Mass is full of Moonbats...

[C-pher]

Someone explain this to me.

I just caught the news this morning, and they were doing a bit on Minimum Wage. They said that the House approved the bill to raise the Minumum Wage in MA to $7.50 in 2007 and $8.00 in 2008.

They then reported that the Senate would veto the House if they approve this bill.

WTF! I see all these articles about how people are coming to school here, then leaving because they can't afford to live here. Now, they have a way to help because Minimum Wage hasn't been raised in a decade.

IN 10 YEARS!! Now, I can tell you that the cost of living has gone up A LOT in ten years. Why would then not approve this?

Wouldn't this help the people of this state?

Am I missing something?

I did try to google news Minimum Wage in MA. But I didn't find anything.

 

[Bolt308]

It wouldn't help the RIGHT people in this state.

 

[dreppucci007]

It wouldn't help the RIGHT people in this state.

+1

 

[Mike508]

Wasn't there an attachment to the bill that would decrease the tax on capital gains? That, too, is a devisive issue between the Republicans and the jackovasaurs.

 

[TY43215]

Someone explain this to me.

I just caught the news this morning, and they were doing a bit on Minimum Wage. They said that the House approved the bill to raise the Minimum Wage in MA to $7.50 in 2007 and $8.00 in 2008.

They then reported that the Senate would veto the House if they approve this bill.

WTF! I see all these articles about how people are coming to school here, then leaving because they can't afford to live here. Now, they have a way to help because Minimum Wage hasn't been raised in a decade. .

Let them go back where they came from and screw up their home states. These are the people that are voting away your rights after attending the bleeding heart Boston colleges.

IN 10 YEARS!! Now, I can tell you that the cost of living has gone up A LOT in ten years. Why would then not approve this?

Wouldn't this help the people of this state? .

Why are you trying to help? Anyone working for minimum wage is not going to make it in the Commonwealth of MA. They never have been able to.

When they get rid of all the socialist programs and the pork barrel state spending, maybe someone will be able to survive.

When they get rid of the political theory that if you can not do your job, hire an assistant, maybe that will help.

When they get rid of the "Throw money at it and it will go away" ideas, maybe that will help. Raising a minimum wage will not help.

How much should the minimum wage be?? $10?? $15??$20??$50?? What does an average person need to survive here? At what point does education and training come into play?

If I leave High school to earn the $15 per hour minimum wage, how much should my neighbor that graduated earn?

How about the kid that went to College and earned a degree (as useless as some may be)

How about the Tradesman that did 5 years apprenticeship and schooling?

Am I missing something?
.

If you have to ask, maybe you are My thought is why should a government tell anyone how much they need to pay an employee?? When does the government roll back and get out of my wallet? When do the professional politicians stop collecting their over inflated welfare wages (That's right, WELFARE. They are paid by us for NOT representing us) and get a real job. If any of the Reps or Senators in this state had to work, they would be in big trouble.

Now, chew on this a bit. If the Minimum wage is $10 per hour, what should the Maximum wage be?.. If you set one, you really should be fair and set the other.

Sorry,

 

[hallettguy]

+1 well sorry c-pher but i need to second that statement! well said Round gun shooter! this is just going to bring more poor uneducated people to are state! I do not want that!

 

[Nashmack]

What's the point in having a minimum wage in the first place when a non english speaking, hard working, undocumented, illegal, and non tax paying immigrant is going to do the same job for $5 an hour paid in cash?

 

[KMaurer]

1. People who graduate from college don't tend to work at minimum wage jobs.
2. Raising the minimum wage increases unemployment among low paid workers. (A lot of libtards like to spin and claim it doesn't, but it's a hard cruel economic fact, supported by every good empirical study ever done.)
3. The real reason libs always want to raise the minimum wage is because it panders to one of their major special interest groups. A lot of union contracts are indexed to changes in the minimum wage. My brother-in-law is a senior engineer for Ford. Even though he's not union, his pay is linked to the union pay scales. If the minimum wage goes up, the union pay scales automatically increase as well, and so does his.

If the libs really believed the crap they spew about the minimum wage, they'd propose increasing the minimum wage at least to the point where a full-time worker supporting his or her family wouldn't be "in poverty". That was $18,850 for a family of four in 2004, which would make the wage $9.07, plus inflation since then. And of course since the cost of living is significantly higher in Massachusetts than the national average, the minimum wage should be correspondingly higher, maybe something around $15.

Ken

 

[C-pher]

I guess that I wasn't look at this as bringing in low paying jobs.

