The only thing bigger in Texas is the waistline of its residents.... and their egos about how great Texas is.
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Massachusetts>Texas
- Thread starter Ultrarunner
- Start date
SpencerT
NES Member
Notice I put REQUIRED? No ones making you go into the resturdant on the corner that the owner posts a "no guns sign" I'm not saying you should be arrested for violating that rule but I am saying he shouldn't responsible for protecting you or held liable if some crazed dude comes in and shoots the place up and you CHOSE to go there knowing you couldn't be armed.
It's a different story for RMV and courts etc where you DO have to go there and they don't allow you to protect yourself. They should bear the burden of protection in that case
namedpipes
NES Member
The RMV (in Mass) is NOT a Gun Free Zone.
amm5061
NES Member
I would never go to the RMV unarmed. Half of them are in super sketchy areas.
No kidding.
FrugalFannie
NES Member
Let's see...
In TX I can open carry along gun without asking permission. I can carry a handgun to and from and in my vehicle without permission. I can choose to get an LTC and carry concealed or OPEN. I don't need a license to buy, own or possess guns or AMMO or COMPONENTS. I don't need to lock my guns up. I have the right to defend myself and my property which extends to ANY PLACE I AM LEGALLY (i.e a store, a street, etc). I don't have to worry that the local LEO can restrict my rights as all LTCs are issued from the state DPS.
Yes, we actually have to prove we can actually hit our target if we want an LTC. Yes we have binding signage. Yes we can be asked to leave ANY place that doesn't want guns. Is TX free? NO. Is it worse than MA?! No FARKING way!
And as others have pointed out the penalties the OP stated are WRONG.
In TX I can open carry along gun without asking permission. I can carry a handgun to and from and in my vehicle without permission. I can choose to get an LTC and carry concealed or OPEN. I don't need a license to buy, own or possess guns or AMMO or COMPONENTS. I don't need to lock my guns up. I have the right to defend myself and my property which extends to ANY PLACE I AM LEGALLY (i.e a store, a street, etc). I don't have to worry that the local LEO can restrict my rights as all LTCs are issued from the state DPS.
Yes, we actually have to prove we can actually hit our target if we want an LTC. Yes we have binding signage. Yes we can be asked to leave ANY place that doesn't want guns. Is TX free? NO. Is it worse than MA?! No FARKING way!
And as others have pointed out the penalties the OP stated are WRONG.
FrugalFannie
NES Member
you can carry "where you want" if your local LEO deems you "suitable" and doesn't place restrictions on you. We have none of that crap here. In MA if you live in the wrong zipcode your rights can be severely restricted or denied. How's that living in Boston and not being allowed ARs work out for all those people? How's that ERPO law going to affect the next gun owner that gets in a fight with their SO/spouse/etc?
Keep telling yourselves that MA is better than TX. I'll take TX ANY DAY over MA.
FrugalFannie
NES Member
The only signs with the force of law are the 30.06/07 signs. and the 51% sign. Although some places post 51% that are not and if they are not you can carry there. There's even a handy app for checking with the state if a place is 51%. There are signs that confuse people who are newbs here. There are "no gun" signs on all stores that sell alcohol. but they basically say that if you are NOT licensed, you can't carry. I can carry there. The little "home made" no guns allowed signs and signs with a line through a gun etc have no force of law. Hell, we can carry guns into the RMV, city hall, etc and they cannot post against it.
FrugalFannie
NES Member
I open carried at the local "farmers market" last weekend in Carrollton. It's a city. Not an issue. I live in Frisco. Not an issue with open carry.
FrugalFannie
NES Member
How the hell does MA win in the "gun carry" category?! You have no real experience here in MA. Tell you what, you go open carry in Boston and tell me what happens. I'll go carry in Dallas and I can tell you right now - NOTHING HAPPENS.
I lived there for 25 years, and had a carry permit. Been here in MA for around 10 now.
