We get packs of 20-30 every night, so it is hard to ignore.
Um, the Internet is available to everyone. Get with the program. ;-)
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MassWildlife proposes regulations to ban predator contests and prohibit wanton waste
- Thread starter Coyote33
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We get packs of 20-30 every night, so it is hard to ignore.
Um, the Internet is available to everyone. Get with the program. ;-)
Why do you scoff? Im pretty sure I jumped one last fall when pushing through briars and milkweeds. It’s possible it was a grey partridge. How difficult it is for an intelligent man to humble himself.Grouse? In mass?
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
That's an ultra rare occurrence in mass.....play the lottery.....you were that lucky.
My point i was making is mass shouldn't even have a damn grouse season they are so rare....but the biologists for some reason in mass don't seem to care.
Habitat preference for that species of galliform is early successional....Aspen .....birch......cherry. of which mass has very little anymore because clear cutting timber is so frowned upon.
My forestry degree kind of helps me out a bit in my knowledge of habitat management.
HorizontalHunter
NES Member
We could have great grouse hunting if DFW cared enough to create the habitat. The same applies to pheasant.
Pheasant, and grouse, do just fine in the Dakotas with their much harsher winters. Why???? Because their Fish and Game department ACTIVELY manages the resource through forest land management and CRP.
The difference is the hunting tradition and their the Fish and Game Department. Their hunters would never allow it.
As an aside, I will say that I have seen more dead grouse on 91 in the Hadley area than I have in years so the population is on an upswing.
Bob
There were a few timber management plans in central and western mass in 2004 timeframe.......those lots have now become that early successional habitat and in small tracts there are some grouse again. Just not enough
Mass let's the soccer mom's and yuppies opinions rule the management plans. They think clear cut equal bad......and that's not true.
Grouse? In mass?
I got one as a teen. I see them most every year when I'm out in their territory. Not sure why so funny.
You are saying the biologists are SO RIGHT when it comes to deer, but SO WRONG when it comes to grouse. How can they be so confused? Or are you?
40 years ago ruffled grouse were more common than pigeons. You couldn't walk in the woods without bumping one. Now, hearing one drum is a rare occurrence. I've crossed paths with one behind my house, but I let him be.
That's EXACTLY what I'm saying. They pay attention to deer management......but not grouse. That's my educated.....and experienced.....opinion. BS forestry UMass Amherst 1996 with a minor in biology. Masters in logistics and trans 2015......with 3 masters level courses in wildlife biology......and wildlife management. Plus I hunt.......alot.....and still study and read......alot. I'm definitely NOT confused.
It's quite possible for f and g to get one species management plan right ......and another completely wrong. And the fact that I opine in favor of one and not the other.....means I read........and also spend time in the field.
Cliff notes version of my opinions:
Mass Grouse management bad......to recognize the grouse population is depleted would require f and g to adopt a management plan to improve the population......that plan would have to include clear cutting old growth forest.
Mass Deer management "ok".....well.....with the exception of the western zones needing one buck....and antler restrictions added to beef up that herd a bit.
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And your a good sportsman for letting it be. They are a rare treat to see in the field in mass. One of my favorite species. They utilize a precocial life cycle.....their young hatch almost completely ready to survive on their own. The vast majority of bird species are altricial.......they hatch helpless young that need constant attention. The grouse......hatch and are ready to eat small insects almost immediately. They only stay close to the parents for a little protection.......they feed themselves......or starve.....from the moment they hatch.
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After this thread I’ll reconsider my intentions to hunt one. I’ve felt and heard the drumbeats of spruced grouse in the Whites. One daintily leaded me in the Baldfaces for about 100 feet not less than 10 feet from me which I got on video. A beautiful bird.
In northern New England and especially Maine grouse are plentiful. Maine and NH timber management plans include a fair amount of clear cutting which supports the early successional forest they need. I've hunted grouse in Maine many times. The cuts and landings along logging roads hold plenty of them. Mass just does not have them anymore due to piss poor habitat management....ie......very littl clear cutting. Hunt them in the north woods by all means. Mass just refuses to recognize that the ruffes grouse is almost gone in mass......because to bring them back would require clear cutting old growth forest........and that would trigger the soccer mom's and liberal suburban professionals who are ignorant to the fact that diverse habitat is best.......and think old growth forests support 100% of all species.
