Mihos lays out stance on guns, helmets

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senorFrog, you're wasting your time with Gary and M1911. I have the utmost respect for other's opinions, I just vehemently disagree with them, and they just as vehemently insist we're throwing away our votes. If we continue to vote for the one we're handed we'll never get anywhere in this state - and, M1911, if we continue to insist something can't be done, then guess what? It can't.

But as far as I'm concerned it can be done, and I'm sticking to my guns (pun intended - I don't trust Muffy for a minute, our guns are her political pawn in this state). I'm voting for Mihos. My conscience won't let me do otherwise.

By the way, Mihos is going to that Marine's benefit next week (Cotnoir? I'm sorry, I forgot his name) up in Lawrence (?? I really have to check this out again, we may go, too). He's a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment. We need to support these people, not give up on them before they really get started.
 

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I all for a large number of the positions Mihos stands for, but as it has been voiced before; will enough sheeple vote for him ? My biggest concern is the same as Garys, that he will wind up as nothing more than a "Spoiler".

OTOH, I'd really like to see him win.
 
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Len-2A Training

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Ann, with due respect if you took a "generic poll" of registered voters and asked them if they would vote for an Independent candidate, as opposed to R or D (no names, just a poll on "attitudes" to non-party high office positions), I am certain that the vast majority would admit that they would never vote other than R or D.

If you tally up the votes of those that have run before with the "I" tag, you will find that they are always a very low percentage and usually not even reported by MSM. Carla was a sole exception in one single election, but still her percentage was too low to be considered an effective candidate (defined as someone who stands a chance of winning).
 

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LenS said:
Ann, with due respect if you took a "generic poll" of registered voters and asked them if they would vote for an Independent candidate, as opposed to R or D (no names, just a poll on "attitudes" to non-party high office positions), I am certain that the vast majority would admit that they would never vote other than R or D.
Unfortunately true. The sheep always vote in a flock, and that flock has to be an "official" party.

I'd still love to see Mihos win, though.
 

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reinbeau said:
If we continue to vote for the one we're handed we'll never get anywhere in this state -
Words worth reading again written by my wife. Common sense for all. If everyone who liked what Milhos stood for voted for him we might finally see some change in this state.
 
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LenS said:
Ann, with due respect if you took a "generic poll" of registered voters and asked them if they would vote for an Independent candidate, as opposed to R or D (no names, just a poll on "attitudes" to non-party high office positions), I am certain that the vast majority would admit that they would never vote other than R or D.

If you tally up the votes of those that have run before with the "I" tag, you will find that they are always a very low percentage and usually not even reported by MSM. Carla was a sole exception in one single election, but still her percentage was too low to be considered an effective candidate (defined as someone who stands a chance of winning).
I know, I'm [horse] , but why oh why can't you all see that if we continue to think like this nothing will ever change??? Get out there and talk three people into thinking and not being sheeple. Get them to do the same thing. Sooner or later things will have to change, if you can get everyones' heads out of their asses!

But no, we'll all keep playing the same game by their rules and let them win. That line of thinking is absolutely infuriating to me. [jihad]
 
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Garys said:
Besides, it's more important over the long run to make sure that more Republicans get elected to the state legislature. Not that there seems to be a plan for that to happen.
Romney had a plan for that. Seems to have failed. No one voted for them.

Healey won't do anything. She'll be overridden every time anyways. Another Jane Swift. Vote for Christy. Come on dude...

Vote for Christy,
So you won't be Triste

Triste means sad in spanish. Pronounced, TRIS-TAY for you gringos.

ETA - Sorry, best I can do after a few coronas. [laugh]
 
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reinbeau said:
if we continue to think like this nothing will ever change??? Get out there and talk three people into thinking and not being sheeple.
How bout we try to do like a web appearance with Christy here on chat or something?
 
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reinbeau said:
I know, I'm [horse] , but why oh why can't you all see that if we continue to think like this nothing will ever change??? Get out there and talk three people into thinking and not being sheeple. Get them to do the same thing. Sooner or later things will have to change, if you can get everyones' heads out of their asses!

But no, we'll all keep playing the same game by their rules and let them win. That line of thinking is absolutely infuriating to me. [jihad]
A Big +1 to that Ann. If you're thinking inside the Republican Box, or thinking inside the Democrat box, you're STILL just thinking inside a box.

