MGTOW

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You can live your life happy knowing you had children. Even in good marriages, I can see how couples would eventually separate and go their own way...after raising children. I've known a few people whose parents divorced when they were real young, and saw how it destroyed them. I don't see too much harm divorcing after the children were properly raised as long as the divorce process isn't some war of attrition, but that might be wishful thinking.

I see MGTOW as an option for 40 and above males who has been burned out my marriage, dating, divorce etc. I'm still relatively young and I would like to date, have meaningful relationships and a family. The problem is the twenty-something female isn't interested in any of that: her main focus is her career and education. It's no secret that after women entered the workforce, divorce rates shot up.
 

76Too

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The maximum takeoff weight (MTOW) or maximum gross takeoff weight (MGTOW) or maximum takeoff mass (MTOM) of an aircraft is the maximum weight at which the pilot is allowed to attempt to take off, due to structural or other limits.

Maximum takeoff weight - Wikipedia

This thread does not meet my expectations.
It's actually a bit more relevant than you're giving it credit for. The OP is stating that adding (+1 woman) to his already (man+2 children) = less time hunting and fishing. How's he supposed to spread his wings to fly if there's a woman nagging him to take out the gahbidge? So OP's acronym is actually EQUAL to yours. Now we can all be friends again.
 

calsdad

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Boring likely because lacking in perspective, but that's fine, some guys need the constant deluge of women/children in their
life to function, I get that, even if I don't fully understand it. I have friends that basically go bonkers when they're alone for anything
more than about 2 weeks or so.



Bad women are exponentially worse than the system. 10,000 times worse. Alone is better than sucking for crap and waking up every morning wondering "why am I doing this".

-Mike
I really don't get the can't be alone thing. I could be alone when I was a kid. As a young adult I didn't always have a screaming need to go hang out with the crowd , and now in my mid-50's I WISH I could find more time alone.

The wife used to take business trips that could last a week or more. I'd get home from work and just do whatever I wanted. Watch whatever war movie I wanted to watch, eat dinner - or not. Go work out in the shop for a while late at night, go see friends - whatever. I have a 9 month old at home now that I love more than anything - but I'll admit there are days when I really wish the wife would just disappear.

I have to agree - a bad woman in your life is probably just about the worst thing imaginable. Being alone is FAR preferable to being stuck with a bad woman. I've known a number of guys who were stuck with wives that were just raving loons and were making their lives friggin miserable. The worst part is being stuck under the boot of the legal system and being well into your 50's when your female partner loses her shit and starts threatening to screw you over.

That's a recipe for an early death.

I ran across the MGTOW stuff on Youtube probably two or three years ago. Reading thru Chateau Heartiste was another good education, but my "education" along those lines began more than 30 years ago - when I spent a decent amount of time during college actually reading up on hard core feminist literature. At the time I had some misguided notion that maybe understanding feminism might help me understand women. What I learned was that the hard core feminist left are as big a bunch of scumbags as any other totalitarian movement. But it also gave me a lifelong awareness of the dark side of women - and I've managed to avoid some of the epic level BS I've seen friends and coworkers get involved in with the women in their lives.

When I started reading the MGTOW stuff - I had to laugh. A lot of these guys came across like they just learned about the stuff and it was all new. I was like: " dude - I knew this stuff 3 freaking decades ago - where the hell were you?"

My personal assessment is that popular culture, the law, feminism - etc. .... have all gotten into this mode of portraying ( I don't want to use the word conspiring - but that may be what has been going on) women as if they can do no wrong. Men have unfortunately bought into this. On Chateau Heartiste - I used to see it described as "thirst". Thirst is when men do all sorts of stupid shit to please women. Not sure how true this is because I never lived during that time - but I get the impression that in ages gone by men were a lot less impressed with women than they are in our modern age. And they recognized that women in general have an awful lot of faults that can make them an awful burden for a man stuck with a bad one.

One of the things that has beaten the thought of living happily ever after with the perfect woman out of my head - is just watching the shennanigans of my wife's friends and the relationships people I know.

I get to hear about all the stupid shit my wife's friends do, read the texts, see their financial records - etc.

Every now and then the wife will say something like " If I die you're going to take my life insurance payment and run off with a younger woman". I tell her: "look - I'm in my 50's. Not too many younger women are going to care about me - and all the women who are age appropriate are damaged in some way. If they never had a relationship - they're screwed up. If they have had a relationship and are divorced - there's likely a very good reason. I've gotten to the point where I'm actually very suspicious of any woman who would actually want to be in a relationship with me. I've seen all the dirty details of all your friends who are broken up. I'm just not interested in ANY of that shit in my life. I'm pretty sure that if you die in a car accident - I'm going to be perfectly happy being alone - just me and the baby"
 

SKumar

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I've gotten to the point where I'm actually very suspicious of any woman who would actually want to be in a relationship with me.
A man will love a woman unconditionally.
A woman loves opportunistically. In other words, she'll love you on the condition that you provide resources: money, status, security, etc. When she loses your resources (or finds a better opportunity), she's out.

