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Military Rifle Policies

PeterGV

PeterGV

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I’m a gun guy but am sadly lacking in recent military knowledge. Can you guys school me a bit? I’ve been wondering for a while...

Does the US military still issue FA weapons to basic infantry troops as their standard rifle? I realize there are SAWs. But I’m asking about personal weapons.

I seem to recall after Vietnam there was a lot of discussion about the M16 on FA wasting ammo and not being accurate due to muzzle rise.

If somebody is assigned to an infantry unit today, what rifle do they get? Do they get an M4A1 or an M16A4? Does it have an FA setting or safe/semi/3RND?

I bet it depends on the specific branch of the service, right? What are the current policies?

Thanks for helping update my knowledge.
 
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To my knowledge with a few specialty exceptions it has been burst fire ever since the introduction of the M16A2, take that with a grain of salt as I am of the M16A1 era.
 
Different branches / MOS get different rifles. Some branches get old M16, some newer M4. To the best of my knowledge it is single or three shot burst for standard infantry rifles. Squad weapons are full auto capable. Certain MOS get certain exceptions (full auto vs. 3 shot).
 
I was with an infantry battalion in the Marine Corps (2003-2007) and the only fully auto weapons were the SAW and crew served weapons. Everyone else's weapon was semi fire/3 rnd burst.
 
PeterGV said:
I’m a gun guy but am sadly lacking in recent military knowledge. Can you guys school me a bit? I’ve been wondering for a while...

Does the US military still issue FA weapons to basic infantry troops as their standard rifle? I realize there are SAWs. But I’m asking about personal weapons.

I seem to recall after Vietnam there was a lot of discussion about the M16 on FA wasting ammo and not being accurate due to muzzle rise.

If somebody is assigned to an infantry unit today, what rifle do they get? Do they get an M4A1 or an M16A4? Does it have an FA setting or safe/semi/3RND?

I bet it depends on the specific branch of the service, right? What are the current policies?

Thanks for helping update my knowledge.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. Crew served weapons like the 50 cal, saw and heavy machine gun m240b yes. Most m4's are single shot or burst fire. Few use burst simply because the optics are pretty good. Some specialized groups use full auto. Full auto is for suppression. Single aimed fire center mass. Contrary to popular belief full auto is a pain to be accurate with and most times you walk the rounds in. Sort of hard to do that with a 30 round magazine. Does this answer your question?

And grenades are when folks get too close.
 
Thanks all -- That's very helpful.

Few use burst simply because the optics are pretty good.
Click to expand...

Ah! THAT's interesting. The ACOG changes everything, I guess. Are infantrymen all typically issued ACOGs these days?

I totally "get" the use of FA vs aimed fire, M60/M240 vs personal shoulder-fired weapons.

I've just wondered for quite a while how our men and women are equipped these days, but I couldn't get a clear answer from Mr. Google. I saw lots of conflicting information (some even in this thread, right?)... and I knew somebody here who's recently served could give me the definitive answer.

Thanks again (additional info/answers/clarifications always appreciated)
 
IIRC they are phasing out the M16 with the hopes of arming everyone with M4A1. No one ever uses the burst fire, the 20 inch barrels suck in urban areas and vehicles, and the full auto fire is great for house to house fighting and supression.
 
Just to be clear for the OP. The 3 round burst is still considered a machine gun (automatic) by the ATF.
 
goodlife30 said:
Of course. But nothing says auto like emptying the 200 round mag full auto on the SAW. God I love that weapon.
Click to expand...

USMC 03s are being issued IARs in the hope of giving the M249 the boot eventually, but Im sure that will be as quick as the Osprey / CH53 swap lol
 
Osprey was never meant to replace the 53, rather the Phrog. 53Ks will replace the 53Es.

I strongly disagree with the USMC's decision to swap out SAWs for IARs, but nobody asked me. You simply won't get the same suppression out of a mag fed rifle that you will with a SAW.

Mike
 
Another reason to hate three round burst and why the military is getting away from it, is it screws up the trigger pull on semi auto.
Instead of one consistent trigger pull on semi auto, there are three distinctly different trigger pulls,
So accuracy suffers for a feature nobody uses.
 
My 82d battalion was an early fielder of the M4. They were burst fire. We had a bunch of optics and stuff for them, but we seldom used them because nobody knew how yet. There’s the Army for ya...

When we went to Kosovo in ‘99, all the 26th MEU guys and Big Red One dudes we were there with were jealous. They still had M16A2s, I think, or some of the 1st ID guys might have still had A1s. We called them all “muskets.”

Of course, the OGA guys hypothetically on the upper floors of our building took a similarly dim view of our M4s. Hypothetically.

In my era, soldiers were highly discouraged from anything except semiauto fire. Highly. The USAMU guys were selling that at the time.
 
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crazymjb said:
Osprey was never meant to replace the 53, rather the Phrog. 53Ks will replace the 53Es.

I strongly disagree with the USMC's decision to swap out SAWs for IARs, but nobody asked me. You simply won't get the same suppression out of a mag fed rifle that you will with a SAW.

Mike
Click to expand...


Yup sorry, Osprey was meant to replace the CH46, heavy lift is still the CH53. Im glad Ill never step foot in any one of them either way lol.

If the MK48 gets fielded properly, youll never miss the M249. The IAR gunners would then be far more effective. That of course is in a perfect world.
 
GPP said:
Yup sorry, Osprey was meant to replace the CH46, heavy lift is still the CH53. Im glad Ill never step foot in any one of them either way lol.

If the MK48 gets fielded properly, youll never miss the M249. The IAR gunners would then be far more effective. That of course is in a perfect world.
Click to expand...

I have this lasting memory of sitting on the troop bench of a CH-46 as the pilot was flying the heck out the helicopter nap of the earth through valleys and popping up over hills -- it was very cool.

But the whole time I was preoccupied watching hydraulic fluid drip from above, in the area of rear rotor, onto the deck below.

I am thinking this thing is going to land in a minute and you are going to be expected to go charging down that ramp, don't slip on the hydraulic fluid and look like a dumb ass! [laugh]
 
CatSnoutSoup said:
I have this lasting memory of sitting on the troop bench of a CH-46 as the pilot was flying the heck out the helicopter nap of the earth through valleys and popping up over hills -- it was very cool.

But the whole time I was preoccupied watching hydraulic fluid drip from above, in the area of rear rotor, onto the deck below.

I am thinking this thing is going to land in a minute and you are going to be expected to go charging down that ramp, don't slip on the hydraulic fluid and look like a dumb ass! [laugh]
Click to expand...


Of all the memories to wake up in cold sweats and screaming from, Ill take slipping and falling and looking like a dumb ass for 1000 Alex!

Whilst rockstarring my way around Afghanistan in 2011/2012, I was lucky(?) enough to fly "blue" air on many occasions. "Blue" air meant you were sardined into one of Eric Princes aging Mi8s or CH46s. Both of these airframes barfed hydraulic fluid all over me, my kit, other pax, and the neighbors cat, in an alarming fashion. Every single crew chief that I met was a Vietnam Vet, and looked like Steven Stills. Of course, every single one of them had been there and done that, and that fact alone put me at ease.
Something to be said for the old machines, they got the job done all the time, even when pissing hydraulic fluids
 

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