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Mass. Deer totals reach new record
- Thread starter HorizontalHunter
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So there's a meeting on whether to open archery season 2 weeks early in some zones, from 6 weeks to 8.. why not expand shotgun season, it's not even 2 full weeks.
Mark from MA
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This is where the state and towns need to think outside of the box to control the population. Setbacks need to be thrown out, and if you have permission on private land the game wardens need to back you, no matter how close you are to the neighbors line.
In CT...no hunting setbacks for Archery, which means when I get permission on two or three acres down there, I can and have set a treestand right near the neighbors property line 10 feet from their kids swingset, WITHOUT the neighbors permission. Your never going to get everyone's permission, and if you have to, the whole thing is a big fail because hunters won't want to deal with the BS. And more than half the time, people have no idea your hunting anyway, they barely go outside when its cold.
But in the towns I hunt, the towns let people know hunting is going on, they inform the people that its needed, and will be tolerated, and not to waste the police time with calling about hunters sitting in trees that aren't on their property.
Now, would I hunt with the kids playing....obviously not, but have the kids gone in for dinner and I go up for the last hour and whack a deer....all the time. Pull into a property, landscapers mowing the lawn...wait til they leave, get up in the tree, deer come out right before dark, whack. It takes exactly 30 seconds or less to kill a deer with a good double lung shot and a sharp broadhead. The rest of the time is just waiting to get your shot.
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The bow hunters will cry "no fair"! They get 6 weeks to fill their tags and when shotgun season opens up they bitch that they can't get a deer because the gun guys are in the woods.
I'm with you......give extra days to the shotgun season!!!!
BlackwaterFence
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I wish hunting was allowed on Sunday's in MA.
Until then, I'll head north to NH
Until then, I'll head north to NH
Mark from MA
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Hey, I'm all for it east of 495.
The bowhunters who bxtch about gun hunters are generally elitist snobs, akin to those Trap guys that have to shoot the Perazzi, and thumb their nose at the guy with the 870 pump.
I've never bitched much about gun hunters, as I'm one of them. However, I do bxtch about some of the idiots in my area, that use a zone 11 tag on a zone 5 deer, but those are poachers, not gun hunters. I'm not big on deer driving and shooting brown it's down 50 pound deer shooting either, but who cares it's legal and up to the hunter.
This is what I don't get, guys bxtching about bowhunters who have 6 weeks? Pick up a fxcking bow! When I wanted extra days, I picked up a bow, learned how to use it, and had an extra six weeks. (when I started it was 3 weeks) Same thing with the muzzleloader. (it was only 3 days extra back then)
Honestly picking up the bow is best thing I ever did to learn how you get deer close, find bedding, feeding areas, really learn how to scout, etc. Learned how to set tree stands to get the best clear shot, etc. It makes you learn to be successful. Now my stands are set up for bow all the time. If I see a deer, it's generally a 20-30 yard shot no matter what I'm holding.....no need for scopes, etc....its almost unfair with a gun.
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I know not all bow hunters are the snobs complaining about the gun hunters. But there are a few out there. Check some if the mass hunting forums out for shits and grins sometime. Monday after Thanksgiving they start bitching...."I'm in my stand with my bow on public land I've been hunting trying to fill my tag and then 3 guys with guns walk through and ruined my hunt wha wha cry and moan"! My response......you've had 6 f***ing weeks with your bow and didn't fill a tag...and now you want to blame the shotgun guys that your gonna eat tag soup. f*** em......you get 6 weeks and the gun guys get two....public land is public land and the gun guys gotta hunt too. Give em 8 weeks and some of em will still cry on the Monday after Thanksgiving.
Mark from MA
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I've heard it all. I tell hard core Bowhunters if you don't like tag soup....pick up the gun, don't blame the gun guys for hunting their season! likewise, gunhunters if your season aint long enough pick up a bow, stop complaining about bowhunters having a longer season, it's way harder to get a deer at 20 yards than it is at 100 shooting a scoped gun. Gun seasons are short for a reason. How'd you like to hunt Illinois or something where it's got a 3 day gun season. Mainly because the herd is so good that's all they need.
The main thing is if you don't like people walking thru your setup, bow or gun. Get some private land permission. Stop hunting public land. That's what I do, that way I know my hunt will never be screwed up, bow or gun. People are too lazy and complacent to get off their ass, get their situation squared away...... but they have no problem complaining. I'm all for private land permission slips in this state, know why most guys aren't because they are fing lazy, they would rather just walk on some guys land that doesn't even know them, getting permission requires work and sacrifice.
I do hunt public land on occasion, but going in I know everything could go totally FUBAR....and expect it will.....other hunters have every right to walk around and hunt like I do. Sometimes, you can use that to your advantage...again, guys are lazy, especially shotgun guys (not all but some) , they aren't in their stands at 4:30 or 5am waiting til first light....they are walking in at 7, pushing deer around that I'm ready for.
We use buckshot for a safety factor, they travel less than buckshot. Most of the shots on drives are on running dear, the reason why setting up a drive safely is so important. We make sure no person is in anyone's shooting lane and every shooter knows where they can shoot.
"The issue lies with the trust we have in everyone shooting, We make sure everyone is instructed where to shoot. All shots on drives are typically at running deer, we just cant trust everyone wont spray and pray with slugs."
Out of curiosity how does buckshot keep people from spraying and praying? Are you saying it's more lethal on running deer so fewer shots are needed?
I'm still hearing all these accounts of "running deer" on drives and I'm under the impression that you all drive deer different than my crew. We take alot of deer with deer drives and they ain't running.....they are just walking by and shotguns with slugs.....and even our muzzle loaders do just fine.