Arrrr

-Weer'd Beard

PS: Len, M1911, and Gary: who are you voting for, and why? I totally understand your feelings about a 3rd party vote (Hell I remember saying the same thing about Nader in 2000) but will that still be so much as for you to actully GIVE a vote for Muffy?
 
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J

JellyFish

If Mihos REALLY wanted to win, he'd have beaten the Poodle in the primaries. But since he didn't run against her, he's got zero chance of being elected.

Sorry guys but this "think outside the box" stuff is going to help elect a leftist in November. The Poodle isn't what I'd prefer but if a democrat is elected, things are going to be far worse here than they've been to date for gun owners.

The Right is so weak in this state that it simply cannot afford to split its vote between Mihos and the Poodle.

Remember what happened with Perot - do you want 4 or 8 years of a Clinton type governor on top of our out-of-control-left-wing legislature??? I sure as hell don't. Please wake up and don't throw your vote away on a third party impossibility.
 
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senorFrog said:
Romney had a plan for that. Seems to have failed. No one voted for them.

The reason for failure is that MASSGOP has been hijacked by it's Chairman Darrlell Crate, who just happens to be the CFO of Affilliated Managers Group, Sean Healey's company. While they run around patting themselves on the back for recruiting candidates to run for office, they provide no support for the candidates, last time around going 0 for 130. While Crate constantly praises MASSGOP for being on pace to raise nearly $5 million dollars for this election cycle, he has also dictated that none of the $$ will go to candidates other tha Kerry Healey. So. MASSGOP is for all practical purposes, only an extension of the Healey campaign. In all likelyhood, as stated to me by my Republican state rep, seats will be lost in both branches of the legislature. This will put the legislature in a position that a roll call vote in either branch will not even have to be offered for bills to pass. The discontent within the party itself because it's leadership, has led a number of GOP state committeemen to state that they too will vote for Mihos. We can all stand by and watch this happen, or we can become involved and take the action neccessary to put the people we want in office. Unfortunately, with the current politcal system this means opening our wallets and financially supporting those we want elected. Rick Barton, A rated by the NRA (www.rickbarton.us) and Jeff Beatty (www.beattyforcongress.com) are both running against two of the most liberal congressmen in our MA delegation. Lary Frisoli (www.larryfrisoli.com) is running against Martha Coakley for AG. All three are up against entrenched politicians with lots of $$. If you want change, check out their websites, see where they stand on the issues, and if you like what you see, support them both financially and by spreading the word.
 
J

JellyFish

I gave Larry money before, maybe it's time to make another donation. Sure would be nice to see him win.

The situation with the lack of a two party system in this state is truly awful. It's had a terrible effect on this state but I don't know how you fix it. The GOP seems asleep at the wheel.

av8r said:
senorFrog said:
Lary Frisoli (www.larryfrisoli.com) is running against Martha Coakley for AG. All three are up against entrenched politicians with lots of $$. If you want change, check out their websites, see where they stand on the issues, and if you like what you see, support them both financially and by spreading the word.
 
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KMaurer

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<Mod>Let's try to keep it civil boys and girls. I don't mean one person in particular; I mean everyone.</Mod> The voting for lizards debate is one I've been in several times in the past, sometimes pro-lizard, sometimes anti. It all too often ends up with more people getting angry than getting persuaded. So, if you've actually got a point to make, make it. If the best you've got is to call other forum members with whom you disagree names, then I'd strongly suggest that you sit back and contemplate whether you actually have anything worthwhile to say. Not everyone who's backing Healy is a blind sheep; not everyone backing Mihos is a deluded idealist; and not everyone who's backing one of the Dem candidates is a ... never mind, forget that last one.

Ken
 
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KMaurer said:
<Mod>Let's try to keep it civil boys and girls.</Mod> If you've actually got a point to make, make it. If the best you've got is to call other forum members with whom you disagree names, then I'd strongly suggest that you sit back and contemplate whether you actually have anything worthwhile to say. Not everyone who's backing Healy is a deluded sheep; not everyone backing Mihos is a deluded idealist; and not everyone who's backing one of the Dem candidates is a ... never mind, forget that last one.

Ken
Since I singled out no one and insulted no one, I really don't know why you're coming down on me. So only certain groups of people can be called sheeple? You want me moderated? Fine, then, I'll moderate myself - and still think that people who continue to follow the ones who aren't helping us at all are pretty - now, what can I say? Silly? Crazy? Einstein said the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result...that certainly seems to be the case here.

