Mexico invades Arizona

[pdm]

The US never signed the Mine Ban Treaty.

We didn't? Do we just sort of agree to not use them then?

 

[M1911]

We didn't? Do we just sort of agree to not use them then?

We never made such an agreement. The border between North Korea and South Korea is sown with millions of US made mines and they are a very important part of our defense of South Korea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottawa_Treaty
http://www.icbl.org/treaty/snp

 

[Nickle]

Not only did we not make such an agreement, we reserved the right to use them if we so choose to.

Many folks get the idea that since some of our politicians (Congress) are so against mines, that we must have renounced them. We haven't. The military still trains them, too. Mostly Claymores, but they're still mines. Regular troops don't put normal mines in, Combat Engineers (Sappers) do. We do know how to remove mines, when we need to, but usually just cal EOD to deal with it.

Guess what?

We didn't sign anything saying we won't use Nukes or Chemical weapons, either. We simply said we won't use them FIRST.

 

[Bob P]

Not only did we not make such an agreement, we reserved the right to use them if we so choose to.

Many folks get the idea that since some of our politicians (Congress) are so against mines, that we must have renounced them. We haven't. The military still trains them, too. Mostly Claymores, but they're still mines. Regular troops don't put normal mines in, Combat Engineers (Sappers) do. We do know how to remove mines, when we need to, but usually just cal EOD to deal with it.

Guess what?

We didn't sign anything saying we won't use Nukes or Chemical weapons, either. We simply said we won't use them FIRST.

Actually, IIRC Bush repudiated the doctrin of no 1st use shortly after 911 in a speach that got surprisingly little play. Basically he said we reserve the right to use 'any and all' of our weapons if we believe we're about to be attacked - which was the first time since WWII we've publicly said anything other then retaliation in kind.

 

[Ray-500]

Most of the Mexican military incursions in this country (and there have been a LOT) are due to them acting as guards for the drug mules.

It's ridiculous.

Not sure how accurate the figures are, but I have seen news articles that there have been 200+ such incursions. Regardless of the actual number, this may be more common than we realize.

How high do you think the morale is in the Border Patrol right about now?

 

[dwarven1]

How high do you think the morale is in the Border Patrol right about now?

I'd guess somewhat lower than a snake's ass in a swamp.

 

[M1911]

I'd guess somewhat lower than a snake's ass in a swamp.

Couldn't be. Not with situations like this happening: http://www.newswithviews.com/Corsi/jerome1.htm

 

[Ray-500]

I'd guess somewhat lower than a snake's ass in a swamp.

Could be....what comes to mind is lower than a piece of whale shit on the bottom of the ocean.

 

[Dench]

Not only did we not make such an agreement, we reserved the right to use them if we so choose to.

-“The United States has committed to eliminate persistent landmines of all types from its arsenal..." (no more "dumb" mines)

-"The use of non-self-destructing antipersonnel mines is permissible until 2010, but only in Korea"

-"The use of non-self-destructing antivehicle mines will be allowed globally until 2010, but only after presidential authorization. The use of low metal content (non-detectable) non-self-destructing landmines was banned on 3 January 2005."

-"The last recorded use of antipersonnel mines by the United States was in the first Gulf War in 1991"

http://www.icbl.org/lm/2006/us.html

Landmines will never ever, be used on the mexican boarder unless there is some sort of unlikly threat of an massive invasion from the south.
thankfully, the US has not used AP mines since 1991.

land mines suck just about as much as UXO. take it from a combat engineer whos been around some minefields.

dumb mines are the way of the dinosaur in the US, and for good reason. you try to get those S.O.B.s out at the end of the conflict.


(map of parts of the world with mines and UXO http://www.icbl.org/lm/2007/maps/resources/Contam2007_eng_V7.jpg , we dont need to color the US in blue.)

 

[Nickle]

Dumb mines are dead. Claymores (which can be rigged to not need a human trigger) and AP mines via MLRS aren't. The MLRS mines self destruct after a while.

I'll concede the error on dumb mines, but not fully concede anything on a global agreement. Current policy does not a treaty make.

The US stockpiles 10.4 million antipersonnel mines and 7.5 million antivehicle mines, the third largest landmine stockpile in the world after China and Russia. The stockpile has 2.8 million non-self-destructing landmines, including 1.16 million M14 and M16 antipersonnel mines and about 403,000 Claymore mines.[33] Mixed systems that contain both self-destructing antipersonnel and antivehicle mines constitute 11 percent of the overall stockpile

 

[Ray-500]

Actually, IIRC Bush repudiated the doctrin of no 1st use shortly after 911 in a speach that got surprisingly little play. Basically he said we reserve the right to use 'any and all' of our weapons if we believe we're about to be attacked - which was the first time since WWII we've publicly said anything other then retaliation in kind.

Those may have been the words, but I just can't trust anything Bush II says when it comes to border control. I honestly believe he is an advocate of open borders...no matter the consequences.

 

[mark056]

Most of the Mexican military incursions in this country (and there have been a LOT) are due to them acting as guards for the drug mules.

It's ridiculous.

+1 I agree and you are probably right regarding this incident. I would have to say, though, growing up along the border in Arizona and speaking from personal experience, that sometimes it is difficult to figure out which country you are in. I suppose it has all changed with the advent of GPS units, but unless you have good navigational devices, it can be a challenge. A barbed wire fence cannot in and of itself can be construed as a reliable marker as a line of demarcation for an international border out there.

In this instance, however, and in most recent incidents Law Dawg has this right IMO.

Mark L.