Mass State Police Switching From .45 Back To 9mm

[Chappy7]

I don't dimples would approve of the staties buying Glocks.
I heard they are double-secret-dangerous and at the same time less likely to cause an AD/ND and a premise for future legal action.

Huh? Super special top secret police training is all that is needed to be able to use a Glock. SP has that, but the common folk don't, that's why they are on the super secret can't sell to the public cause they'll choot themselves list!

 

[Mesatchornug]

Not sure if serious, they basically just stopped giving freebies and handouts to PDs. They reached a point where they realized that nothing would come from it. They make so much on commercial that pandering to LE doesn’t matter so much anymore.

If we think about it as advertising, they've probably hit saturation. The market knows they exist, and that they've been successfully used by LE/MIL. They've bought their bona fides, now's the time to reap the profits.

 

[mav]

I get the switch back to nine. I mean, I have .45ACP and 9mm and I think it's always better to have more rounds available as "stopping power" seems a nebulous concept, but it seems that Sig is winning an inordinate amount of contracts of late. Between the M18 pistol for the Army, the new XM5 and XM250 Army contract for the Next Gen Squad Weapon and 6.8mm ammunition, now the MSP are switching from what would seem to be new and perfectly usable M&P's. I love my Sig P220 Scorpion and have owned other Sig pistols, but is the M18/320 really that much better than an S&W M&P? Or Glock 17/19 for that matter? I suppose I could see Glock not getting the contract because they aren't a US based company and I think with all the supply chain snafus we've had, many are leaning towards "Made in US"...

 

[general disorder]

This from what I have been told is they want to go back to Sig. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

[daekken]

I think they should follow my lead and carry a P22 with Federal Punch.. It's light, kinda accurate and looks cool.

I prefer an upgraded BG380 with a new mag release, and an optional rear sight. Gives it the Battleworn look.

 

[SHOCKNAWE]

I just worked for a joke of a sheriffs department but our department went to the Sig P320 over Glock because the Superintendent and director of security didn’t trust the staff on how you have to pull the trigger on the Glock to break it down. That’s what I was told anyways.

I’m sure the decision maker for the MSP gets the best kickback from Sig

 

[Dennis in MA]

I get the switch back to nine. I mean, I have .45ACP and 9mm and I think it's always better to have more rounds available as "stopping power" seems a nebulous concept, but it seems that Sig is winning an inordinate amount of contracts of late. Between the M18 pistol for the Army, the new XM5 and XM250 Army contract for the Next Gen Squad Weapon and 6.8mm ammunition, now the MSP are switching from what would seem to be new and perfectly usable M&P's. I love my Sig P220 Scorpion and have owned other Sig pistols, but is the M18/320 really that much better than an S&W M&P? Or Glock 17/19 for that matter? I suppose I could see Glock not getting the contract because they aren't a US based company and I think with all the supply chain snafus we've had, many are leaning towards "Made in US"...

Look at how many people jumped on the Beretta wagon when the .mil went with the 92. I never got the hype. Big heavy pistol with a DA/SA trigger.

Hell, I don't get teh .mil swapping them OUT. I mean, how often are pistols even USED in hte military these days? They had a very reliable platform with effectively zero recoil (because of all of that steel). Swap out some some baby-handed person can hold one?? C'mon.

 

[Quite_Exasperated]

And….that just about sums up the state of the country today….

 

[enbloc]

A TV set? that will work swimmingly with donut dust coating the screen

 

[track65]

A couple of reasons why Police Dept's. switching from .45 to 9mm is the cost of ammo. When the buget pencil pushers look at the difference it is no brainer for them. All Ma. PD's now have to at least qualify twice a year. Another is the new recruits coming into the profession is that it is their first experience with firearms. You would be surprise to know how much ammo it takes to train some people to handle a handgun. I had seen it many times and our department only had 50 officers when I was working.

 

[enbloc]

 

[snubnose]

They should have gone with Glock.

Of course SIG is closer to Mass to provide strippers for all that decide.

Glock only go boom if you pull the trigger or get something stuck in the trigger.

