May be time to Lawyer up

That's one step further. Remember, they are looking for a reason NOT to issue, so make sure you don't come across as Zimmerman, but make it clear that you will only use your firearm as a last resort if you fear your life is in danger. You should bring a voice recorder and tell them that you would like to record the interview to make sure there are no misunderstandings later regarding what was said.
The statutory requirements are pretty basic for a town permit and the Chief is Shall issue if you meet all the requirements. If he doesn't issue, then he needs to give you the reasons why.
Justice Fortunato (Archer vs. MacGarry RI Superior Court2002-5593, pg 17):
if the person is a suitable person andmeets the other criteria that I just quoted from the statute11-47-11), at that point there is no discretion on the part of thelicensing authority. According to the legislature at that point thepermit shall issue”

Chief Justice Williams also said that if the applicant has met the conditions of the statute, the licensing authority has no discretion to withhold the license. RI Supreme Court Mosby vs. Devine 2001-161 Appeal, pg 23.

The law is on your side (assuming you meet all other requirements and can legally possess firearms)!

Good luck, and please keep us posted.
 
Update** I have finally decided on a lawyer. If denied i will be represented by Mr. Fabisch. He is a great guy and EXTREMLY reasonably priced. He has a passion for second amendment issues. If anyone else wants to use him as a recourse please PM me and i will send his contact information.

Other development: PD called off interview, it was rescheduled to May 1'st.
 
Update** I have finally decided on a lawyer. If denied i will be represented by Mr. Fabisch. He is a great guy and EXTREMLY reasonably priced. He has a passion for second amendment issues. If anyone else wants to use him as a recourse please PM me and i will send his contact information.

Other development: PD called off interview, it was rescheduled to May 1'st.
The problem may be getting an actual denial letter. The chiefs have discovered if they ignore and delay, that's even better than sending a denial that can be contested. They can delay as long as they want, since there is no statutory time limit. I'm not sure if there is any case law, but you will probably find out from Fabisch.
 
So i had my "interview". Did not go well. They asked why I NEEDED a permit; I informed them that there is no NEED in a town permit just reasonable fear of bodily harm. I explained that the towns are shall issue and all they can say is I am not "suitable". Yet still used the reason of “avid gun collector” because I do own multiple firearms and because the RI Supreme Court deemed that was good enough reason. In short I expect a denial letter within the next two weeks and suing within the month :).
 
So i had my "interview". Did not go well. They asked why I NEEDED a permit; I informed them that there is no NEED in a town permit just reasonable fear of bodily harm or any other proper reason. I explained that the towns are shall issue and all they can say is I am not "suitable". Yet still used the reason of “avid gun collector” because I do own multiple firearms and because the RI Supreme Court deemed that was good enough reason. In short I expect a denial letter within the next two weeks and suing within the month :).

See above, the second part after the "or" kind of negates the first part. IMHO.

I'll be interested to see how your case develops. If they deny you for the reasons you describe, I don't think they have much of a case. Thanks for keeping us in the loop!
 
I am researching concealed carry for my brother who is moving to RI from Maine and came across this post. I am a NH resident and reading how much the local government can infringe upon your rights with no recourse makes me sick. Recently I was given a hard time on a concealed carry renewal for a state of NH permit I already had, because I was living in a different town with a different police chief who holds too much power and authority. Don't let them get away with this injustice; I don’t want NH to end up like RI[wink].
 
I am researching concealed carry for my brother who is moving to RI from Maine and came across this post. I am a NH resident and reading how much the local government can infringe upon your rights with no recourse makes me sick. Recently I was given a hard time on a concealed carry renewal for a state of NH permit I already had, because I was living in a different town with a different police chief who holds too much power and authority. Don't let them get away with this injustice; I don’t want NH to end up like RI[wink].

This isn't the first time somebody from the "Live Free or Die" crowd has said they got hassled when they went to get a NH License. It appears that NH is perceived as shall issue, but technically is may issue and some of the COPs there are beginning to think like they are in Mass. A disturbing trend.
 
This isn't the first time somebody from the "Live Free or Die" crowd has said they got hassled when they went to get a NH License. It appears that NH is perceived as shall issue, but technically is may issue and some of the COPs there are beginning to think like they are in Mass. A disturbing trend.

That is because those COPs are Mass transplants. NH would be just fine if we were allowed to protect our southern border. Just stay in Mass and leave your BS there.
 
I guess this is a question to the OP.
I've been following this thread, and still can't help to ask myself, why? I understand the difference between "may" and "shall", but If the need is there, then I think that would've been the road to take. Especially when you know your at odds.
On the other hand, I also believe the law is the law and the COP should abide. But there's always that suitability thing that seems to leave a team with an empty net...so to speak.

Another question that arises is (and has probably been asked before)... Is a denial the same as a denial > suit > win. What do you answer on that first question of the next application you fill out? "have you ever" been denied.

No offense intended, just curious.


