Massachusetts firearms licenses

[Brunosr]

How many types of licensees does Massachusetts have, I thought only three. The FID Card, LTC B and the LTC A.

Filling out my renewal application this time around, I noticed on the license type page, an asterisk at the bottom of one page that said: None-resident LTC is issued for competition only.

I am not sure what this means. Have they added a forth type or have they changed the rules and are now saying a none-resident with a LTC-A with no restriction can no longer carry for protection??

 

[jasons]

Competition only? Hmmm, I'd love to see the MGL that supports that.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Resident Licenses:
LTC-A
LTC-B
FID-C (long guns & chem)
FID-D (restricted to chem only)
Machine Gun

Resident Alien - FID only from CJIS

NR Alien (meaning not living in MA) - NR LTC only good for competition

NR (US Citizen) - NR LTC only from CJIS

 

[terraformer]

It's just FID (restricted) and not FID-D. Similarly FID is just FID, and not FID-C. Some of you old timers still use the old lettering scheme but it's not technically there.

Resident Licenses:
LTC-A
LTC-B
FID-C (long guns & chem)
FID-D (restricted to chem only)
Machine Gun

Resident Alien - FID only from CJIS

NR Alien (meaning not living in MA) - NR LTC only good for competition

NR (US Citizen) - NR LTC only from CJIS

 

[Len-2A Training]

It's just FID (restricted) and not FID-D. Similarly FID is just FID, and not FID-C. Some of you old timers still use the old lettering scheme but it's not technically there.

That's what the PDs still call them.

TTBOMK the "C" and "D" were never stamped on the licenses, but I'll bet the end letter for each license number ends in C or D respectively.

 

[jasons]

Getting back to the OP, doesn't FOPA already cover stuff like competition? What does the MA non-res license get you besides a $100 hole in your checking account?

 

[center442]

Getting back to the OP, doesn't FOPA already cover stuff like competition? What does the MA non-res license get you besides a $100 hole in your checking account?

My guess would be that it lets you go to a range in MA for informal practice and shooting; IOW non-competition recreational shooting. I know that many shoots in MA provide a web page that can be printed out so that non-residents can bring it with them when they venture behind the MA iron curtain. The operative word is "competition," not just shooting.

 

[M1911]

Getting back to the OP, doesn't FOPA already cover stuff like competition? What does the MA non-res license get you besides a $100 hole in your checking account?

What FOPA covers is that if you are legal in your origin and legal in your destination, then you are legal along the way. FOPA doesn't cover you if you are not legal in your destination. And it doesn't matter whether your reason for traveling to that destination is for hunting, competition, or zombies.

 

[jasons]

My guess would be that it lets you go to a range in MA for informal practice and shooting; IOW non-competition recreational shooting. I know that many shoots in MA provide a web page that can be printed out so that non-residents can bring it with them when they venture behind the MA iron curtain. The operative word is "competition," not just shooting.

I guess it comes down to what activities in MA would allow someone without a MA license to "lawfully possess and carry such firearm." There are many activities that are listed in the MGL that are specifically allowed, and which therefore one would assume are "lawful."

Any person who is not a resident of the commonwealth may carry a pistol or revolver in or through the commonwealth for the purpose of taking part in a pistol or revolver competition or attending any meeting or exhibition of any organized group of firearm collectors or for the purpose of hunting; provided, that such person is a resident of the United States and has a permit or license to carry firearms issued under the laws of any state, district or territory thereof which has licensing requirements which prohibit the issuance of permits or licenses to persons who have been convicted of a felony or who have been convicted of the unlawful use, possession or sale of narcotic or harmful drugs; provided, further, that in the case of a person traveling in or through the commonwealth for the purpose of hunting, he has on his person a hunting or sporting license issued by the commonwealth or by the state of his destination. Police officers and other peace officers of any state, territory or jurisdiction within the United States duly authorized to possess firearms by the laws thereof shall, for the purposes of this section, be deemed to have a permit or license to carry firearms as described in this section.

Also Section 129C, which is too long to quote, but lists all sorts of exceptions including hunting (with a hunting license,) possession of rifles or shotguns at a shooting range, etc.


