Massachusetts FID - Questions Regarding Carbines

[Yannie]

I know this question has been asked in various forms - I've read a number of related posts but wanted to get some verification from the community, as I've called 3 different FFL's in MA and received all sorts of answers.

The first question - can I buy a MA compliant carbine with an FID? EG: Sig MPX (I called Mass Firearms Store and they have one that's sold MA Compliant). They also said they'd sell it to me on an FID (others have told me no).

Second question - can I buy the ammo for it? My reading on ammo laws in MA says I cannot buy handgun ammunition. Can I buy 9mm for use in a carbine? Can I buy it in NH and possess it in MA (as the law says I can't buy it on an FID, but nothing that I've seen in regards to possession)?

Lastly, I'll attach a couple of screenshots - in general, does this mean if I don't have a large-cap magazine under my direct control or attached to a rifle, that I could carry all sorts of semi-auto rifles, as long as I only have 10 round magazines? I've read a LOT that contradicts this - but this mass.gov document seems to indicate otherwise?

Thanks all for the help - about to get an FID and would love to stay out of any sort of legal trouble (while also getting some fun rifles to shoot at the range).

 

[Shevchenko]

If MFS has one and says you can have it, I'd prob go for it, but IANAL

 

[Bigfudge16]

my understanding is that if it can accept a magazine larger than 10 rounds then it's considered a large capacity weapon and would require an LTC. Being prohibited from buying ammuntion is news to me.

all that being said, if they're willing to sell it to you....

 

[Yannie]

I know, I just don't know if, in the unlikely event that you needed to explain yourself, 'they sold it to be so I thought it was ok' is gonna cut it.

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

Maybe apply for LTC while sorting out this question? Won't help you immediately considering the length of the process, but now's a good a time as any to start it. Then this becomes moot in the future.

 

[Compooky]

Did you voluntarily choose a FID or are you underage? There’s also a fairly good chance it’ll get sold to someone else before you receive your FID.

 

[PATRON]

From what I see the SIG MPX rifle you are looking at is a post ban rifle thus the magazines are post ban,So no SIG MPX rifle is allowed in MA. with a hi cap magazine.
You are also not allowed to own a hi cap magazine in MA for that rifle.So by MA. law that rifle is only allowed to have a 10 round mag thus not making it a hi cap rifle.
the only problem is I don't know how that argument would work out in court.

 

[Bigfudge16]

From what I see the SIG MPX rifle you are looking at is a post ban rifle thus the magazines are post ban,So no SIG MPX rifle is allowed in MA. with a hi cap magazine.
You are also not allowed to own a hi cap magazine in MA for that rifle.So by MA. law that rifle is only allowed to have a 10 round mag thus not making it a hi cap rifle.
the only problem is I don't know how that argument would work out in court.

But can it physically accept one? That makes it a high cap rifle

 

[MisterHappy]

OP:

First, why "just" the FID?

Second, do NOT listen to gun stores, or the internet, for legal advice. IF you want to be sure, buy an hour's worth of a firearms-focused attorney.

Third, the "roster" constrains what a dealer may sell (it's a 'consumer protection' thing), not what you can own. There are many 'non-compliant' guns, hand and long, in the DPRM, lawfully possessed.

Fourth, the "Pistol ammo" thing is federal, not state; it's age-based not FID/LTC dependant. q.v.:

Does a customer have to be a certain age to buy firearms or ammunition from a licensee? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

That said, there is likely a long gun for every chambering, somewhere, so this is kind of moot. If you're at a NH Walmart, and the clerk says, "Is this for a pistol or rifle?." give the answer that's right for you.

Fifth, if the gun can accept a >10 round mag, it's going to require an LTC for lawful possession. (Garand (8 round internal) good) AR platform (Detachable mag, >10 rounds available not good). Also, a magazine, all alone by itself requires an LTC if it's >10 rounds. If it's "Post ban" it's verboten, regardless of permission slip held.

Sixth, do NOT listen to gun stores, or the internet, for legal advice. IF you want to be sure, buy an hour's worth of a firearms-focused attorney.

 

[DW357]

From what I see the SIG MPX rifle you are looking at is a post ban rifle thus the magazines are post ban,So no SIG MPX rifle is allowed in MA. with a hi cap magazine.
You are also not allowed to own a hi cap magazine in MA for that rifle.So by MA. law that rifle is only allowed to have a 10 round mag thus not making it a hi cap rifle.
the only problem is I don't know how that argument would work out in court.

MPX’s are perfectly legal in MA. They just need compliance work (fixed stock pin/weld muzzle device). Yes the “hi cap” mags for a MPX aren’t legal in MA since they’re postban.

Regarding if legal to buy/own with a FID I think misterhappy is correct in that it can accept mags greater than 10 rounds so it requires a LTC

 

[Chevy 2 65]

OP !!!!!! Why only FID?

 

[DW357]

OP !!!!!! Why only FID?
View attachment 566481

I’m guessing he’s 18 yo?

 

[MisterHappy]

I’m guessing he’s 18 yo?

I had a fellow Club member show up at an NRA Basic Pistol course, that I was helping with. Thought he was going to help on the line, as a coach. No, he wanted his LTC, as he only had an FID. He was not a kid.

It happens. Though I think that you're right, since he had the question about pistol ammo purchase.