My take:
MA carry permit process was easier. Finding a course to take was more difficult - not as many open ranges to shoot at (many more private clubs). MA requires the NRA class, and I’ve seen very little live fire done in them. TX requires a state specific course that covers shooting and the laws in TX, as well as de-escalation of force and an actual shooting test. It’s longer, but more thorough. Entire process was handled at the state Dept of Public Safety, no local entities involved for approval. State requires that money collected for the CHL program be spent only on costs associated with the licensing program - after the first few years, they found they had a surplus, and extended the expiration on the permits a few years as a result.
Carrying is less stressful in TX - if you reach for something and someone sees a pistol in a holster in your waistband in TX, nobody is going to flip out and call the police. In MA? Even here in western MA, it’s a concern. 30.06/07 signs were rare in TX in my experience. Bars had the red signs for 51%, but they often weren’t visible until you were in the bar, at which point it was already illegal to be carrying. Not sure if it was actually enforced, but I never heard of any issues with it. Saw people openly carrying in downtown Ft. Worth and Dallas before OC was on the books and it was never a big deal. Some of the more liberal areas (Austin, suburbs, etc) might be less-tolerant of it, but it’s still nothing like MA.
Cops in TX are generally very supportive of 2A rights - if someone hands them a CHL with their license during a stop, they know immediately they aren’t dealing with a felon or someone likely to cause trouble. Being asked to disarm during a traffic stop was very rare - it’d almost be an insult there. Only way to lose the card in TX was to commit an actual crime, not a paperwork crime. If you did, they’d come get your card. If you had your CHL, no NICS check was required, which saved time buying guns. No ammo laws. No rosters or lists - you can buy anything you want, and no AR-phobia like here in MA. Generally you are left alone.
Downsides to TX vs MA? More public ranges in TX means I saw quite a few more unsafe shooters at the range. Most of the time someone would get them straightened out, but it was definitely more common. Also, the heat. Holy crap the heat. Even when it wasn’t hot (November - February), it was usually 50 degrees, raining, and miserable out. About two good weeks of comfortable weather per year. Traffic was also pretty terrible if you lived close enough to town that you didn’t have to drive an hour to get to a grocery store.
Non-gun related stuff:
Property taxes about the same, but no state income tax. Gas prices a lot better, as was cost of living and housing prices (although they are going up lately).
For me, it comes down to the fact that I’m not treated like a second-class citizen or criminal in TX because I’m a gun owner and enjoy shooting sports. That’s more than I can say about MA, and it makes all the difference in the world.
My take:
MA carry permit process was easier. Finding a course to take was more difficult - not as many open ranges to shoot at (many more private clubs). MA requires the NRA class, and I’ve seen very little live fire done in them. TX requires a state specific course that covers shooting and the laws in TX, as well as de-escalation of force and an actual shooting test. It’s longer, but more thorough. Entire process was handled at the state Dept of Public Safety, no local entities involved for approval. State requires that money collected for the CHL program be spent only on costs associated with the licensing program - after the first few years, they found they had a surplus, and extended the expiration on the permits a few years as a result.
Carrying is less stressful in TX - if you reach for something and someone sees a pistol in a holster in your waistband in TX, nobody is going to flip out and call the police. In MA? Even here in western MA, it’s a concern. 30.06/07 signs were rare in TX in my experience. Bars had the red signs for 51%, but they often weren’t visible until you were in the bar, at which point it was already illegal to be carrying. Not sure if it was actually enforced, but I never heard of any issues with it. Saw people openly carrying in downtown Ft. Worth and Dallas before OC was on the books and it was never a big deal. Some of the more liberal areas (Austin, suburbs, etc) might be less-tolerant of it, but it’s still nothing like MA.
Cops in TX are generally very supportive of 2A rights - if someone hands them a CHL with their license during a stop, they know immediately they aren’t dealing with a felon or someone likely to cause trouble. Being asked to disarm during a traffic stop was very rare - it’d almost be an insult there. Only way to lose the card in TX was to commit an actual crime, not a paperwork crime. If you did, they’d come get your card. If you had your CHL, no NICS check was required, which saved time buying guns. No ammo laws. No rosters or lists - you can buy anything you want, and no AR-phobia like here in MA. Generally you are left alone.