Combine that with FOPA and the only reason I can think of that you'd want or need a non-res permit would be to carry for protection. Since it's apparently the policy to restrict non-res licenses to specifically exclude the one thing that makes the license worth getting, why bother getting one?

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

 

[jasons]

And it doesn't matter whether your reason for traveling to that destination is for hunting, competition, or zombies.

That's what I don't understand... If those things are legal, which with the exception of zombies they are, then why wouldn't FOPA cover you?

 

[M1911]

That's what I don't understand... If those things are legal, which with the exception of zombies they are, then why wouldn't FOPA cover you?

That is a different concept.

Suppose I want to drive from MA to PA, bringing with me an AR15 that is illegal in CT. I'm legal in my origin, MA. I'm legal in my destination, PA. FOPA allows me to drive through CT, even though the gun itself is illegal in CT. My time in CT is simply a consequence of my travel from MA to PA. I'm not intending to go to CT, just to pass through.

Now suppose I want to attend a training class in CT with that same AR15 that is illegal in CT. Now I am intending to go to CT, not just pass through.

I can easily see how it would be far easier to get the former passed through Congress than the latter.

 

[Dick]

Competition only? Hmmm, I'd love to see the MGL that supports that.

Well, its Chapter 140, Section 131F, which spells out the procedure for non-residents to obtain a temporary LTC for competition. But then Section 131G says that you don't need any license if you're participating in a formal competition. I can't say for sure, but it looks like 131G only applies if the non-resident is coming from a state that has licensing that generally prohibits the same persons that Mass prohibits from getting LTCs, so if someone is coming into Mass from, say, Vermont where there's no licensing they'd have to get a temporary license under 131F.


I wonder how it would apply to competition shooters coming into Mass from my newly adopted state (NH), where there's a licensing procedure in place for concealed carry, but you don't actually need a license to purchase, own or transport a handgun, or even for open carry?

 

[jasons]

Now suppose I want to attend a training class in CT with that same AR15 that is illegal in CT. Now I am intending to go to CT, not just pass through.

Right, you can't "lawfully possess and carry such firearm" in that case so FOPA doesn't cover you. I get that. My point is that with the exception of self-defense, most of the things that you would want a gun for in MA are already legal anyway.

You DON'T need a non-res to go hunting, or to shoot an IDPA match, or go to the rifle range.

You DO need one for self-defense, but chances are you'll get a restricted license that won't allow that anyway.

So back to the question: What's the point?

 

[M1911]

So back to the question: What's the point?

You understand the various exceptions allowed by the MGL. Do you really trust Officer Unfriendly to be that familiar with MA law? I don't. I do trust him to recognize a NR-LTC.

 

[Len-2A Training]

131G is the kicker. There are almost NO states which "prohibits the same persons that Mass prohibits from getting LTCs"! EOPS has interpreted this to make the exemptions in 131G moot in 99% of cases. NH is nowhere near as restrictive as MA wrt DQs and that is what Dick's phrase actually means.

. . .

We allow it, but only if the person has a permit from a state that is as strict as MA.

But no states (or almost none) are that strict.

Right!

Gotcha Yossarian!

 

[jasons]

You understand the various exceptions allowed by the MGL. Do you really trust Officer Unfriendly to be that familiar with MA law? I don't. I do trust him to recognize a NR-LTC.

I'm asking from a "what the actually law says" perspective, which as we all know is not necessarily the same as what Officer Unfriendly ~thinks~ the law says. We all know MA officers rarely understand MA firearms law.

131G is the kicker. There are almost NO states which "prohibits the same persons that Mass prohibits from getting LTCs"! EOPS has interpreted this to make the exemptions in 131G moot in 99% of cases. NH is nowhere near as restrictive as MA wrt DQs and that is what Dick's phrase actually means.

. . .

We allow it, but only if the person has a permit from a state that is as strict as MA.

But no states (or almost none) are that strict.

Right!

Gotcha Yossarian!

Well, it specifies felony and drug convictions, which I assumed were already federal DQs anyway. (Could be wrong there.)