I'm thinking back to when I was in school and working in the mall at Bombay Company and when not working there I was bartending.

And while I was making 6 bucks an hour I would have liked to make more due to min wage. As I was watching my rent go up, but my wages weren't.

While my family does not have a problem getting by, I still had to work for my money. It would have been nice to have my family get me by, but I had to work. And with working, I'm watching my cost of living go up, while my pay wasn't.

I wasn't looking for welfare, but I was looking for something for the work I was doing.

Like it not, if we don't have college kids working in the mall, and waiting tables, you guys would complain that there was no one working. And you can't understand anyone when you just try to go to the GAP for a pair of jeans.

Like it or not, these jobs are needed. And just because it's a job in the mall...or it's someone slinging drinks at 99 doesn't mean that they shouldn't get a fair price for their work.

 

[jkelly]

...who determines what “a fair price” is...

Like it or not, these jobs are needed. And just because it's a job in the mall...or it's someone slinging drinks at 99 doesn't mean that they shouldn't get a fair price for their work.---C-pher

Absolutely, but who determines what “a fair price” is, the market or the socialists?


Respectfully,

jdkelly

 

[highlander]

minimum wage is a joke most employers pay more because you can't find anyone that work that cheap legally beside if min wage goes up so will your over all cost so your back to square one And whose to say what fair is 10 20 30 dollar /hr for working at McD well when your Big Mac goes from $5 to $10 no one will be saying fair they"ll be screaming price gouging ripoff etc.
I still remember the $600 toilet seats and $50 ball peen hammers and guess who paid for ? got a mirror

 

[TY43215]

Like it or not, these jobs are needed. And just because it's a job in the mall...or it's someone slinging drinks at 99 doesn't mean that they shouldn't get a fair price for their work.

Your starting to sound like the illegal aliens, they use the exact same argument and it doesn't hold water for them either.

BTW. if you are looking for sympathy, try the dictionary. It is somewhere between shit and syphilis.

 

[C-pher]

I understand. And I know that this is a fine line. And yes, the market SHOULD determine the fair price.

But, when you have a ton of people that want to take advantage of everyone because they can...I don't think that that's fair either.

And before you say that people don't have to do these jobs, they do. Like it or not, some people can't afford to go to College. Not because they don't want too. But College is expensive. And there are familes that work hard, but don't have the money to put thier kids into school.

So, the kids work. Because they don't want to mooch off the government. But, they can't move forward doing the jobs that are needed because they aren't getting paid. And only because why pay someone fair pay to work a job that we don't because we went to school...when you can pay them the minimum.


I don't want to sound like a libtard. But I've had to work these jobs because like I said. My family has money. But they wouldn't give it too me, and I had to work. Which I hated when I was a kid, but I'm glad now that they did it.

But I can tell you it was hard to pay rent, buy groceries, and pay bills without working two jobs and having two roommates.

Like it or not, price of living has gone up A LOT since I was working those jobs. But the pay for those jobs haven't...

 

[C-pher]

You guys are killing me. Round Gun, I have to say, that's pretty funny.

 

[highlander]

I can sympathize with C-PHER when I was younger I worked all kinds of jobs from McD to gas stations made my basic needs but thats it
people or should I says kids just entering the work force have few if any marketable skills and they do have to start someplace as they gain experience they make more money and the cycle starts you get paid for what you know the more you know the more you get paid
Hell I didn't make enough money to buy a house car get married till I was thirty and frankly It was dumb luck more than anything else that I have what I have
I got out of HS in 68 fair education but not much else couldn't afford college even if I could the draft was in full swing and everyone was going to college to beat the draft but those of you in my age bracket know the history those days
Not to be long winded but you got to start some place and if thats 8 9 10bucks an hour so be it

 

[dwarven1]

Chris,

when the minimum wage goes up, entry level jobs go AWAY. The business owners can't afford it. This is confirmed by studies. It's that simple. It don't work they way the libs think it does.

but it sounds good on the six o'clock news.

 

[jkelly]

I understand. And I know that this is a fine line. And yes, the market SHOULD determine the fair price.

But, when you have a ton of people that want to take advantage of everyone because they can...I don't think that that's fair either.---C-pher

What you call a ton of people taking advantage of everyone is the market determining the "fair price” for ones work. If you can be replaced at the drop of a hat by an unskilled person then you likely will not be working for a “living wage” (a wage that can support you).


Respectfully,

jdkelly

 

[TY43215]

And before you say that people don't have to do these jobs, they do. Like it or not, some people can't afford to go to College. Not because they don't want too. But College is expensive. And there are familes that work hard, but don't have the money to put thier kids into school.