Sit down, young lady, and behave yourself. Bah. I'm done.

Enjoy the status quo.
 

M1911

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Let's take a look at the history of 3rd party candidates in MA. Not too long ago, Jack E. Robinson ran as a Republican for the senate against Teddy. For those of you who don't remember, Robinson was a complete idiot. He was basically disavowed by the Republican party, for good reason.

Running against Robinson was probably the best Libertarian candidate we've had in MA, Carla Howell. Many Republicans voted for Carla because 1) Robinson was so bad, and 2) as a protest vote, it didn't matter because everyone knew Kennedy would win.

So in that environment, you would expect the Libertarian candidate to do far better than if there had been a viable Republican opponent. In other words, this was just about the best possible result for an independent candidate.

What was the result? As expected, Kennedy won overwhelmingly. No surprise there.

But Carla Howell couldn't even beat Robinson. She was by far the better candidate, but she finished behind Robinson.

The Republican party basically guaranteed to Mihos that they would put him on the primary ballot. He demured. Why? Because Mihos knew that he would lose to Healey. He knows he won't beat Healey in the general election. If he thought he could have beaten Healey, he would have run in the Republican primary, beaten Healey, and thus picked up the support of the Republican party. He did not because he knows he couldn't beat her in the primary and he knows he can't beat her in the general election. So why is Mihos running if he knows he can't win? Revenge. He's still mad at the Republican party so he's poking a stick in their eye.

So who is Mihos going to steal votes from? Do you think he's going to take votes from Deval Patrick, darling of the Cambridge set? No, he's going to take votes from Healey.

Please be realistic. Wishing and wanting isn't going to get Mihos the win. Mihos is not a strong candidate. Did you watch the debate that Mihos appeared at? He's got money, but came off as not-ready-for-prime-time and he cannot win. He's a weaker candidate than Healey. So, compared to the Kennedy-Robinson-Howell matchup, where Howell couldn't even beat a very weak candidate, we've got a very weak third party candidate against a much stronger Republican candidate. As a result, Mihos is going to get far less than Howell.

During the Clinton, Bush, Perot campaign, lots of folks "voted their conscience" and voted for Perot. As a result, we got Clinton. Bush, Sr., wasn't great, but Clinton was worse.

Healey won't be great, but you all know that Patrick or Reilly is going to be worse.
If we continue to vote for the one we're handed we'll never get anywhere in this state - and, M1911, if we continue to insist something can't be done, then guess what? It can't.
The reality is that Mihos is not a viable candidate. He cannot win. Even if everyone on the board here quit their job and volunteered for Mihos full-time, he would still lose. We've got a choice between not-great (Healey) and terrible (Reilly or Patrick). Wishing and wanting Mihos to be viable isn't going to make that happen. He doesn't have the organization. He doesn't have the support. He doesn't have the charisma.

Hoping and wishing for the impossible isn't going to make it happen.

IIRC, the most recent polls show Healey within a couple percentage points of Reilly or Patrick, with Mihos trailing. Give Mihos votes to Healey and she's over the top.

I know you want Mihos to win. And I wanted to win this weekend's Powerball.

The realistic choices that we have are 1) Reilly/Patrick or 2) Healey. Make your choice.
 
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M1911 said:
The Republican party basically guaranteed to Mihos that they would put him on the primary ballot. He demured. Why? Because Mihos knew that he would lose to Healey. He knows he won't beat Healey in the general election. If he thought he could have beaten Healey, he would have run in the Republican primary, beaten Healey, and thus picked up the support of the Republican party. He did not because he knows he couldn't beat her in the primary and he knows he can't beat her in the general election. So why is Mihos running if he knows he can't win? Revenge. He's still mad at the Republican party so he's poking a stick in their eye.
OK, I'm confused. Why is Mihos mad at the Republicans if they offered him a spot in the primaries?
 

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Mihos is still mad at the Republicans because Swift tried to boot him off the Turnpike Board. He hounded her with a lawsuit years after the event, when the point was moot. He's mad that the Republican faithful backed Swift. He can't get back at Swift any more, so he's going after the Republican faithful. What better way than by giving the Democrats the Governor's office?
 

drgrant

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reinbeau said:
Since I singled out no one and insulted no one, I really don't know why you're coming down on me. So only certain groups of people can be called sheeple? You want me moderated? Fine, then, I'll moderate myself - and still think that people who continue to follow the ones who aren't helping us at all are pretty - now, what can I say? Silly? Crazy? Einstein said the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result...that certainly seems to be the case here.