What is the Over / Under for medical retirements for the Staties who get blown up from these SIGs that fire on there own?

For a population so mission critical for public safety - I can't imagine why and Police Department would choose such an unreliable POS.

I imagine the decision was made on "Friday Night" at the usual hang out...


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2XdmyBtCRQ


Although I hear that Gaston threw some wild parties at Shot Show, too.

It would appear that the only critical mission for the MSP is fudging extra detail time slips.

 

[PappyM3]

Look at how many people jumped on the Beretta wagon when the .mil went with the 92. I never got the hype. Big heavy pistol with a DA/SA trigger.

Hell, I don't get teh .mil swapping them OUT. I mean, how often are pistols even USED in hte military these days? They had a very reliable platform with effectively zero recoil (because of all of that steel). Swap out some some baby-handed person can hold one?? C'mon.

A lot of the M9s were completely worn out. And it doesn’t cost a whole lot for the military to buy a COTS replacement.

Going with the P320 platform across services, the small arms parts supply chain can be streamlined.

The M9 is a dream to shoot. But there are reasons for ditching it:
* Like you said, it’s a little heavy (the frame is aluminum and not steel by the way). Even though pistols aren’t common among ground combat troops, shaving weight from the ever-growing combat load weight is always welcome.

* Further, the M9’s size was not easy to grip for many women in the military. There were far fewer women in the military when the M9 was chosen.

* A new pistol like the M17/M18 can easily have optics and lights added without permanent modification.

 

[general disorder]

A lot of the M9s were completely worn out. And it doesn’t cost a whole lot for the military to buy a COTS replacement.

Going with the P320 platform across services, the small arms parts supply chain can be streamlined.

The M9 is a dream to shoot. But there are reasons for ditching it:
* Like you said, it’s a little heavy (the frame is aluminum and not steel by the way). Even though pistols aren’t common among ground combat troops, shaving weight from the ever-growing combat load weight is always welcome.

* Further, the M9’s size was not easy to grip for many women in the military. There were far fewer women in the military when the M9 was chosen.

* A new pistol like the M17/M18 can easily have optics and lights added without permanent modification.

A lot of the M9s were completely worn out. And it doesn’t cost a whole lot for the military to buy a COTS replacement.

Going with the P320 platform across services, the small arms parts supply chain can be streamlined.

The M9 is a dream to shoot. But there are reasons for ditching it:
* Like you said, it’s a little heavy (the frame is aluminum and not steel by the way). Even though pistols aren’t common among ground combat troops, shaving weight from the ever-growing combat load weight is always welcome.

* Further, the M9’s size was not easy to grip for many women in the military. There were far fewer women in the military when the M9 was chosen.

* A new pistol like the M17/M18 can easily have optics and lights added without permanent modification.

Also this guaranties new guns across the board. If they had gone with the A4 or what ever the new M9 would have been called it would have continued the mess that many units deal with now. Taking slides and frames from different guns and making them work to stretch money out.

 

[scottco]

Guns.com had MSP marked pistols that were never delivered. I tried to buy one, but they wouldn’t ship one to MA.

Does this mean i should sell them lol

 

[drgrant]

A couple of reasons why Police Dept's. switching from .45 to 9mm is the cost of ammo. When the buget pencil pushers look at the difference it is no brainer for them. All Ma. PD's now have to at least qualify twice a year. Another is the new recruits coming into the profession is that it is their first experience with firearms. You would be surprise to know how much ammo it takes to train some people to handle a handgun. I had seen it many times and our department only had 50 officers when I was working.

MSP has money, they let the guys take the cars home with them. Plus also, they getting ammo without paying FET and at contracted prices without interloper markups. Totally different supply chain.

 

[drgrant]

If we think about it as advertising, they've probably hit saturation. The market knows they exist, and that they've been successfully used by LE/MIL. They've bought their bona fides, now's the time to reap the profits.

Exactly....

One thing I remembered....

Glock still does partial "LE whoring" under the blue label program but even those discounted guns aren't profit free.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

Should have bought Glocks and AK's.