Give me a break. A kid doing a news paper route can afford to go to college. Community College in MA is $3500 per year plus the added extras but still affordable.

You wrote:

I don't want to sound like a libtard. But I've had to work these jobs because like I said. My family has money. But they wouldn't give it too me, and I had to work. Which I hated when I was a kid, but I'm glad now that they did it.

You Do sound like a "libtard". I don't "give" my kids anything either except a strong work ethic. They have learned and are still learning if you work, you can make it. If you don't, you will not. Daughter works 1 full time and 2 part time jobs. Son works 2 long hour part time jobs. Both are making it but barely. They will be better off in the long run.

Regards,

 

[C-pher]

I don't "give" my kids anything either except a strong work ethic. They have learned and are still learning if you work, you can make it. If you don't, you will not. Daughter works 1 full time and 2 part time jobs. Son works 2 long hour part time jobs. Both are making it but barely. They will be better off in the long run.

Yea, that was my point. I had to work. I'm sure that you're kids would rather give you stuff than have to do it on their own.

Everyone would rather do that. But, by working some crap jobs and seeing that if you work, and save...you can get that 10 speed you've wanted all summer.

Or the chrome headers for your Trans Am.

And yes, what's said about being replaced at the drop of a hat...I do understand.

And I've never said that we pay the college kid working at American Eagle 10 bucks an hour...

But, why should it be any different for the job you do now...with the basic sence of the job. And don't give me the whole, "I'm in a job that requires knowledge." Because that's not my point.

You do your job. You get paid. The cost of living goes up because that's what happens. Every 12-15 months you get a bonus, or a raise. But for the most part your salary goes up though the years.

And in regards to all our jobs. If you think that you can quit and there's no one to replace you, then you're living in a dream world. Every one of our jobs can be replaced by someone.

I'm just saying, that the people working should see a cost of living increase as well. The job that's still paying 5 bucks an hour for the past 10 years isn't doing anything but saving the the owner some money.

Ross, these jobs aren't going to go away. Just because we choose to pay three people working in a store a dollar or two more.

 

[dwarven1]

Ross, these jobs aren't going to go away. Just because we choose to pay three people working in a store a dollar or two more.

Actually, they are. Studies have shown that when the minimum wage goes up, companies that have workers earning that will make do with less employees - because the company's overhead has just INCREASED.

I'll look for some links to point you at. I know that Larry Elder wrote about this in a book of his I read recently, and he mentions the studies by name.

Ross

 

[TY43215]

You do your job. You get paid. The cost of living goes up because that's what happens. Every 12-15 months you get a bonus, or a raise. But for the most part your salary goes up though the years.

Your logic is lost on me. I am self employed which probably explains my hard line stance on this.

Again, if you really believe in minimum wage, tell me what the maximum wage should be. Isn't that partly what Communism is based on?

Regards,

 

[C-pher]

Every company does that. Right now, I'm working for a world wide company...one the the top Tech companies in the world...

Right now, when people quit, they are not backfilling these positions. And no one is making anymore money. That's going to happen no matter who the job is...

But I just can seeing all the malls close, no more eateries and bars, just because we want to pay people a fair price parallel to todays cost of living.

 

[KMaurer]

Every company does that. Right now, I'm working for a world wide company...one the the top Tech companies in the world...

Right now, when people quit, they are not backfilling these positions. And no one is making anymore money. That's going to happen no matter who the job is...

But I just can seeing all the malls close, no more eateries and bars, just because we want to pay people a fair price parallel to todays cost of living.

Of course they won't close. They'll start out by doing exactly the same as they're doing in your firm. People will leave, and they won't fill those positions, just pressure everybody else to work harder to "take up the slack". Over time, they'll find ways to get technology to do the jobs cheaper than even those "low paid" workers. Haven't you noticed that Wal-Mart, Home Depot, Shaws and a lot of other retail places now have self checkout lines, where you scan and bag your own items, then pay the machine? You've got one "checker" overseeing 4-6 checkout lines, doing the job that 4-6 near minimum wage workers used to do.

It's hardly a case of some rich business owners "exploiting" (whatever the f*$% that's supposed to mean) the poor workers. It's simple survival. If they don't do it, somebody else is going to get some venture capital backing, start up a competitor (Faisal-Mart, Apu & Sanjay's, Octavio's) and drive them out of business. Think Ames, Zody's, Caldors, etc.

