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Media Spin on Schools that Teach Combat Skills to Mere Civilians!

Len-2A Training

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Biased article focused on what they perceive is inappropriate training of self-defense tactics to "mere civilians"! Note that they point out that they "found" such a training school in NH . . . I'll bet that was our own Jim Conway's NEShooters.com programs. [smile]

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/27/AR2006052700854.html


Schools Teach Combat Skills to Civilians
Lack of Regulation Of Private Training Troubles Some
By David A. Fahrenthold
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, May 28, 2006; A03

MONTROSE, Colo. -- Marcus Klintmalm's two victims lay sprawled on the ground, their weapons released by hands gone limp. Spent cartridge casings, his and theirs, were everywhere -- testimony to two gunfights.

The shooting had stopped. It was time to debrief.

"Where did you hit him?" an instructor asked Klintmalm, referring to one of the assailants. The man was standing now, with a mark of orange wax from Klintmalm's "bullet" on his pants.

"In the hip," Klintmalm said.

If the fight had been real, that might not have been good enough, the instructor said. "He may not be dead."

Such are the hard-edged lessons taught here at Valhalla Training Center, where students learn the basics of urban shootouts in a mock downtown. Special Forces soldiers train here for combat in Iraq, but Klintmalm is not a soldier: He is a 23-year-old aspiring business-school student from Dallas, who gave his current occupation as "ski bumming."

Valhalla is part of a lightly regulated industry thriving in a time of war overseas and terrorism fears at home. Around the country, at least 16 privately run schools teach civilian students skills usually associated with SWAT teams or military combat -- close-in gunfighting, assault-rifle tactics, sniper shooting.

The reasons for the schools' growth include the U.S. military's increasing openness to privately run training, a rise in public demand for personal-defense skills and a new marketing strategy from some schools, which now sell tactical shooting as weekend recreation. Along with this growth have come concerns, voiced by academic observers and even some in the business, about the leeway afforded these schools to choose who and what they teach.

"You're talking about an entirely new industry that has a patchwork-quilt quality. . . . Some parts are regulated, and some parts are entirely unregulated," said Peter W. Singer, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. He said that such a system would be "one thing if we're talking about clown schools," but "it's different when we're talking about private military schools."

The schools, however, say that they strive to screen out clients who might misuse their training.

"They don't show up for class and have a gun in their hand until they've had a criminal background check," said Timothy Beckman, director of the training arm of the High Desert Special Operations Center in Nevada. "You don't get in the door if you don't have good paper."

A survey by The Washington Post of schools that advertise on the Internet and in gun magazines located 19 that offer advanced instruction in the skills of combat, with two more such centers planned in New Hampshire and Oklahoma. Of these, only three said that they limited the teaching of advanced skills to military and police clients.

One thing shared across the industry was a sense that -- these days more than ever -- people want what they are selling.

"Our business has increased since September 11th, period. People realize since September 11th that they need to be more prepared," said Jane Anne Hulen, marketing director of Gunsite Academy, a school in the Arizona desert that is one of the industry's heavyweights. She said Gunsite's business, which now involves about 1,000 students per year, has at least doubled since the 2001 terrorist attacks.

One engine of the industry's rapid growth is the wartime U.S. military. Private weapons schools now teach thousands of Navy sailors to defend their ships from terrorist attacks, and they put Special Forces soldiers through simulated combat in Middle East villages.

But these days, the schools have an equally big business in teaching civilians. With customers looking for defensive skills or recreation, the industry buzzword is the same one that puts the T in "SWAT."

"This is not a shooting school. It's a school for tactics," meaning the total set of skills useful in actual gunfighting, said Rob Pincus, director of shooting operations at Valhalla.

At many schools, the offerings include "tactical" approaches to personal defense, in which students learn to take on burglars and other assailants in "shoothouses" designed to mimic real life. At Valhalla, there is a fake house, convenience store and barroom where students encounter gun-clutching dummies or live instructors playing armed bad guys . The courses are often intended for people who have permits to carry concealed handguns.

During a recent "Combat Focus Shooting" class, instructor Brad Schuppan sent each student into the shoothouse's fake downtown with a special training handgun -- whose wax-tipped plastic bullets are designed to leave a mark but not injure -- and a set of terse instructions. "Private citizen. Concealed carry. Out and about," he told them, meaning: Don't do anything you wouldn't do in real life.

Not everybody listened. A few steps inside the door, student Mark Youngren drew his gun on the first person he saw, who turned out to be an instructor playing an unarmed bystander.

"Why have you got your gun out?" Schuppan yelled.

Youngren was sheepish under his helmet. "Just habit, I guess," he said, and he reholstered.

Some gun instructors have questioned whether such classes make civilian students such as Youngren too aggressive with their guns in real life. But the schools say they train students to avoid confrontations if possible. They argue that a well-trained civilian should be less dangerous than an untrained one with the same gun.

