and freedoms standpoint, we may have no real choice. Living in NH as a retired person, as I will be in 4 years is damned expensive unless you don't have a mortgage which I will for the rest of my life.
 
My wife's kin live in southern MO in the Ozarks...we've visited there a few times and heading out there again in July for a few weeks. We really like it and I don't mind the heat. The winters can be kind of wonky but shorter than here in NH. Fishing/hunting and hiking is wonderful out there. We really don't want to move because our kids and grandkids are all here in NH but from a purely economical and freedoms standpoint, we may have no real choice. Living in NH as a retired person, as I will be in 4 years is damned expensive unless you don't have a mortgage which I will for the rest of my life.


I never thought Id be here. I retired from the Navy and moved back home to Dallas, and it had changed so much I might as well have been in any other big city dump. Came out to MO to help my company out and liked it so much I asked to stay. If your not a moron, and can stay employed in ANYTHING, you can have a nice life here.
 
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