Mass Compliant Commander-sized 1911s

[Keystone]

Since my LTC application is stewing at the PD, I'm looking more and more into what my first gun will be. Now, obviously, the moment I walk into the store my careful planning will go out the window, but at least I'll have an idea.

High on my short-list is a commander sized 1911. Are there any available other than the SW1911sc or the Para 1911 LTC? The Smith is running a bit expensive, and I'm hoping to eventually start reloading, and have heard complaints about the para denting cases. I've shot the Para before, and shot other S&W 1911s, and enjoyed them both.

Stinks that there are so many shiny 1911 types out there...and so few available here...

 

[Moderator]

S&W makes the best 1911 for the dollar. You get what you pay for, if you buy a cheaper gun you get a cheaper gun.

 

[Pilgrim]

S&W makes the best 1911 for the dollar. You get what you pay for, if you buy a cheaper gun you get a cheaper gun.

yup

 

[Keystone]

I guess no one else makes a commander sized 1911 for us MA folks?

How does the scandium framed gun handle compared to a steel framed one? I've never shot one before...

 

[drgrant]

I guess no one else makes a commander sized 1911 for us MA folks?

Para and S+W are the only two making commanders for the MA
market. (I think Para has the LTC, and SW has the 1911PD).

How does the scandium framed gun handle compared to a steel framed one? I've never shot one before...

Little more "recoil" but not too bad. Carries a lot easier.

-Mike

 

[Moderator]

I guess no one else makes a commander sized 1911 for us MA folks?

Yeah, it's kind of ridiculous that there are 20+ companies making 1911's and there are only 3 or 4 of them making compliant model. The real kicker is that many of them are using the same parts.

How does the scandium framed gun handle compared to a steel framed one? I've never shot one before...

The scandium is much lighter, but as Mike said , there is more felt recoil. Personally I like the S&W stainless models (which is why I own one). Yes they are heavier, but the finish doesn't wear off like blued, plated, or painted models if you plan on carrying it. The felt recoil is reduced by it's weight, and it gives me that "always there" feeling.

 

[Keystone]

Yeah, it's kind of ridiculous that there are 20+ companies making 1911's and there are only 3 or 4 of them making compliant model. The real kicker is that many of them are using the same parts.

Kinda stinks...I'd love a Springfield Armory, but no dice...

The scandium is much lighter, but as Mike said , there is more felt recoil. Personally I like the S&W stainless models (which is why I own one). Yes they are heavier, but the finish doesn't wear off like blued, plated, or painted models if you plan on carrying it. The felt recoil is reduced by it's weight, and it gives me that "always there" feeling.

I wouldn't mind a stainless one, but not so many choices in the commander department, and the lighter gun is attractive. I'm assuming that the Para PXT LTC is similar in handling to the S&W 1911PD, as they both have alloy frames and weigh the same, I've shot the LTC, so it probably is a good comparison (didn't realize at first the LTC was alloy at first).

Thanks for the input, folks!

 

[ochmude]

Colt commanders seem to be fairly easy to find if you're patient. I have one, as do 2 good friends of mine, and we all got them from local shops. They'll definitely set you back more than an S&W, but you get what you pay for IMHO.

 

[TonyDedo]

Since my LTC application is stewing at the PD, I'm looking more and more into what my first gun will be. Now, obviously, the moment I walk into the store my careful planning will go out the window, but at least I'll have an idea.

High on my short-list is a commander sized 1911. Are there any available other than the SW1911sc or the Para 1911 LTC? The Smith is running a bit expensive, and I'm hoping to eventually start reloading, and have heard complaints about the para denting cases. I've shot the Para before, and shot other S&W 1911s, and enjoyed them both.

Stinks that there are so many shiny 1911 types out there...and so few available here...

darklupine, I'm going to tell you something I wish someone had told me when I was shopping for my first guns:

You get what you pay for, and a couple extra bucks spent on a quality gun is well worth it.

I'm not saying you need to go out and find a $2000+ Les Baer or Wilson. But if you try to go the super cheap route, you're going to end up with a gun that will make you unhappy.

Because a cheap gun going to give you trouble, and you're going to struggle with it and get frustrated; that's an awful situation for a new gun owner to be in. You want a gun that's going to run flawless so you can focus your attention on learning to shoot better, not fixing your gun.

As an instructor, the most disruptive thing I see on the line (besides a bad attitude) is a malfunctioning gun. It brings the whole learning process to a grinding halt and wrecks any focus or concentration the shooter had going.