"We're the solution. People have guns. They're always going to have guns," said Heidi Smith, an owner and instructor at Thunder Ranch in Lakeview, Ore.

But many schools also provide civilians with training that would seem to have few, if any, applications in everyday life.

Thunder Ranch, for instance, offers a class in which two-person teams learn to move and shoot in confined spaces and provide covering fire for each other. One recent class included eight officers from the Los Angeles Police Department and a husband-and-wife pair of junior high school teachers from California, Smith said.

At least seven of the 16 schools teach civilians the use of military-style assault weapons. Some schools say they teach only target shooting using these guns, but at Front Sight Firearms Training Institute outside Las Vegas, there are classes in both the M-16 rifle and the Uzi submachine gun that include tactical simulations and lessons in how to use the guns in "full auto" mode.

At least six of the schools teach civilians how to fire a rifle accurately over long distances. Some focus on hunting or target-shooting skills only.

But not all do: West Virginia's Storm Mountain Training Center offers a "Sniper I" course that, along with shooting, includes the construction of "ghillie suits" like those worn by military snipers to camouflage their positions. "Sniper III" includes training in "sniper mission planning" and the chance to fire live shots as part of simulated tactical missions, according to the school's Web site.

Storm Mountain accepts U.S. citizens who pass a criminal background check and a physical fitness test, Rod Ryan, the school's vice president of operations, said in an e-mail message. At Front Sight, students must pass a criminal background check, sign a "Statement of No Criminal Record, Mental Illness, or Substance Abuse" and provide a character witness who has known them for at least five years, said the school's founder and director, Ignatius Piazza.

Although some schools have even stricter standards, limiting their training to executive bodyguards or security contractors headed for Iraq or Afghanistan, the most common approach seems to be a combination of background checks and character witnesses.

One voice absent from the debate is the federal government's. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which licenses gun dealers, has no similar monitoring for weapons trainers. State-level oversight is also largely absent, school officials said.

The self-regulating system has broken down in the past. In 1993, a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service officer who offered weapons and survival training in rural Pennsylvania taught a group of men from New York how to fire assault rifles and stage mock assaults on a nearby power substation. The men were later found to have been affiliated with the terrorist group that bombed the World Trade Center that year.

[end of Part 1, Part 2 is next Reply]
 
Part 2 of Article

[Part 2 of article, due to forum post limitations]

Some anti-violence activists and even a few weapons-school officials say that somebody -- a government agency or an industry association -- ought to set out rules for acceptable training and students.

"I don't think this should be taught to just anybody off the street," said Richard Weaver of ArmorGroup International PLC, which has camps in Virginia and Texas.

But no such limitations seem to be on the horizon. Instead, many schools are seeking to expand their civilian clientele by fully embracing the idea of gunfighting as entertainment. The Valhalla Training Center, for instance, already shares space with the Valhalla Shooting Club, which allows clients to live out James Bond-style fantasies such as taking down assailants in an airplane cabin or shooting their way out of a crowded subway station.

Later this year, a gun trainer in Oklahoma plans to create an $11 million "Tulsa Adventure Center" that will combine a climbing wall and a scuba pool with an indoor shoothouse. Jack Randal, the man behind the center, said he thinks his industry is ripe for the kind of transition into big-box prominence that the fishing-tackle industry achieved a few years ago.

"We're taking the mom-and-pop bait shop," Randal said, "and we're turning it into the Bass Pro Shop."
© 2006 The Washington Post Company
 
Regulation? Gimme a frigging break! Better regulate all the books and videos that teach this stuff too.

But many schools also provide civilians with training that would seem to have few, if any, applications in everyday life.
I have to go calm down before I get banned....
 
Some of the quotes in favor of regulation sound suspiciously like the store-front FFL's pushing for a crack down on their low-overhead ("kitchen table") competition. Why would anyone thing that gun people are less willing to screw their fellows for a quick buck than any other group, particularly if they can get the government to to all the heavy lifting?

Ken
 
A few months ago, Michael DeBethencourt was telling me that the Mass Dept of Education had put a stop to his teaching courses in MA until they could "regulate" his curriculum, license him, and tax him. I didn't ask for details, but it seems (my interpretation only) that this may have had something to do with his teaching at the S&W Academy.

At any rate in a few more months he'll be throwing his shackles off permanently from the Commieweatlh of Mass (aka PRM), as he plans on moving lock stock and barrel into NH (land of the free).
 
Having worked with DOE for a number of years, I suspect the problem was pretty much avoidable. Anything that's called a "school" in Massachusetts falls under the regulatory control of either the Board of Higher Education (my old job, dealing with all colleges & universities) or DOE (all other schools, including K-12 and trade and specialized schools). I'd bet that if he didn't call it "Northeast Tactical Schools" he wouldn't have had any problem.

Ken
 
Schools Teach Combat Skills to Civilians

I am sure that thje NH reference to training had nothing to do with neshooters.com. What they were alluding to was a 1,100 acres facility that is planned for a site is Groton, NH. There have been a number of articles in the NH papers about this "outrage". Oh well, life goes on and the BS keeps coming.
 