Out of curiosity how does buckshot keep people from spraying and praying? Are you saying it's more lethal on running deer so fewer shots are needed?
I'm still hearing all these accounts of "running deer" on drives and I'm under the impression that you all drive deer different than my crew. We take alot of deer with deer drives and they ain't running.....they are just walking by and shotguns with slugs.....and even our muzzle loaders do just fine.
bdb
NES Member
Not everyone is good at CLEANLY hitting a running deer even at pretty close range. 00 Buck is what, 8 30 caliber pellets. Much higher change of a fatal shot as opposed to a bad shot slug injuring and not killing. At least that's my opinion.
HorizontalHunter
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There is nothing wrong with either load. Both have their place.
Buckshot gets a bad name because people load their guns with it and blast away at deer never taking the time to go to the range and pattern it in their guns. If you don't pattern it in the gun you are using you will have no idea what the true effective range is. I guarantee that it is less, and probably much less, than shooter thinks.
The problem isn't the round but lies with the wingnut behind the trigger.
Bob
Buckshot gets a bad name because people load their guns with it and blast away at deer never taking the time to go to the range and pattern it in their guns. If you don't pattern it in the gun you are using you will have no idea what the true effective range is. I guarantee that it is less, and probably much less, than shooter thinks.
The problem isn't the round but lies with the wingnut behind the trigger.
Bob
The going theory, look at the ballistics, is buckshot travels less and has less mass than a slug. A slug could potentially punch through woods, albeit not accurately. I've done the drives on the south shore where we walk through quietly, the deer hear us, and they just walk in front of us. In these drives we can typically see in excess of 30 yards. On Nantucket if you can see 10 -20 ft your lucky. You crawl, climb and push through the scrub oak screaming ,making noise in a much tighter line than done in open woods. This way the deer are forced out and typically scared and running full out
I totally agree. I've patterned all of my shotguns with many loads of buckshot to see if it's viable for me for use on deer.....and that's why I use slugs. Best I could get was ethical to about 40 yards. Some guys may get better........but id be willing to bet there are many out there that don't even pattern their loads and think they have an ethical shot out to 60 plus yards......and in actuality it's half that.
But....hunting thick scrub like has been mentioned here......it it's tight brush and therefore short range shots go for the buckshot.
M60
NES Member
I hope you're right. Don't need more competition for deer. Truth is, we always do better in Ma., than we do in a week in Maine.
hv55maxx
NES Member
I keep thinking that when people say hunting the Berkshires sucks. Thats where I am and Im happy that most people think it sucks and dont make the trip. Got three this year, so cant be all that bad here.
Man this was my first year since I started hunting that I didn't fill a tag. However it wasn't from a lack of opportunity. I think I was just too selective. Never picked up the bow when a doe walked by or a buck with less than 8 points. OF the bucks I did see that were shooters (2) they never presented an ethical shot... Looking back with hindsight being 20/20 I should have harvested one for the freezer.
I'm not. You can not make the comparison between the effectiveness of the systems. Almost as many deer are harvested during the 2 week shotgun season than the entirety of the archery hunting which includes peak rut activity. Also the safety record for archery hunting is impeccable. Shotgun - not so much unfortunately. There are reasons gun hunters must wear orange - but archery seasons do not require it. Even then people still get shot in accidents every year. I think the seasons are fine right where they are. The only thing I would like to see changed is the ban on hunting on Sunday. Do away with that for all seasons. In over populated areas - maybe open the season earlier.
I drive to RI to hunt because they open archery in Sept. and I can hunt on Sunday.
Makes my point about gun season and why I don't support it's expansion.. Too many wing nuts.
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Bob[/QUOTE]
It's 9 9mm balls actually - assuming you're talking about a 2 3/4 inch shell. But one or two balls hitting a deer is guaranteed not to be a fatal hit. And the penetration of 12 gauge 00 buckshot sucks on large game. I would rather miss clean with a slug then wound with a couple of pellets from 00 buckshot. But the problem in your example is taking unethical shots. Not the shell selection.
It's 9 9mm balls actually - assuming you're talking about a 2 3/4 inch shell. But one or two balls hitting a deer is guaranteed not to be a fatal hit. And the penetration of 12 gauge 00 buckshot sucks on large game. I would rather miss clean with a slug then wound with a couple of pellets from 00 buckshot. But the problem in your example is taking unethical shots. Not the shell selection.
hv55maxx
NES Member
If its a buck, unless its like 50 pounds, I shoot the first then worry about the rest of the season just to get one hung up and in the freezer (also conveniently pleases the wife that im not out "wasting" time [also proves need on purchases
])
If its a buck, unless its like 50 pounds, I shoot the first then worry about the rest of the season just to get one hung up and in the freezer (also conveniently pleases the wife that im not out "wasting" time [also proves need on purchases
Just not how I roll. I don't mind tag soup... I want to harvest the best animal the land I'm on can offer. My MO is to identify that specific deer and hunt that specific animal down. Shooting dinks just doesn't help me reach that goal. If I don't fill a tag - I'm at peace with that. This year I put eyes on those animals but sometimes they zig when you expect them to zag and well - no ethical shot. It's tough going and sometimes the freezer stays empty. You have to be at peace with that if you roll like so.. But I wouldn't like it if it were easy. I would be doing something else if it were. It's a year round activity for me. I was "hunting" last weekend. When opening day arrives - that's when I transition from hunting to harvesting.
M60
NES Member
LOL. Might?
I would like to see them let us use rifles in Western mass. shotguns out here are a joke.