So eventually you're going to sell the cheap gun (at a loss) and buy the gun you should have in the first place. But it's going to cost you a lot more that if you had just bought the right gun the first time around.

If you can't afford an entry level, quality 1911 (like an S&W), then you can't afford a 1911 right now. That's just a fact. Wait a little while longer until you have the money, or (better yet) buy yourself a .22 now that you can train with until you can afford the .45. In the long run, that will be a more productive approach.

 

[fbirdquik6]

darklupine, I'm going to tell you something I wish someone had told me when I was shopping for my first guns:

You get what you pay for, and a couple extra bucks spent on a quality gun is well worth it.

I'm not saying you need to go out and find a $2000+ Les Baer or Wilson. But if you try to go the super cheap route, you're going to end up with a gun that will make you unhappy.

Because a cheap gun going to give you trouble, and you're going to struggle with it and get frustrated; that's an awful situation for a new gun owner to be in. You want a gun that's going to run flawless so you can focus your attention on learning to shoot better, not fixing your gun.

As an instructor, the most disruptive thing I see on the line (besides a bad attitude) is a malfunctioning gun. It brings the whole learning process to a grinding halt and wrecks any focus or concentration the shooter had going.

So eventually you're going to sell the cheap gun (at a loss) and buy the gun you should have in the first place. But it's going to cost you a lot more that if you had just bought the right gun the first time around.

If you can't afford an entry level, quality 1911 (like an S&W), then you can't afford a 1911 right now. That's just a fact. Wait a little while longer until you have the money, or (better yet) buy yourself a .22 now that you can train with until you can afford the .45. In the long run, that will be a more productive approach.

I disagree, I feel that the cheaper S&W 1911s are superior to Para 1911's. I find that price is not an indicator of quality, and that its much more important to do your research and find out as much as you possibly can about a product before making a purchase.

 

[vellnueve]

A good Para is every bit as good as a good SW1911. The trick is finding a good one.

 

[TonyDedo]

I disagree, I feel that the cheaper S&W 1911s are superior to Para 1911's. I find that price is not an indicator of quality, and that its much more important to do your research and find out as much as you possibly can about a product before making a purchase.

That's not what I'm trying to say - I'm not commenting on specific brands or models.

What I'm trying to say is that for a first gun, you need to take care to get a quality gun that functions well, and that you're happy with. Don't scrape the bottom of the barrel for a cheap gun, because it will give you trouble in the long run.

What constitutes a "cheap" vs "quality" gun, I leave up to you.

 

[ochmude]

That's not what I'm trying to say - I'm not commenting on specific brands or models.

What I'm trying to say is that for a first gun, you need to take care to get a quality gun that functions well, and that you're happy with. Don't scrape the bottom of the barrel for a cheap gun, because it will give you trouble in the long run.

What constitutes a "cheap" vs "quality" gun, I leave up to you.

I completely agree, and I've learned that the hard way multiple times. Buy cheap = buy twice.

 

[TonyDedo]

Buy cheap = buy twice.

Good line!

 

[cmdwolf]

I really like my sw 1911. There are other choices however, but of course it is not cheap. You could by the a fitted frame from Caspian, fusion, etc. Remsport is local, and at a later time have a good smith put it together for you. John from Remsport is very capable but there are others in MA too.
I just had John build one for me and so far I am very happy with it.


my 2cents.

 

[Keystone]

darklupine, I'm going to tell you something I wish someone had told me when I was shopping for my first guns:

You get what you pay for, and a couple extra bucks spent on a quality gun is well worth it.

I'm not saying you need to go out and find a $2000+ Les Baer or Wilson. But if you try to go the super cheap route, you're going to end up with a gun that will make you unhappy.

Because a cheap gun going to give you trouble, and you're going to struggle with it and get frustrated; that's an awful situation for a new gun owner to be in. You want a gun that's going to run flawless so you can focus your attention on learning to shoot better, not fixing your gun.

As an instructor, the most disruptive thing I see on the line (besides a bad attitude) is a malfunctioning gun. It brings the whole learning process to a grinding halt and wrecks any focus or concentration the shooter had going.

So eventually you're going to sell the cheap gun (at a loss) and buy the gun you should have in the first place. But it's going to cost you a lot more that if you had just bought the right gun the first time around.

If you can't afford an entry level, quality 1911 (like an S&W), then you can't afford a 1911 right now. That's just a fact. Wait a little while longer until you have the money, or (better yet) buy yourself a .22 now that you can train with until you can afford the .45. In the long run, that will be a more productive approach.