Sit down, young lady, and behave yourself. Bah. I'm done.

Enjoy the status quo.
+1000. IMO in this state voting for the same REPUBLICRATS over and over
again is pointless. The two party choices seem to be limited to a smelly democrat
or an Arlen Sphincter wannabe. (A RINO). IMO even if one is
a republican, the party has to be punished enough through offvoting into
believing that RINOs are no longer saleable candidates. EG- if the republicans ever
want to win again they have to produce a real candidate.

I disagree with the people that say things will get worse- This state already
sucks, badly. Even poking a RINO in the eye and getting a democrap
out of the deal is a step forward compared to what we have now. The
RINOS are powerless anyways. (Romney tried to kill the pike but failed
due to the back-end hack-tivism of all the politicos who have kids that
run tollbooths for a salary thats way too high).

The sad thing in all of this, is even by some miracle, Mihos won, he probably
would still be crippled the same way the rinos are, he'd just fight the BS
a lot more... and pissing off the "MA hack pool" is priceless. It's
about the only joy a normal person can derive from living here... (eg, hearing
Howie Carr excoriate a politico with the evidence in hand is priceless).


-Mike
 

M1911

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IMO even if one is a republican, the party has to be punished enough through offvoting into believing that RINOs are no longer saleable candidates. EG- if the republicans ever want to win again they have to produce a real candidate.
I can't say that I agree with this. The reality in this state is that most people are fairly liberal. When folks use the RINO label, they generally use it as a pejorative against Republicans who are pro-choice, pro gay marriage, against the death penalty, etc. Personally, I'm pro-choice, pro gay marriage, and I go back and forth on the death penalty.

Think about the electorate in MA. The largest block of voters is the suburban vote. A "true" conservative doesn't have a chance in MA. The only Republicans in MA who have a chance a so-called RINO candidates.
 
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+1000. IMO in this state voting for the same REPUBLICRATS over and over
again is pointless. The two party choices seem to be limited to a smelly democrat
or an Arlen Sphincter wannabe. (A RINO). IMO even if one is
a republican, the party has to be punished enough through offvoting into
believing that RINOs are no longer saleable candidates. EG- if the republicans ever
want to win again they have to produce a real candidate.

I disagree with the people that say things will get worse- This state already
sucks, badly. Even poking a RINO in the eye and getting a democrap
out of the deal is a step forward compared to what we have now. The
RINOS are powerless anyways. (Romney tried to kill the pike but failed
due to the back-end hack-tivism of all the politicos who have kids that
run tollbooths for a salary thats way too high).

The sad thing in all of this, is even by some miracle, Mihos won, he probably
would still be crippled the same way the rinos are, he'd just fight the BS
a lot more... and pissing off the "MA hack pool" is priceless. It's
about the only joy a normal person can derive from living here... (eg, hearing
Howie Carr excoriate a politico with the evidence in hand is priceless).


-Mike

Mike, I couldn't agree with you more. From what I read here, Christy, while likely to lose, will pick up mostly "issues" voters that have been disaffected by the Republican's lack of attention to these voter's issues (ie. 2nd Ammendment issues). If the defection of enough "issues" voter from Healy to Christy causes Healey to lose to the D, well then guess what. Next time around, the Republican Party, as pathetic as it has become, will need to address the concerns of these disaffected voters if they have any hope of regaining the Corner Office. This is how platform change is brought about. When the defection of a block of voters has the power to cost the party elections, the block now has leverage and can get their issues addressed. Continuing to support the status quo will only continue to get your issues ignored.

I also don't feel the same sense of alarm that some do over a possible D victory of the Governor's office. As long as we continue to have such lopsided legislative representation, the Governor, regardless of party, will continue to be, for practical purposes, largely ceremonial in function.

The personal agenda's of the legislative leadership often have not much in common with the official Democrat Platform. I don't see the legislative leaders somehow deferring their unchecked power to a Democrat governor. I don't see Riley, or Patrick having much more success than Romney in advancing their personal agendas if they run counter to the agendas of the Speaker and the Senate President.
 