Do yourself a favor and Google around a bit for % of mass forest land over time. You'll learn how mass was almost deforested in the 1800s........and see how the supported wildlife species changes as the abandoned farms grew from early successional to successional to old growth over the years. Why does mass have a plethora of deer and turkey now? Because old growth forest with small sections of edge habitat are preferred for both species!
Studying the history of wildlife management and habitat evolution over time is interesting......and will help your hunt.
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HorizontalHunter
NES Member
And insurance companies when it comes to the desired deer per sq mile.
LOL
There a lot of competing political interests when it comes to managing the resource. Hunters are last on the list.
If you really want to see how the state manages the deer population just look at the history of the deer herd (mis)-management at Quabbin.
Quabbin was created in 1936.
Deer hunting opened 1991-2 because the deer herd had grown so large that they had eaten a everything they could reach standing on their hind legs. The estimated population was 20-50 dpsm. They were under weight and malnourished. I was there.
https://www.nrs.fs.fed.us/pubs/gtr/gtr_ne302/gtr_ne302_257.pdf
2018 deer hunting greatly reduced as the deer population fell to an optimistic 1-2 DPSM and hunters stopped coming to hunt.
The last year they have figures for is 2017. 737 hunters over 2 days killed 50 deer.
https://www.mass.gov/files/documents/2018/09/04/2017quabbindeerhuntreport.pdf
Keep in mind that these are all estimated numbers. There is no actual counting of deer with a FLIR like Connecticut does. Quabbin does do pellet count transects and estimated the population from that.
Bob
HorizontalHunter
NES Member
I was at UMass Amherst when that hunt opened up in 91-92. The earthy crunchiest went nuts protesting it. I knew a few folks that were interns In soil science that helped with the study of the quabin. Nobody in mass government gave a shit about managing the deer population there....... malnourished deer.......hunters were willing of course to help manage the herd........until the water quality in the reservoir started to suffer because there was no undergrowth left (because the deer ate it) to hold soil.....erosion was entering the reservoir and causing issues with the supply.
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Mass Fakers and Wankers have no care about small game except, Stocked Pheasants. That is where the money is. It is all about license sales. Then you have the Granola Crunchers who do not understand that clear cutting allows new growth hard wood, with that comes the buds that the Grouse, feed on. You are losing the woodcock population as there are less farms under tillage, so the woodcock can not get the worms and grubs they feed on.
So, basically, "upland bird hunting" needs a better lobbying group. There is the National Wild Turkey Federation and Whitetails Unlimited, and Ducks Unlimited for those groups. I think NWTF does a little for upland birds, maybe by association and similarities, but I think their focus is on turkeys. Who supports pheasant, grouse, quail, bobwhites, etc. in Massachusetts? Do they have support elsewhere, that could be brought in?
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There is more to "Small Game" than just birds. Rabbits are losing habitat like crazy. There is the Ruffed Grouse Society, but they are hardly heard from.
Ruffed Grouse Society. We have two active membership groups in MA, and they have done some land management in my area.
Massachusetts
BRIAN HAYS
Paul Schwalbe
47 Bond Rd
Charlton, MA 01507-1301
Home Phone: (508) 726-7253
E-Mail: [email protected]
SOUTH SHORE/BOSTON
Ernie Foster Jr.
Scituate, MA 02066
Home Phone: (617) 620-0999
E-Mail: [email protected]
The first of these two meetings/hearings is tomorrow night in Lenox.
Hunters. NOW IS YOUR CHANCE!!!!!
Please try to attend one of these meetings. We need to keep the pressure on them. I'd like to see Sunday hunting as well as removing the .22LR/shotgun only night hunting restrictions. It would also be nice to see them lengthen the coyote season, and allow buckshot. Finally, it would be nice to request they move the deer season into November. In other words, go to the hearing, talk about the subject of the hearing, and give them an earful that MA hunters want to see some positive, modern changes happening, and that we are paying attention.
FYI, from:
mass.wildlife
Verified
PUBLIC HEARINGS: Give feedback on proposed regulations to prohibit predator hunting contests, prohibit wanton waste of hunted wildlife, and change harvest reporting requirements for fox and coyote.
-Oct. 22: 7 p.m. at Lenox Town Hall (6 Walker Street, Lenox)
-Oct. 29: 7 p.m. at MassWildlife Field Headquarters (1 Rabbit Hill, Westborough)
Written comments will also be accepted for 2 weeks following the hearings.
Details:
mass.gov
MassWildlife proposes regulations to ban predator contests and prohibit wanton waste
Following a review, MassWildlife proposed regulatory changes to prohibit predator hunting…