I'm going to be perfectly happy being alone - just me and the baby"
Even though theres a 0% chance I'll ever marry, I've always envisioned myself as a superhuman father. I would raise him to be a masculine, well-mannered, hard-working, ambitious and valued gentleman. The opposite of the way things are going nowadays. I could just adopt some kid from India and everyone would think he's my biological.
 
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My old high school girlfriend wanted to get back with me. She was overweight, on
disability / welfare, has her 30 YO Daughter living as a hermit in her bedroom, Daughter
has never held a job and is living off of Mom. She has five cats, a Rabbit, and a turtle
that lives in the bathtub.

I told her she doesn't just have Baggage, She has a whole FREIGHT TRAIN!

Needless to say, I passed on that disaster.

Malodave
 

Roadglide

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After a 15 year marriage that ended in a divorce where I got full custody if our 2 daughters while she is living it up 1500 miles away in Florida, and another 4 year relationship where she was another financial liability, I'm done with relationships. I've worked hard to become debt free and saved up enough money to put 50% down on an off the grid cabin on 30 acres. My oldest daughter moved out 2 weeks ago and my youngest is a senior in high school, I've been raising them by myself for the past 10 years.
Now I go hunting and fishing when I want, for as long as I want.
With today's liberal femnazi climate, females are nothing but a liability.

Just thought I'd share.View attachment 297421
I agree. Unless you have the perfect situation fall into your lap you’re better off alone to run your life your way. The thing I’ve learned the hard way over the years of many failed relationships (none were ever through marriage thank god) is there is no perfect person or relationship. When you find someone you have to weigh the pros and cons. You take the negatives and ask yourself can I live with them. If not you move along and you keep moving on until you find the one that has the least amount of negatives that you can live with. People/circumstances change so sometimes that theory doesn’t even work but it’s the closest thing I can find that has gotten me to a good spot in the crapshoot we call life. I found a good woman who doesn’t drive me too nuts (which is no easy task.)I plan on staying unmarried for as long as possible to weed out as much bullshit as possible. Good luck to you and enjoy your new found freedom.
 
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I agree. Unless you have the perfect situation fall into your lap you’re better off alone to run your life your way. The thing I’ve learned the hard way over the years of many failed relationships (none were ever through marriage thank god) is there is no perfect person or relationship. When you find someone you have to weigh the pros and cons. You take the negatives and ask yourself can I live with them. If not you move along and you keep moving on until you find the one that has the least amount of negatives that you can live with. People/circumstances change so sometimes that theory doesn’t even work but it’s the closest thing I can find that has gotten me to a good spot in the crapshoot we call life. I found a good woman who doesn’t drive me too nuts (which is no easy task.)I plan on staying unmarried for as long as possible to weed out as much bullshit as possible. Good luck to you and enjoy your new found freedom.
For me, I see absolutely no pros of getting into a relationship.
 

SKumar

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When you find someone you have to weigh the pros and cons. You take the negatives and ask yourself can I live with them. If not you move along and you keep moving on until you find the one that has the least amount of negatives that you can live with
A man will overlook a woman's flaws.

A woman will only see his flaws.
 

drgrant

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A man will overlook a woman's flaws.

A woman will only see his flaws.
Perhaps, but this is also a huge part of the reason men stay with bad women. Too many men suck for crap, which in turn feeds the entitlement mentality of bad women....
 

drgrant

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I agree. Unless you have the perfect situation fall into your lap you’re better off alone to run your life your way. The thing I’ve learned the hard way over the years of many failed relationships (none were ever through marriage thank god) is there is no perfect person or relationship. When you find someone you have to weigh the pros and cons. You take the negatives and ask yourself can I live with them. If not you move along and you keep moving on until you find the one that has the least amount of negatives that you can live with.
IMO if you have to rationalize this to that degree then you’re already in a bad relationship, or are trying to convince yourself to accept crap. What you’re describing is part of the stockholm syndrome thing that gets men in trouble. Nobody is perfect but if her flaws constantly marinate in your brain that way it’s already trouble.... or at least that list better be things you can basically joke with her about. Men rationalizing things like shitty behavior etc is dangerous...
 

Roadglide

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IMO if you have to rationalize this to that degree then you’re already in a bad relationship, or are trying to convince yourself to accept crap. What you’re describing is part of the stockholm syndrome thing that gets men in trouble. Nobody is perfect but if her flaws constantly marinate in your brain that way it’s already trouble.... or at least that list better be things you can basically joke with her about. Men rationalizing things like shitty behavior etc is dangerous...
I’m in a good relationship because of that rationalization. It’s when I let the little head think for the big head I got into trouble. Nobody is crap free. We all deal with it on some level. Her flaws are not marinating in my brain. I’ve already accepted them and she’s accepted mine. We deal with them our own way and it works well for the most part. Maybe things will change, I don’t have a crystal ball. Doesn’t work for everyone but for now it has gotten me as close to Xanadu as possible with a woman.
 