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My email to the author and his response

Mr. Conway--

Thanks so much for reading my story on weapons-training schools and taking the time to write me about it. After researching this topic for my story, I think a lot of people feel exactly the way you do--that more education and training is always a good thing when it comes to firearms.

Yours,

David Fahrenthold
Washington Post



-----"James Conway" <[email protected]> wrote: -----

To: <[email protected]>
From: "James Conway" <[email protected]>
Date: 05/30/2006 03:46PM
Subject: Schools Teach Combat Skills to Civilians


I read your article entitled, "Schools Teach Combat Skills to Civilians"
with great interest. Like Ken Siverts who also wrote you, I have had a lot
of training at schools like Gunsite and Front Sight. Additionally I have
trained with Randy Cain, Jim Crews, Gabe Suarez and Jeff Gonzales. I am
also a NRA Certified Handgun Trainer, Certified by The Massachusetts State
Police to teach handgun safety and a staff Instructor at Suarez
International. In my eyes there are several points that you could have
covered more completely.
There is surely a large growth in the attendance in shooting schools. You
mentioned that Gunsite grew by about 100%. What you either did not mention
or were not aware of is that most of the schools allow our servicemen and
women who are going over to the sandbox to attend either free or at greatly
reduced fees. It is my understanding these servicemen and women amount to a
great deal of the industry's growth.
You seem to feel the a normal citizen should not have any real firearms
training. You go on to say that they do not need any advanced training. I
disagree. The only training that normal citizens normally get is a 10 hour
NRA course that is focused mostly on safety with about 2 or three hours of
actual shooting, prior to applying for a concealed carry permit. If a
person needed a firearm in a life threatening situation, this level of
training simply would not make the grade, unless they were very lucky. A
four day beginners course at any of the major shooting schools will provide
the basic skills necessary to survive and to act responsibly. These same 4
day courses provide a level of training that exceeds many of the police
training programs.
You also mentioned shooting simulations, that allow a student to learn what
to do in a life threatening situations. Yes, the students make mistakes.
If the student is smart they will not repeat these mistakes and are better
prepared to survive


Jim Conway
Neshooters
 
Nice letter Jim and an expected crappy response from the article's author.
You should have thrown in that "civilians" who take these courses, after successful completion are more competent/proficient than many LEO's.
 
But many schools also provide civilians with training that would seem to have few, if any, applications in everyday life.

Thunder Ranch, for instance, offers a class in which two-person teams learn to move and shoot in confined spaces and provide covering fire for each other. One recent class included eight officers from the Los Angeles Police Department and a husband-and-wife pair of junior high school teachers from California, Smith said.
Funny... isn't the media only too happy to play up school shootings in loving, gory detail? [rolleyes]
 
training schools

JonJ
In my original letter I did include a comment that the students in a four day training course could, in most cases, easily pass a police qualification shooting test. I took it out in the final draft because it was too agrumentative and I doubted that he would or could believe it. Remember that the Police are trained professionals.
 
I love this BS:
At least six of the schools teach civilians how to fire a rifle accurately over long distances. Some focus on hunting or target-shooting skills only.

But not all do: West Virginia's Storm Mountain Training Center offers a "Sniper I" course that, along with shooting, includes the construction of "ghillie suits" like those worn by military snipers to camouflage their positions. "Sniper III" includes training in "sniper mission planning" and the chance to fire live shots as part of simulated tactical missions, according to the school's Web site.
Oh wow. I didn't know making a ghillie was some sort of top secret info. Too bad you can buy one already made from Cabelas...... Oh wait, some turkey hunters already do that.

And now civilians can learns "sniper mission planning"..... You mean learning to read topos, use compasses, and travel discreetly across country? My, my, why would mere peasants need to know how to do any of that?

And I love the "live" shot at the end of a simulated "sniper mission". To us the meaning of a live shot is obvious. But some Boston suburbia soccer mom will imagine an evil "sniper" shooting a chained live animal as the "target" or some such nonsense. Never mind that is exactly what many hunters, particularly out west, do: stalk their prey and kill them from a couple of hundred yards with a single shot (except for th chained part..).

Washington Post: bird cage and litter box liner.
 
consume.jpg


independent though is forbidden..
work, obey, reproduce....

following their train of thought, I assume that they also believe that soldiers returning to civilian life from active duty pose a safety risk to society as well? trained killers amongst us!

as was said above...kitty litter box lining..
 
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Along with this growth have come concerns, voiced by academic observers and even some in the business, about the leeway afforded these schools to choose who and what they teach.

(2) things wrong with this quote:

1) "academic observers" = "over educated, elitist, uber liberal, therefore we should pay particular attention to what he has to say"

2) "even some in business" = "I don't actually give credence to what the underclass has to say, but since i found one that agrees with me, I note it."

I hate the liberal media mindset...

Matt
 
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