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I guess this is a question to the OP.
I've been following this thread, and still can't help to ask myself, why? I understand the difference between "may" and "shall", but If the need is there, then I think that would've been the road to take. Especially when you know your at odds.
On the other hand, I also believe the law is the law and the COP should abide. But there's always that suitability thing that seems to leave a team with an empty net...so to speak.

Another question that arises is (and has probably been asked before)... Is a denial the same as a denial > suit > win. What do you answer on that first question of the next application you fill out? "have you ever" been denied.

No offense intended, just curious.


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No, a denial is does not necessarily mean that you will win in court, and surprisingly no Chief (to my knowledge) has been used over a denial so there is no case law on this, yet.
The Chief has some discretion when deciding whether to issue a permit or not. However, he can NOT (in my opinion) say that you do not have a proper reason (a Chief SHALL ISSUE) and not define what he considers a proper reason. The statute (RIGL 11-47-11) has very few requirements for an applicant to be licensed, but unfortunately this does not mean that a CLEO will issue if you meet all the requirements. There are also big differences between the Chiefs, some issue to almost everyone that meets the requirements regardless of reasons while others will not issue to anyone. There is also a statement of "suitability" that some Chiefs use as an excuse to demand that you take a psychological evaluation at the University of Rhode Island to determine if you are suitable... By the way, I contacted the Legal Counselor at URI, and he said the test did not even exists... I believe that "suitable" is defined in RIGL 11-47-6 and the RI Courts have hinted the same in a civil suit a few years ago.
If someone who met all the statutory requirements to be licensed, but who were still denied by the Chief, wanted to sue over a denial I would say his/her chances to win were pretty good. However, lawsuits cost money (Chiefs know this), and it can be expensive to sue. I would be willing to contribute to a suit over a denial for the right applicant to establish case law, and hopefully someone else also will :)
 
That is it exactly; i have a spotless record and no logical reason to be denied. Whenor IF* I am denied I want to sue to establish case law. I know a lot of people who are scared to apply, I’m hoping once we get some case law on the subject that will change and more people will apply and get their CCW's. And the reason i did not go for the AG permit is that he can LEGALLY deny me and I would have no legal recourse because he is "may issue" yet since chiefs are "shall issue" I chose to go that route. As for my reasons we have already discussed "need" early in this thread. I simply decided that this would be a very good way to spend my tax return :).

Also the police misconceptions on the law have to be changed, Ie. I have been shown a denial letter where the chief of police sights THE WRONG LAW, for denying the applicant, this is borderline offensive in my view that 1. He denies the applicant for no reason/ refuse to site a reason directly against the Mosby deccesion 2. He contorted the law to suit his viewpoint.

Update: They cashed my check on the 9th so I am assuming I will hear from them soon.
 
I assume the check was $100 and not $40 that they are supposed to charge when you pick up the application per RIGL 11-47-12.
I am looking forward to hearing the outcome of this.
 
DENIED! as of today I have offically been denied my shall issue permit. Trying to contact lawyer. I will keep you updated!
 
The "shall issue" for towns in RIGL 11-47-11 is a bit equivocal:

(a) The licensing authorities of any city or town shall, ... if it appears that the applicant has good reason to fear an injury to his or her person or property or has any other proper reason for carrying a pistol or revolver, and that he or she is a suitable person to be so licensed.

I am not aware that an objective standard for "proper reason" exists in either case law or statutory law. If anyone knows differently, please enlighten me!

The AG can legally deny even if you can show "proper reason".

After a year long wrestling match with Providence I threw in the towel, as I'm moving to Florida (where I'm already licensed) in a couple of weeks.
 
The standard was touched on in the mosby case. Even though he lost the suit in the judges dissertation he set a low standard (gun collector) correct me if im wrong, and this is for a town not the ag office

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The standard was touched on in the mosby case. Even though he lost the suit in the judges dissertation he set a low standard (gun collector) correct me if im wrong, and this is for a town not the ag office

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That is essentially correct, in fact this was specifically referring to Providence. As you have determined, there is a difference in the language between the town permit under 11-47-11, which is "any other proper reason", and the AG permit under 11-47-18, which is a "proper showing of need". The Mosby v. Devine case set a very low standard for what a proper reason is.

If you haven't done so already, you may want to PM the NES user newportri. He may have some other ideas to help as well.

Good luck, and let us know how you make out. Sorry for the hassle.

ETA: if you don't mind sharing, what was the reason they gave you for the denial?
 
It says I feel (the cheif) that you do not meet the criteria outlined in 11 - 47 - 11 of the general laws of rhode island as amended, as well as bristol police departments guidelines.

So in short he thinks I am unworthy

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I have to say that I've been reading this and following your case and I just want to mention how impressed I am that you are seeing this through and are unrelenting in getting your LTC. I give you a lot of credit. Keep it up. A lot of people could take a good lesson from you on how to never give up.
 
Next week my lawyer will be filing with the state supreme court. We will see where it goes from there.

On a aside i have also filed for my C&R ffl.

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That's great news. I think you have a great case and lets hope the outcome will good!
I give you a lot of credit for going through with this case since it's not been done in RI yet, at least not to my knowledge.
 
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