Medical Marijuana and Lawful Gun Ownership

[willbdavis]

So, a friend of mine is going to apply for a Massachusetts Medical Marijuana card. He currently has an LTC-A and is a sport shooter. Mostly he likes busting clays, but I digress.

He called me asking what the implications would be. I told him to call a firearms attorney.

However, as far as I know this is new legal territory. Regardless of Massachusetts laws regarding medical marijuana, pot is still federally illegal, and the feds don't recognize medical marijuana.

• Would this disqualify him for a Massachusetts firearms license?
• Wouldn't oblige him to answer "yes" on question "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?" when buying a firearm?

 

[bch1988]

I would say have him look up the definition of addiction from a legal standpoint and if his use *even legally matches that amount then he would have to answer yes. IANAL. But I feel like the medical Mary Jane situation will become a headache for lawful gun use in ma.

 

[TheCrowing]

Federally it's illegal unfortunately. So wether or not he is addicted to said substance (that contains absolutely no addictive qualities whatsoever). He would still need to answer yes as he is "an unlawful user of" said medicine.

 

[WatchCityCPA]

...

• Wouldn't oblige him to answer "yes" on question "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?" when buying a firearm?

The question is about ILLEGAL use or addiction.

IANAL, but it seems to hinge on whether legal cannabis use with a prescription counts as addiction.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

It will boil down to what the CLEO's definition of suitability is.

Bob

 

[TheCrowing]

Google this and you will see the result of people in other states that legalized for medical use all have had their LTCs confiscated. You can still keep your license and get hammered every night though. Figure that one out...

 

[BenDover]

Are you an unlawful user of<----- OR addicted to, marijuana, OR any depressant, stimulant, OR narcotic drug, OR any other controlled substance?

Its legal here....no laws being broken.

Thats the way I read it....which does not matter to anyone I guess. Contact a lawyer.

 

[ochmude]

The question is about ILLEGAL use or addiction.

IANAL, but it seems to hinge on whether legal cannabis use with a prescription counts as addiction.

The question is on a federal form. Any use is illegal from a federal perspective.

 

[Jason Flare]

The question is about ILLEGAL use or addiction.

IANAL, but it seems to hinge on whether legal cannabis use with a prescription counts as addiction.

Marijuana is illegal under federal law. He would be an, "unlawful user." My feeling is that the gun control advocates are seeing the states' marijuana laws are a great way to declare lawful gun owners unsuitable.

 

[GunGrey]

Get an fid card that way he doesn't have to deal with suitability. Get it before he has the MJ card.

The real question is about the MJ card is how will they be dispersed ? Will a doctor issue the card? State issue the card? Background check ? Coss reference other databases like ltc and what not ?

 

[Terminator03]

Marijuana is illegal under federal law. He would be an, "unlawful user." My feeling is that the gun control advocates are seeing the states' marijuana laws are a great way to declare lawful gun owners unsuitable.

I agree. This is creating a huge window of opportunity to further restrict the rights of legal gun owners. Inmo, unless there is some legal precedent set to circumvent federal law, then I would say people need to decide whether their priority is getting stoned or owning guns, it's as simple as that unfortunately. As twisted as it is, though, there is nothing preventing you from getting hammered with liquor or other prescriptive meds every day.

 

[ochmude]

Get an fid card that way he doesn't have to deal with suitability. Get it before he has the MJ card.

The real question is about the MJ card is how will they be dispersed ? Will a doctor issue the card? State issue the card? Background check ? Coss reference other databases like ltc and what not ?

It's not just a matter of suitability. If you have a MMJ card, every 4473 that you fill out after receiving that car will essentially be another count of 18 USC 1621. Now realistically, you won't be prosecuted. But if you ever find yourself within the gaze of Sauron's eye, you will have handed them easy convictions.

 

[cekim]

It's not just a matter of suitability. If you have a MMJ card, every 4473 that you fill out after receiving that car will essentially be another count of 18 USC 1621. Now realistically, you won't be prosecuted. But if you ever find yourself within the gaze of Sauron's eye, you will have handed them easy convictions.

Interesting that they've created another Haynes V US challenge here...

 

[Len-2A Training]

Are you an unlawful user of<----- OR addicted to, marijuana, OR any depressant, stimulant, OR narcotic drug, OR any other controlled substance?

Its legal here....no laws being broken.

Thats the way I read it....which does not matter to anyone I guess. Contact a lawyer.

Wrong!!

The question is on a federal form. Any use is illegal from a federal perspective.

Marijuana is illegal under federal law. He would be an, "unlawful user." My feeling is that the gun control advocates are seeing the states' marijuana laws are a great way to declare lawful gun owners unsuitable.

As the above 2 replies . . .

Anyone with a medical marijuana card and answers the 4473 question HONESTLY will be denied on NICS and will not be able to purchase/transfer anything thru a FFL anywhere in the US. Lying on the 4473 can lead to Federal prison time. Choose wisely!