Downsides to TX vs MA? More public ranges in TX means I saw quite a few more unsafe shooters at the range. Most of the time someone would get them straightened out, but it was definitely more common. Also, the heat. Holy crap the heat. Even when it wasn’t hot (November - February), it was usually 50 degrees, raining, and miserable out. About two good weeks of comfortable weather per year. Traffic was also pretty terrible if you lived close enough to town that you didn’t have to drive an hour to get to a grocery store.
Non-gun related stuff:
Property taxes about the same, but no state income tax. Gas prices a lot better, as was cost of living and housing prices (although they are going up lately).
For me, it comes down to the fact that I’m not treated like a second-class citizen or criminal in TX because I’m a gun owner and enjoy shooting sports. That’s more than I can say about MA, and it makes all the difference in the world.
ProGun
NES Member
Needless to say, I don't open carry in MA. And I'm careful my shirt stays over my gun. Funny thing is the only time I recall inadvertently "showing" my handgun was at a Chick-fil-A in Jacksonville, FL earlier this year. I got out of my truck and with my wife and baby daughter distracting me, I didn't check my shirt. It had ridden up over my gun. I walked in and on the way to the restroom realized it was exposed. I had just walked past a couple families eating and pretty sure someone noticed, but Jacksonville ain't Boston, so no big deal!
I'd take Texas over Mass!
ProGun
NES Member
Yeah, but I think they changed the law so accidentally showing your carry isn't a crime. I'd have to look up the details.
Quick search found it. Was back in 2011.
Accidental Gun Showing Bill Signed Into Law Friday
KBCraig
NES Member
The problem in Southern states, including Texas, is that the state bans carry in certain businesses whether the property owner welcomes it or not.
Texas is better than neighboring states, but not by much.
Criminal trespass in Texas is a Class C (same as a speeding ticket), but criminal trespass while in possession of a deadly weapon bumps it up to Class A (1 year in jail, loss of eligibility for a CHL for five years after completion of the sentence.
Give me an example of a business, give me a few examples of a business you can not carry in.
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Violation of a 30.06 or 30.07 sign is not "criminal trespass" unless entering unarmed would also be trespass, which is a class C misdemeanor except at certain places like hospitals.
MP-In-The-Wind
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Frisco eh? I was visiting my SIL last month in Frisco... I took her to the gun range there...nice place! They rent EVERYTHING! 8^)
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One of the worst fast food places. Same level as BK. Trash.
TX is awesome by the way.
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When I was in TX, I observed 30.06 compliant signs on the entrance to a hospital as well as to a Hertz Rent-A-Car facility. I noticed non-compliant signs on a dialysis facility door and the door to the TX Schoolbook Depository Museum.
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The history of TX binding signage is interesting. Shortly after CCW permitting was enacted, some officials were of the opinion that violating any sort of "no guns" sign constituted trespass and, therefore, carrying in violation of a sign was "armed criminal trespass" (a serious crime in TX). The binding signage law was intended to clarify what was at the time an ambiguity, and had the effect of potentially reducing the seriousness of any sign violation charge. I don't know if the "armed criminal trespass" theory was ever tested in a TX court.
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FrugalFannie
NES Member
I think the latest law also meant hospitals can not post against carrying.
If I carry past a "non legal" sign the most that can happen is someone (authorized by that business) can tell me to leave. If I leave, no worries. If I refuse I can be charged with trespass but it's not that serious as far as I know unless I repeatedly do it. Also, lots of things that would DQ me from owning a gun in TX "go away" after 5 years. Actually, not even sure if it DQs me from owning a gun or just having an LTC. Unlike MA with it's lifetime Federal DQ for a DUI at least if I manage to screw myself up here in TX, I will have the ability to unscrew myself!
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