Spanz

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My old high school girlfriend wanted to get back with me. She was overweight, on
disability / welfare, has her 30 YO Daughter living as a hermit in her bedroom, Daughter
has never held a job and is living off of Mom. She has five cats, a Rabbit, and a turtle
that lives in the bathtub.

I told her she doesn't just have Baggage, She has a whole FREIGHT TRAIN!

Needless to say, I passed on that disaster.

Malodave
Dude! You are missing out on some SERIOUS bathtime fun!
 

drgrant

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I’m in a good relationship because of that rationalization. It’s when I let the little head think for the big head I got into trouble. Nobody is crap free. We all deal with it on some level. Her flaws are not marinating in my brain. I’ve already accepted them and she’s accepted mine. We deal with them our own way and it works well for the most part. Maybe things will change, I don’t have a crystal ball. Doesn’t work for everyone but for now it has gotten me as close to Xanadu as possible with a woman.
I perhaps should be more specific it depends on what those flaws are, my point is a lot of men end up sucking for stuff they shouldn't, and that gets them in serious trouble. If we're considering stuff like "she puts the TP roll on the wrong way" or "she buys the wrong kind of toothpaste at the store and I always end up just buying my own" or "she talks on the phone too much" as flaws, then yeah, that's one thing, but that kind of stuff is almost meaningless crap/annoyances you can more or less just laugh about. On the other hand if we're talking stuff like having to walk around eggshells when dealing with her on issue X because Y and Z and then it makes it easier so she doesn't complain" or "I have to wait before I buy a new gun (with my own money that ive set aside for it) because she will complain" Or like that guy I talked about in the other thread who had the histrionic bitch in his life "But she puts a hot meal on the table when I get home from work". to justify eating terrorism. The rationalization men use with some horrible women is often terrifying. They allow women to violate the fabric of their existence, and then justify it by saying "well it balances out because of this" but in reality, the balancing thing is rarely true.

Let me put it this way, when I was in a bad relationship I wish I had a voice coming from the other direction or a friend that just said something
like "that, that thing... that you just told me... say it again... do you know how f***ed up that actually sounds?"

-Mike
 

mibro

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My wife came into our relationship as a financial liability but I was young and dumb, 26.
My next relationship (not including short term dating) ended up with her being a financial liability also. I didn't want to outright ask about her finances but she had a job, a car, was paying her bills, and I knew what her rent was so she seemed ok in the finance department. What I didn't know until after she moved in is that she was living of her alimony that would end as soon as she moved in with someone. Then I found out she was in debt up to her eyeballs and couldn't afford to help with any bills.
In all seriousness I'm sorry that happened to you. Number two showed a total lack of integrity in not disclosing that before moving in.

We're talking about intractable problems here the human race is never going to solve. My Israeli friend, once very religious, says it's no accident the first story in the Torah describes how God creates the Earth and the universe and the second story describes how the first woman talked the first man into some bullsh!t scheme that got them both kicked out of the Garden of Eden.

Deep wisdom from an ancient Judaic writer.
 
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blindfire

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Isn't this how some of the mass shooters start out? lol

Seriously though...good for you on stepping up and taking care of your girls. THAT is what makes you a man.
 

drgrant

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In all honesty, MODERN FEMINISM created the wake-up call that gave way to MGTOW.

So thank you feminism! Good luck on your own. I know us men will be fine. :)
It's way more than that, some of it is just cultural stuff being broken down or an ability for men to freely violate previous taboos without
causing problems. The social and familial pressure for men to marry and produce offspring even 40 years ago was tremendous compared to
now, although it still exists in some segments and sometimes its even justified. You have a good point though, because feminism enabled a lot
of those changes, for better or worse.

Also I think MGTOW is a spectrum not just some monolithic idea in a canister. At one end of the spectrum are incel retards that just rant continuously about how terrible all women are, and at the other end of it is more socially normal men that have now become hyper aware of the danger of bad relationships etc, and also have wholesale rejected ancient social norms in the interest of protecting themselves going forward....


-Mike
 

drgrant

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Isn't this how some of the mass shooters start out? lol
Yes, some of them are incel retards waving an mgtow flag, but correlating mgtow as a generality with mass shootings is sort of
retarded. It's like saying "gun owners cause violent crime" etc. [laugh]
 

blindfire

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In all seriousness I'm sorry that happened to you. Number two showed a total lack of integrity in not disclosing that before moving in.

We're talking about intractable problems here the human race is never going to solve. My Israeli friend, once very religious, says it's no accident the first story in the Torah describes how God creates the Earth and the universe and the second story describes how the first woman talked the first man into some bullsh!t scheme that got them both kicked out of the Garden of Eden.

Deep wisdom from an ancient Jewish writer.
That story tells me that god f*cked up. The man could have been stronger and said, "Bitch...the big guy said not to touch that tree." But did he? Nope. So...it takes two to tango. This is not a 100% chicks are bad type of thing.
 
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