MIRCS

[Drix]

The last few transfers I have made through a dealer to another person, the dealer produced a copy of the FA-10 for the buyer. In all cases I have asked for, and received, a copy of that FA-10 for my records.

Which is about all the good that copy will do you.

But that would not necessarily be accurate either. I can then just go to a random FFL, look at their license number and go to the portal and “transfer” the gun to them, but still keep the gun. If there is a question about the gun at some point, show them the “transfer” record and claim you no longer have the gun. No more boating accidents are needed then.

I've run into an issue where a gun was sold to an FFL and then purchased by me, the original owner then got into legal trouble and the police sized my firearm. The trouble was non-violent in nature and had nothing to do with firearms at all.

All the EFA10 paperwork in the world didn't matter, might as well have wiped my ass with it.

 

[namedpipes]

Untrue. Only 30K blue cards were damaged/disposed of. Info was direct from the source (FRB Director).

29k of those were my purchases

 

[namedpipes]

Which is about all the good that copy will do you.



I've run into an issue where a gun was sold to an FFL and then purchased by me, the original owner then got into legal trouble and the police sized my firearm. The trouble was non-violent in nature and had nothing to do with firearms at all.

All the EFA10 paperwork in the world didn't matter, might as well have wiped my ass with it.

Assuming this was reasonably recent and in Mass, have you tried to recover it through a lawyer, like Keith Langer (scrivener of NES fame)

 

[Drix]

Assuming this was reasonably recent and in Mass, have you tried to recover it through a lawyer, like Keith Langer (scrivener of NES fame)

Yes, it cost me a fair bit of pocket money to get the firearm back.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Really? Is this something new? I am by no means a SME in this area but I do try to keep up with enough stuff to keep me from going to the Graybar Hotel.

I've never done this and wouldn't be bothered. I don't see anything in MGL that requires you to tell the state that you transferred a gun to any FFL in MA or outside of MA. I'd want to see proof of a court case and guilty verdict for transferring to an FFL without doing a MIRCS eFA-10 before I'd be convinced otherwise.,

That's interesting because that second FA-10 of the 2-step dealer transfer process isn't supposed to be any of your business. I've requested same in the past (before the portal change) and been refused. Dealer said I was not entitled to license and personal information about the buyer.

I agree that it is strictly a transaction between the dealer and the buyer, you are out of the picture at that point.

But that would not necessarily be accurate either. I can then just go to a random FFL, look at their license number and go to the portal and “transfer” the gun to them, but still keep the gun. If there is a question about the gun at some point, show them the “transfer” record and claim you no longer have the gun. No more boating accidents are needed then.

Very true. I can't recall ever seeing a copy of the MA Dealer License close enough in a gun shop to read/write down the dealer's number (which also changes upon each renewal).

Which is about all the good that copy will do you.



I've run into an issue where a gun was sold to an FFL and then purchased by me, the original owner then got into legal trouble and the police sized my firearm. The trouble was non-violent in nature and had nothing to do with firearms at all.

All the EFA10 paperwork in the world didn't matter, might as well have wiped my ass with it.

Many LEOs/PDs just love to confiscate guns, even when illegal (theft) and not required.

Yes, it cost me a fair bit of pocket money to get the firearm back.

It's too bad that no DA would ever prosecute a LEO or PD for theft of a gun, but that is reality.

 

[556USER]

And I'm sure with the right queries to the database, the .gov could find out what you also transferred out just by seeing what S/N's have moved on after you owned it.

sorry MAJoe.. not meaning to pick on you here..

Bingo. The report that YOU pay for is just a raw scrape of the database. Well written queries could return much more substantive results.

 

[cathouse01]

29k of those were my purchases

It may be apocryphal, but in the Robert Mason’s book Chicken Hawk (about his experiences flying “skin ships” in Vietnam) he describes an incident where a supply chopper crashed into the ocean. Every supply sergeant in the area used it as an opportunity to clear their books of missing supplies/equipment by claiming it was on that downed Huey. His claim was that when they added it all up that one Huey (lift capacity of around 2 tons) had about 30,000 pounds of stuff on it.

 

[AHM]

... I can't recall ever seeing a copy of the MA Dealer License close enough in a gun shop to read/write down the dealer's number (which also changes upon each renewal). ...

Go fluorite, Len.

 

[FPrice]

That's interesting because that second FA-10 of the 2-step dealer transfer process isn't supposed to be any of your business. I've requested same in the past (before the portal change) and been refused. Dealer said I was not entitled to license and personal information about the buyer.

Yet, if you do a FTF you do get a copy of the FA-10, same information.

BTW, I normally ask the BUYER, not the FFL for a copy of the FA-10. I've not been refused so far. And if the FFL then refused, I would cross that shop off my list.

 

[EJFudd]

But that would not necessarily be accurate either. I can then just go to a random FFL, look at their license number and go to the portal and “transfer” the gun to them, but still keep the gun. If there is a question about the gun at some point, show them the “transfer” record and claim you no longer have the gun. No more boating accidents are needed then.

As long as you have a MA dealer's current license number, yes you could do that. There is no dealer 'PIN' required.

I think that is one reason why MA dealers are reluctant to give out their MA dealer license numbers.

 

[EJFudd]

I can't recall ever seeing a copy of the MA Dealer License close enough in a gun shop to read/write down the dealer's number (which also changes upon each renewal).

You aren't the only one. It's supposed to be posted where you can read it. Good luck with that. I always have to ask.

 

[EJFudd]

Yet, if you do a FTF you do get a copy of the FA-10, same information.

That's a deal between you and your buyer. Of course you have to know your buyer's ID. Not so with a dealer in between you and the buyer.

BTW, I normally ask the BUYER, not the FFL for a copy of the FA-10. I've not been refused so far.

If the buyer in a dealer transfer situation wants to give you a copy of his FA-10, that's his business.

And if the FFL then refused, I would cross that shop off my list.

... and that is your prerogative.

 

[free]

I needed to know the MA ffl number of a new shop in Dedham about three years ago. Could not see it on wall. Asked the owner by email what his number is (I was not in area to go back in). Never answered. Yes I could have called too, but I like emails as they are good written record of responses ( or not). So, I asked the town’s pd for the number. They answered pretty quick. An FFL needs to submit their app for a state firearms license to the local police, so I figured that was a good place to get the number from. I wasn't trying to get them in trouble, which I know my query would not, otherwise I would have found a different approach.

 

[EJFudd]

I needed to know the MA ffl number of a new shop in Dedham about three years ago. Could not see it on wall. Asked the owner by email what his number is (I was not in area to go back in). Never answered. Yes I could have called too, but I like emails as they are good written record of responses ( or not). So, I asked the town’s pd for the number. They answered pretty quick. An FFL needs to submit their app for a state firearms license to the local police, so I figured that was a good place to get the number from.

Sneaky!

 

[cathouse01]

If you’ve ever purchased a gun direct from the dealer their Federal Firearms Dealer License Number and their State Firearms Dealer License Number will be on the copy of the EFA 10 that they are required by law to give to the purchaser.

 

[PaulR]

The accountant read this as MICRS, not MIRCS......carry on...