 

[Gasgunner]

Does this mean i should sell them lol

One to me would be fine. Did they come from Guns.com? They wouldn’t budge on shipping one to a MA FFL.

 

[G4Y4HK]

Look at how many people jumped on the Beretta wagon when the .mil went with the 92. I never got the hype. Big heavy pistol with a DA/SA trigger.

Hell, I don't get teh .mil swapping them OUT. I mean, how often are pistols even USED in hte military these days? They had a very reliable platform with effectively zero recoil (because of all of that steel). Swap out some some baby-handed person can hold one?? C'mon.

The Beretta 92 is the only pistol I've given to a complete gun noob and the person shooting it doesn't stovepipe jam even with complete limp wristing. Give em a Glock and it'll jam every time in their hands. FN, SIG, HK, jam occasionally but the 92FS never did, probably something to do with the ridiculous open ejection area. Something to think about when giving minimally trained people a pistol to shoot.

 

[Dennis in MA]

A lot of the M9s were completely worn out. And it doesn’t cost a whole lot for the military to buy a COTS replacement.

Going with the P320 platform across services, the small arms parts supply chain can be streamlined.

The M9 is a dream to shoot. But there are reasons for ditching it:
* Like you said, it’s a little heavy (the frame is aluminum and not steel by the way). Even though pistols aren’t common among ground combat troops, shaving weight from the ever-growing combat load weight is always welcome.

* Further, the M9’s size was not easy to grip for many women in the military. There were far fewer women in the military when the M9 was chosen.

* A new pistol like the M17/M18 can easily have optics and lights added without permanent modification.

Then they should have gone back to 1911's. Those things were working 40 years later just fine. LOL

 

[PappyM3]

Then they should have gone back to 1911's. Those things were working 40 years later just fine. LOL

Haha, no they weren’t.

 

[scottco]

One to me would be fine. Did they come from Guns.com? They wouldn’t budge on shipping one to a MA FFL.

The mill had them guns.com wouldn’t ship

 

[MaybeMe]

The Beretta 92 is the only pistol I've given to a complete gun noob and the person shooting it doesn't stovepipe jam even with complete limp wristing. Give em a Glock and it'll jam every time in their hands. FN, SIG, HK, jam occasionally but the 92FS never did, probably something to do with the ridiculous open ejection area. Something to think about when giving minimally trained people a pistol to shoot.

I’ve shot around a different dozen pistols in my life and I honestly liked the feel and recoil of the 92 the most. It felt smooth like butter compared to any Glocks or S&Ws I’ve shot so I can see the appeal.

 

[Quantavious G]

They just switched to M&P2.0s. A batch was rejected, so I wonder if they've found other problems and decided to go back to Sig

maybe they got sent a batch with that craptastic mass trigger spring us plebes are supposed to use

 

[Gasgunner]

The mill had them guns.com wouldn’t ship

I wish the Mill was closer. Frequent visits would devastate my bank account however.

 

[Endangered]

Everyone must have gotten some money for new guns. My local department is switching to 9mm now as well. I believe they are going to FN's with optics to help the folks that can't cut the mustard with irons.

 

[mav]

I’ve shot around a different dozen pistols in my life and I honestly liked the feel and recoil of the 92 the most. It felt smooth like butter compared to any Glocks or S&Ws I’ve shot so I can see the appeal.

I felt the same way about the Sig P229 in 9mm and I would guess the Sig P226. Lighter is great for carrying, not so much for shooting/recoil. Both my Glock 9mm’s, G17 and 19, I’ve added metal guide rods to add a bit of weight to it. Flame on…

 

[Yazz]

What no Floberts available?

 

[TheArizonan]

Last I knew, my county's deputies were issued G17's at the academy. Lately all I'm seeing them with are P320's. Same for AZ F&G. My town still issues Glock but they went from 40 to 9, and the town a country mile over went from G21's to G17's. Heck, we've even got a town a few country miles over that issues the G20. Interesting decision I'd love to hear why it was chosen over the others.