As this is my first gun (to own, I've shot plenty before), I'm hoping to get something solid. It'll probably come down to availability, and how much I can scrounge together. I'd like to get the S&W, but it might end up with me having a gun I can't afford to feed for a while...I really like shooting 1911s, they just fit right. I'm looking for something fun to shoot, that will last, that if I decided to carry wouldn't be too much of a beast. I'm also looking at the Ruger GP100, which costs half as much as the 1911PD, but weighs twice as much. I might be looking for a gun that does too much. Shooter, possible carry, maybe at some point action shooting...

Most of the complaints I've seen about Para's revolve around their double stack LDA type guns. Their single actions seem to be pretty good. Not S&W quality, but good. From what I can tell, the LTC runs $200 cheaper than the 1911PD. Compared to the price of the S&W, $200 isn't all that much, but that's my utility bills for the month. I don't have my LTC yet, so I still have time to save....anyone know what the 1911PD is going for? I'm seeing ~ $850, is that about right?

 

[45collector]

Probably a little more for a NIB PD.

My first 1911 was a Colt and I still have it. I would suggest saving your money for a Colt Commander when one comes your way. But I know what it's like to stare at your brand spankin' new LTC and not have a handgun on your hip. Go with the S&W. I had one and it's a very nice 1911 specimen. Sold it to fund another project, but would have kept it if it weren't for the AR bug.

 

[mac1911]

I might be looking for a gun that does too much. Shooter, possible carry, maybe at some point action shooting...

for me that would be 1911 full size.

Also when you do get your LTC borrow friends and family members guns and holsters that they might have. Wear them around your house for a few days. You will find very fast guns/holsters that just dont work for you.

Im left handed so I like guns with ambi controls.

If I where to be able to start from the begining

1st 22lr revolver target model for plinking and skill developement

2nd for carry small hammerless revolver and a decent pocket holster. Being LH I have always shyed away from revolvers. Now I would love to find a small 38/357 snubby hammerless for a price im happy to pay. When I didnt want one they seemed to be plentiful and less exspensive.

3. 1911 for not so deep concealment. For me the 1911 comes into my hand and up to target, points well with out much manipulation. I saved a while longer and bought the 1911 performance center model, thinking I was going to do some competitve shooting. Well I traded that for a Browning XT trap gun which I shoot a lot more.

4. what I ended up with as a carry gun. S&W 4013tsw its compact, a tad lighter than the 1911. I like the DA/SA set and ambi safty. Also eats everything I have ever put in the mag. Not a single FTF,FTF,FTE. Now trying to find a LH draw IWB holster that I like has been a chalenge.

Good luck, dont let the "I WANT ONE NOW" syndrom get you. Save and buy a better value gun. Yes there are a few brand 1911 selling new for 700 or less. Believe me when you try to sell or trade this gun down the line you will be sorry.
I traded in my SW1911PC at kittery trade post 3 years ago. I paid 1350 cash shot it for a year KTP gave me 1100 for a trade twards my 1500.00 XT. I was shocked I was ready to take a beating on it. I "WANTED" a trap gun bad. Should have saved longer and kept the 1911????

 

[Keystone]

Also when you do get your LTC borrow friends and family members guns and holsters that they might have. Wear them around your house for a few days. You will find very fast guns/holsters that just dont work for you.

Short on gun owning friends around here (girlfriend has a S&W 659), and my only gun owning friend back home in PA moved to Florida for school. My shooting experience has been more broad than deep, so I've had my hands on a lot of things to try and have a general idea of what I like. I like 1911's, the single stack .45 frame fits oh so nicely, and they point like a dream. You get the boom and heavy push of the .45ACP round, but it doesn't try and rip your arm off. I find .45 more controllable out of a 1911 than, say, 9mm out of a S&W M&P. If I could find a Browning High Power for a reasonable price, I might be tempted by that, they are great guns and 9mm is more plentiful and cheaper..but that can come later. I know most polymer framed pistols I've shot weren't my thing, though the Glock G20 was fun, if it weren't for the fact that it felt like I was holding a brick, and the SA XDs were nice as well. I like wheelguns, and may end up with a GP100 or 686, depending. Maybe I'll look into a S&W 1911 with a full size frame, might be a bit cheaper, and I'm young and dumb, so who cares about an extra 11 ounces and 3/4 inch hanging from your belt? For my first gun, I'd like a tank...something that I can shoot and shoot and shoot and not worry about. The picky guns can come later. As for a .22...it's on my shortlist. They can be great fun for experienced shooters, and awesome for new shooters. I spent an afternoon with my friends shooting a ruger mkii off a porch...had to be careful to walk around because of the brass, we went through a box and a half of the federal 550 bulk packs, and had a couple of girls fire their first shots. That said, what can I say, I want a gun that I can actually FEEL when I fire it.