Ken

 

[highlander]

has anyone called for help via a toll free number lately? my laptop and several of my credit cards help line is in INDIA. the techs here priced them selves out of a job the Co moves them to offshore pay the help much less (but very good money for their part of the world) I work for a Defense contracror and they are shipping out work to who knows where because labor cost health care is cheaper or non existent BTW my biggest complaint on help line in India MOST OF THE TIME I CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHAT THEIR SAYING don't want to seem rude but.......

 

[Len-2A Training]

I'm in no position to provide an expert answer here on the minimum wage, but I can refute C-pher's comment:

And I've never said that we pay the college kid working at American Eagle 10 bucks an hour...

I know someone who was working at a similar type clothing place in a Metro-West mall and was indeed making $10/hr at this part-time job (between semesters in college).

 

[jkelly]

And in regards to all our jobs. If you think that you can quit and there's no one to replace you, then you're living in a dream world. Every one of our jobs can be replaced by someone.---C-Pher

C-Pher,
It’s not that you can be replaced, but rather how difficult/expensive it is to replace you. To your employer that’s where your value lies.


Respectfully,

jkelly

 

[Jose]

Yea, that was my point. I had to work. I'm sure that you're kids would rather give you stuff than have to do it on their own.

Everyone would rather do that. But, by working some crap jobs and seeing that if you work, and save...you can get that 10 speed you've wanted all summer.

Or the chrome headers for your Trans Am.

And yes, what's said about being replaced at the drop of a hat...I do understand.

And I've never said that we pay the college kid working at American Eagle 10 bucks an hour...

But, why should it be any different for the job you do now...with the basic sence of the job. And don't give me the whole, "I'm in a job that requires knowledge." Because that's not my point.

You do your job. You get paid. The cost of living goes up because that's what happens. Every 12-15 months you get a bonus, or a raise. But for the most part your salary goes up though the years.

And in regards to all our jobs. If you think that you can quit and there's no one to replace you, then you're living in a dream world. Every one of our jobs can be replaced by someone.

I'm just saying, that the people working should see a cost of living increase as well. The job that's still paying 5 bucks an hour for the past 10 years isn't doing anything but saving the the owner some money.

Ross, these jobs aren't going to go away. Just because we choose to pay three people working in a store a dollar or two more.

The only moonbat I see in this entire discussion is YOU.

You fail to grasp the most basic concepts of compensation and employment economics.

I offer this as proof:

Ross, these jobs aren't going to go away. Just because we choose to pay three people working in a store a dollar or two more

 

[drgrant]

I don't think raising the minimum is necessary.

Why? Because most jobs, even the "s*it" ones, don't sit at the minimum
wage level anyways. Some might, but most of those jobs are the once
that require about 2 brain cells. Most are higher than that becuase
they want at least -some- insurance against high turnover. So the wages
normalize because the similar business all have to compete against one another for halfway decent people.

-Mike

 

[rclarkston]

But I just can seeing all the malls close, no more eateries and bars, just because we want to pay people a fair price parallel to todays cost of living.

Most of the job loss associated with the wage increase does not occur overnight. Although, some small employers might quickly cut a worker here and there due to not being able to afford the increased wages for all their workers. The more likely scenario is for jobs to be eliminated through attrition and increased productivity.

When the wage paid for a particular job rises above the "market value" for the job, more people become interested in performing the job. The pool of qualified applicants now increases for open jobs. This increase in the applicant pool creates competition for the jobs allowing the employer to be more selective in hiring, and in theory, allowing the employer to hire better employees. It is simple supply and demand, and is the same principal for why an employer would increase the wage paid for a job. Hiring "better" employees should result in increased productivity, thus allowing the employer to use fewer employees for the same amount of work output.

This principal is the reason why illegal immigration hurts low wage workers more than a low minimum wage does. When you hear on the news that "illegals" are only taking the jobs Americans don't want, what is really being said is that "illegals are taking jobs that Americans don't want at the wage being offered. Absent this pool of "illegals" that will work for substandard wages, employers seeking to fill these "undesireable" jobs would be forced to increase the wage they are willing to pay unti a sufficient pool of applicants becomes interested in the jobs.

The irony here is that illegal immigrants, who are widely supported by the Democrats, have the biggest negative impact on the demographic at the core of the Democrats' constituency--the poor. Republicans, at least our president, support illegal immigrants because illegals benefit the Republican's core constituents--big business.

 

[senorFrog]

WTF! I see all these articles about how people are coming to school here, then leaving because they can't afford to live here. Now, they have a way to help because Minimum Wage hasn't been raised in a decade.

I don't think the people coming to school here are leaving because the minimum wage isn't high enough.

Bumping the minimum wage up every year typifies moonbattiness.