 

[Yannie]

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the thoughts here. I do have an LTC application ready to go, the problem is a 15 year old DUI on my record. They're now issuing FID's again, no questions but for the LTC I have to wait for a denial and then go through the Firearms Licensing Appeals Board process to see if I can get that overturned. I'm not sure how that'll play out. I've never had any other legal trouble, good long term job, etc.

I guess maybe I'll just stick to more basic rifles/shotguns and see how the appeals thing shakes out over the course of the year.

 

[MisterHappy]

Yeah...you do NOT want a denial on your app, because from now to the end of time, the question, "Have you ever been denied...." will have to be answered in the affirmative.

My two cents - get a gun-centric attorney on board, ASAP. I'm thinking that an hour's lawyer time now may save a lot of problems later.

YMMV

 

[spt_1955]

I had a fellow Club member show up at an NRA Basic Pistol course, that I was helping with. Thought he was going to help on the line, as a coach. No, he wanted his LTC, as he only had an FID. He was not a kid.

It happens. Though I think that you're right, since he had the question about pistol ammo purchase.

I didn't get my LTC until I was over 5 years old. Funny thing is that I found my "Lifetime FID" the other day when cleaning. Only reason I got my LTC was that since they were going to charge me $100 to renew my "lifetime FID" I figured I'd get the LTC for the same price. After I got it I said "shit.. might as well get a pistol...." which is probaby not what they were hoping when they changed the law!!!!

 

[MisterHappy]

I didn't get my LTC until I was over 5 years old. Funny thing is that I found my "Lifetime FID" the other day when cleaning. Only reason I got my LTC was that since they were going to charge me $100 to renew my "lifetime FID" I figured I'd get the LTC for the same price. After I got it I said "shit.. might as well get a pistol...." which is probaby not what they were hoping when they changed the law!!!!

You should post in the "When should I bring my kid to the range?" thread.

 

[CrackPot]

OP, you found all the correct information in both the law and in 501CMR7. They defined what "readily modifiable to accept a LCFD" means and what "able to accept a LCFD" mean in a brilliant case of insanity such that pretty much any semi-auto not on the Large Capacity Roster can be possessed by a FID holder. This was done once they realized FUDDs could not own Ruger 10/22s, Ruger Mini-14s and other such harmless items on their FIDs. So if you do not possess a magazine in excess of 10rds for the rifle, you are in fact legal. This is why MFS will sell it to you because unlike 90%+ of gun shops and most of the respondents here they know the law. I routinely sell semi-auto rifles with detachable magazines to FID holders as long as the rifle in question is NOT on the Large Capacity Roster and as long as I am providing only magazines of 10rds or less. All lawful for both parties.

my understanding is that if it can accept a magazine larger than 10 rounds then it's considered a large capacity weapon and would require an LTC. Being prohibited from buying ammuntion is news to me.

all that being said, if they're willing to sell it to you....

The OP linked the relevant CMR which redefines what capable of accepting a LCFD means. You thought reading English was a useful skill but this is MA and laws/CMRs written by idiots. So no, being able to accept a LCFD is itself not enough to make it a large capacity weapon. You have to possess one and have it inserted or partially inserted otherwise it is not a LCW.

From what I see the SIG MPX rifle you are looking at is a post ban rifle thus the magazines are post ban,So no SIG MPX rifle is allowed in MA. with a hi cap magazine.
You are also not allowed to own a hi cap magazine in MA for that rifle.So by MA. law that rifle is only allowed to have a 10 round mag thus not making it a hi cap rifle.
the only problem is I don't know how that argument would work out in court.

HUH? The MPX if made compliant with the AWB is perfectly legal to own in MA. I sell them whenever I can get them into stock. I am not sure what you are trying to say in your post but it is as confusing as can be and seems to make no point I can follow. EVERYONE in MA can own a MPX, LTC and FID holders as long as it is AWB compliant and the FID holder as long as they only have 10rd mags.

OP:


Fifth, if the gun can accept a >10 round mag, it's going to require an LTC for lawful possession. (Garand (8 round internal) good) AR platform (Detachable mag, >10 rounds available not good). Also, a magazine, all alone by itself requires an LTC if it's >10 rounds. If it's "Post ban" it's verboten, regardless of permission slip held.

Sixth, do NOT listen to gun stores, or the internet, for legal advice. IF you want to be sure, buy an hour's worth of a firearms-focused attorney.

Seven: dont listen to @MisterHappy . Go back and read the OPs post as he properly linked in MGL and the relevant CMR and in fact a FID holder CAN own a MPX, a Ruger 10-22, a Ruger Mini-14, a AR-7 and a host of other semi-auto rifles with detachable magazines as long as the FID holder does not possess a magazine over 10rds and have a magazine over 10rds inserted or partially inserted into the gun.

This is not about what the words mean in English but what the law and CMR actually says. The redefined common English in the CMR and low and behold you can now have semi-auto rifles with detachable mags as a FID holder.

 

[AHM]

I do have an LTC application ready to go, the problem is a 15 year old DUI on my record.

A conviction for DUI in Massachusetts?

They're now issuing FID's again, no questions but for the LTC I have to wait for a denial and then go through the Firearms Licensing Appeals Board process to see if I can get that overturned. I'm not sure how that'll play out. I've never had any other legal trouble, good long term job, etc.

I guess maybe I'll just stick to more basic rifles/shotguns and see how the appeals thing shakes out over the course of the year.

Your cunning plan is to stick to more basic rifles/shotguns
because you want to commit a Federal felony?

Falmouth PD: FID Cardholder: Federally Prohibited Person Notification
@Len-2A Training @nstassel