I guess it'll all come down to what I can find when I decide it is purchase time.

 

[Keystone]

http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=77172

Speak of the devils...if I had my permit and could talk myself into spending the money...

 

[mac1911]

sounds to me like you have your mind made up....Full size 1911.

 

[Keystone]

sounds to me like you have your mind made up....Full size 1911.

My mind is made up every 15 minutes or so, and will be until a money/gun transaction has occurred I'll probably end up bouncing between a few stores to see who has what in stock, and if I see something I like, I'll get it, if not, I'll order something. Can't beat that "In your hands right now" feel, though.

I was really just looking for options on commander sized 1911s on this thread, but got a bunch of other info, so it's all good.

 

[mac1911]

I hear yeah, I got a C&R license and my mind was made up by the minutes when deciding what to get....ended up with 2 CZ82 9x18 pistols. My next decision is another Garand from the CMP Service grade or CMP special hmmm. For me there is something just not right about a commander size 1911.

If you are considering a lesser priced 1911 such as the Auto Ordinance 1911. From what I have read and researched a little is the slide and frame are investment cast in spain, shipped to Caspian arms for machine and assembled by A-O???? Seems to be a lot of shuffle. Also they say made in America should be assembled in America.

investment casting is still the better of the casting methods from what I have read.

 

[beantown]

It really comes down to what you want to do with it first. Shoot a ton of lead downrange or carry it every waking minute. If you want to put 5000 rounds through it the first few months then get an S&W SS 1911 fullsize. If you want to carry it every minute then it gets dicier because the fullsize S&W is heavy even in a Milt Sparks VMII. The 1911PD is a good bit lighter to carry but in that size the Colt Commander really seems to carry well, particularly in an MS VMII sized for it and shoots almost as comfortably as the fullsize S&W where the 1911PD kicks a bit more (not a heck of a lot, just a bit but it adds up over a couple of hundred rounds at a time). Even if you carry a lot I would avoid the really small 1911's like the Colt Defender because they kick too much for extended shooting sessions and it is distracting. What you also might consider is the Glock 19 since it is a mid-size pistol that carries quite well and you can shoot it all day in 9mm and come back tomorrow and start all over again whether you had time to clean it or not. It isn't a 1911 but it has a lot of good things going for it. I own all of these plus a few and when I'm going to the range I generally take either the full size S&W or the Glock 19 because they're really fun to shoot. If I'm going out it is generally an S&W 5 shot airlite in 38SP or a Sig 232 in .380 because either one just disappears on a decent belt.

There is a lot of fun stuff out there but like everyone else has been saying, don't buy junk. If you really have the carry bug and you want to watch your cash I'd probably go for a Glock 19 as a great all around pistol that will do either job very well. If you have to have just one 1911 I'd try for a Colt Commander or get the full size S&W 1911 and plan on getting another gun for every day carry when you get the cash.

Just my $.02

 

[Bugs100]

Go see steve at at the Shooters Box in Malden. When I wanted a S&W PD I stopped in to see him. If you give him a down payment he will order you one at a good price.

 

[Keystone]

It really comes down to what you want to do with it first. Shoot a ton of lead downrange or carry it every waking minute.

And thus is the quandary...I want it all Probably will end up with multiple guns...

If you have to have just one 1911 ...

Is that possible? Thought they were like potato chips

Thanks for the tips. I'm not sure about glocks, and if I get one, it'll be in something other than 9mm. They lack something that makes them interesting to me on their own....but I know a lot of guys and gals really love them, so I'll leave them for those folks. Maybe someday I'll have one of everything

If anyone wants to make a donation to the Darklupine Gets A Gun Foundation, it is an unregistered 402b(r) charity. I might even let you shoot it

 

[MJ1]

Where is this list ?

 

[Karmavore]

12 years....gotta be a record...

 

[Knob Creek]

Have a Gunsite S&W 1911. One my favorite 1911s. Carried it for many years. And besides, Jesse Stone uses one:

 

[magoo]

I think Colt Defenders are mass ok