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Len-2A Training

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Before anyone spouts that the Gov doesn't necessarily have much power, you better spend some time studying what an EO (Executive Order) is in MA and when/how the Gov can implement such a thing.

A couple of years ago, Romney issued an EO that turned the world upside down for MA Notaries Public! Since it only effected a small number of people, people here and most residents of MA are oblivious to it.

Gov. Reilly or Deval could issue an EO that would kill the gun business in MA and/or do lots of other bad things . . . all WITHOUT any legislative body oversight.

Teaching someone (Republican Party) a lesson is all well and good . . . just remember that old adage about NOT throwing the baby out with the bath water!
 

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During the Clinton, Bush, Perot campaign, lots of folks "voted their conscience" and voted for Perot. As a result, we got Clinton. Bush, Sr., wasn't great, but Clinton was worse.
This was the first election ever that the NRA didn"t back a conservative candidate because what Bush Sr. had done to gun owners in this country. Newt Gingrich and Bob Dole were up to their stalemate antics. Republican voters were not impressed with the way things were going long before Perot ever threw his hat in. Had Bush not abandoned his base Perot and certainly not Clinton {Comeback Kid} never would stood a snowballs chance becoming POTUS. Saying Perot helped Bush lose the election might make some FEEL better but it leaves out some very important facts. Clinton was an unknown who got a shot at POTUS not because he was qualified but because the guy who had the job wasn't doing it. [thinking] The last time I voted for the lesser of two evils I STILL voted for evil.[cheers]
 

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So does Healy really have a vote to split?

Arrrr

-Weer'd Beard
People may not love her, but most people are going to go with the candidate that is closest to their philosophy and that they think has a chance to win. Mihos MIGHT win, but would it do him (or us) much good. An independent has no loyalists in either party.

Gary
 

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I suggest people re-read Post # 8 in
http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5426

If Hillman was telling me the truth, and they get an endorsement for Healey/Hillman from GOAL, perhaps she might actually try to help us (depending on what the legistraitors allow her to do). Reed Hillman is very approachable, especially by those in the pro-gun camp.
 

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M1911, you hit the nail on the head. Your analysis was better than anything I've ever read from a "professional" political analyst. A vote for Mihos = a vote for the Democrat.

The only independent candidate that has a chance anywhere this year is Joe Lieberman. He's probably going to lose tomorrow in CT, however he very likely will win the general election in the fall. What he does after that will be interesting to watch.

Gary
 
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This is a copy of an E-Mail that I sent a week ago to Christys campain. No reply yet. Kerry Healey is out of the question. I just realized that I have never heard her talk. And Deval L. Patrick is in deep shit with his Coke a Cola connection. Something to do with pesticides in the Coke in India. The only one really saying anything is Chris Gabrieli. I don't know where he stands on gun laws. And IMO Tom Reilly seems like a potential Pecker Head.
If the 1200 plus members of this forum could pressure one of these people to get behind our wants and needs then that would be great.

Hi Christy

I would like to know what sort of fixing the gun permit situation you have in mind. I am a combat vet and have a clean record, recently retired early and have been working unarmed security at low wages for aprox 14 years. I have decided to get a class A license to carry. That will increase my hourly by $6.35. I am fully qualified by local standards for the LTC.

Here is the rub. To get a work permit I need a letter from my present unarmed employer stating that I need a gun to do my job. To get an armed guard company to hire me they want me to have a permit. No win situation.

Another rub It is totally up to the police chief in the town you live in to decide if he wants you to have a permit. He may think you look like his mother in-law and has the right to deny you regardless of your 2nd amendment rights.

Then if you apply for one for self protection you need to write the chief and explain why you feel your life is in deadly danger from an outside source.
Again the rub If you need one for the above then you most likely have done something bad to warrant the need and do not qualify as a proper person to carry.

I fully understand the need for laws but we need some sort of state clearing house like the RMV to issue our 2nd amendment rights without prejustice. This message and your reply will be posted in several gun owners forums. Thank You very much. Dave
 

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And IMO Tom Reilly seems like a potential Pecker Head.
Potential? Potential?

Reilly is the guy who single-handedly made a whole bunch of guns unobtainable in MA. Reilly is the guy who single-handedly made it nearly impossible to purchase ammunition and components via mail-order.

And yet you say he is only "potentially" a pecker-head? Might I suggest that you have not been paying attention?
 
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