BATFE has come out with a ruling on this and even though something may be "state legal", under the Feds, they see it differently and you will lose your rights to ever own guns and perhaps spend some time in a Club Fed as well if they decide to prosecute aggressively.

 

[inerlogic]

they've said they don't prosecute for 4473s so, toke away!!

 

[rep308]

I have friends in Colorado with the same dilemma. One told me that the Feds are suing the state to get a list of MM card holders with the intent of making them a Prohibited Person. He holds a permit, his wife has a MM card.

Question E on the Fed 4473 form:

e. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to,marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?

That makes it pretty clear to me. MM is federally prohibited, so you are an unlawful user no matter what the state law says.

Please prove me wrong....

 

[StevieP]

If I had to choose, I'd choose to keep my guns legally, and smoke weed (in quantities under 1 oz) on the down low.

Screw "medical" marijuana. States like CO, MA, WA, etc. need to go to Amsterdam to see how it's done correctly. .gov still gets their tax money, and nobody gets hassled.

 

[soloman02]

Wrong!!






As the above 2 replies . . .

Anyone with a medical marijuana card and answers the 4473 question HONESTLY will be denied on NICS and will not be able to purchase/transfer anything thru a FFL anywhere in the US. Lying on the 4473 can lead to Federal prison time. Choose wisely!

BATFE has come out with a ruling on this and even though something may be "state legal", under the Feds, they see it differently and you will lose your rights to ever own guns and perhaps spend some time in a Club Fed as well if they decide to prosecute aggressively.

In the short term, yes. In the long term, no. Fifth Amendment actually protects you and allows you to answer no on the 4473.

Haynes v. United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, in order for this to work, someone will have to be prosecuted for answering no on the form and take it through the courts.

 

[ochmude]

BTW, this is one big reason why I'm strongly against legalizing marijuana for medical purposes. Full legalization means no cards to leave a paper trail. Paper trails are how you get federally f***ed.

 

[soloman02]

BTW, this is one big reason why I'm strongly against legalizing marijuana for medical purposes. Full legalization means no cards to leave a paper trail. Paper trails are how you get federally f***ed.

Problem is that the MM route is the easiest path to get the voting public in a state to get on board with approving what CO and WA did this past election. Both CO and WA had MM before they went legal.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

Well, since the dealer does the NICS check and that question is not asked during the check and since the 4473 stays with the dealer and if question 11e is checked "yes", any dealer in his right mind will refuse to make a sale. Jack.

 

[cekim]

Problem is that the MM route is the easiest path to get the voting public in a state to get on board with approving what CO and WA did this past election. Both CO and WA had MM before they went legal.

Yes, incrementalism is very effective...

I think we need to end the war on drugs and allow adults to make and pay for their own choices, but this approach is dishonest and ridiculous. [sad2]

 

[soloman02]

Yes, incrementalism is very effective...

I think we need to end the war on drugs and allow adults to make and pay for their own choices, but this approach is dishonest and ridiculous. [sad2]

I should clarify, so far it has been the easiest path. Hopefully we are beginning to see a change such that we don't need to go MM first before legalization.

 

[terraformer]

The question is on a federal form. Any use is illegal from a federal perspective.

This. Tell him to contact an attorney who knows this and the answer will be not to do it.

 

[45collector]

Absurd. Drink all you want as long as you're not putting anyone else in harm's way: no problem. Smoke Marijuana and you risk having your 2A rights stripped from you.

 

[cekim]

I should clarify, so far it has been the easiest path. Hopefully we are beginning to see a change such that we don't need to go MM first before legalization.

Oh, I know it works and I know I/we shoot myself/ourselves in the foot by not using trick in Alinsky's book, but it is just irritating that the electorate plays willful victim to this charade...

- - - Updated - - -

Absurd. Drink all you want as long as you're not putting anyone else in harm's way: no problem. Smoke Marijuana and you risk having your 2A rights stripped from you.

See the Kokesh thread - Get arrested while protesting 1A, you get your 1A rights back. Get arrested while protesting 2A, PP forever.

 

[ochmude]

See the Kokesh thread - Get arrested while protesting 1A, you get your 1A rights back. Get arrested while protesting 2A, PP forever.

Ain't no standard like a double standard.

 

[cekim]

Ain't no standard like a double standard.

It's twice as good since its a DOUBLE standard right?

 

[atilla]

Full legalization means no cards to leave a paper trail. Paper trails are how you get federally f***ed.

full legalization or GTFO.

what it comes down to is that the 4473 is a federal form, pot is federally illegal. if you answer anything other than yes on that question you are lying on the 4473.

It's twice as good since its a DOUBLE standard right?

yessss.

 

[rep308]

Absurd. Drink all you want as long as you're not putting anyone else in harm's way: no problem. Smoke Marijuana and you risk having your 2A rights stripped from you.

As I explain to my kids, it might not make sense but that's the law. There was a house party in town where the underage booze drinking kids were arrested, while the pot smoking kids were given a $100 fine and let go