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Mass AWB ar15 question

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sierrahotel

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For a person with an LTC Class A, who is not in possession (or conspiring to be) of any AR15 upper receiver parts or a removable stock...

Is a post pan receiver with collapsible stock buffer tube legal in MA as long as the actual stock is removed?

Thanks for the help.
 
Good luck with that. Since AWB prosecutions are patently rare... there is very little case law to go on.

-Mike
 
Under state law, if I am not mistaken, a lone lower receiver without an upper is not a firearm since it cannot discharge a shot. An interesting realm has been entered.

However, under Federal defintions, as I understand them, some would argue that you are in possesion of an assault weapon. Others would argue that you are in "constructive possession" of an assault weapon. Both arguments include the phrase "assault weapon."

This could be a very costly experiment. I would stay far away from that.
 
There are all sorts of AR-15 pistols out there that fit the description you have laid out.

The issues with removing the stock IMHO, The overall length of the gun has to be X inches with a Y inch barrel to conform to federal law. I believe X=26, and Y=18, but don't quote me. Removing the stock without extending the barrel moves you into SBR territory, and without the proper stamps you don't want one anywhere near you.

The other concern I have is that once you change the firing position of the weapon, from something that was intended to be shoulder fired to something that could be interpreted as a handgun, you have opened a whole other can of worms.

If the lower has already been declared/constructed/transferred/sold as a rifle, and you start playing with lengths and configurations that could be deemed anything but a rifle under any definition, then you have another issue.

IANAL and this is way outside of what little knowledge I have on the subject, but tread lightly and watch out for constructive possession.
 
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Glockaholic said:
There are all sorts of AR-15 pistols out there that fit the description you have laid out.

The issues with removing the stock IMHO, The overall length of the gun has to be X inches with a Y inch barrel to conform to federal law. I believe X=26, and Y=18, but don't quote me. Removing the stock without extending the barrel moves you into SBR territory

The other concern I have is that once you change the firing position of the weapon, from something that was intended to be shoulder fired to something that could be interpreted as a handgun, you have opened a whole other can of worms.

If the lower has already been declared/constructed/transferred/sold as a rifle, and you start playing with lengths and configurations that could be deemed anything but a rifle under any definition, then you have another issue.

IANAL and this is way outside of what little knowledge I have on the subject, but tread lightly and watch out for constructive possession.
Click to expand...

To add to that:

If assembled as a pistol without it being registered, it's illegal under Federal Law.

If assembled as an SBR without it being registered, it's illegal under Federal Law.

If assembled as a rifle without changing the stock/buffertube, it's illegal under MA Law.

So, theoretically of course, this notional entity is exercising dominion and control over several objects that cannot be lawfully assembled as a firearm/rifle unless several steps have taken place.
 
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I am asking because I need a place to store it as I move. Does it make a difference if the receiver is just being stored temporarily in Massachusetts? All other parts have been shipped to a non ban state (several hundred miles away) ahead of time. The receiver will never be built into a firing weapon in Massachusetts.

Thanks
 
Remove the buffer tube at the minimum. The stock can be fitted to the tube pretty quick so there is a stronger argument, some may claim, that it is readily assembled into banned configuration. The buffer tube however, one could also argue, is not as readily assembled and placed into a banned configuration.

Ultimately, if it were me, I would take the buffer and stock and get rid of them. It's more of a headache then anything else and I am the kind of person that stays up at night worrying about the smallest thing so I would just get rid of them. If you move to a free state, they are easily replacable.

That's just my two cents though.
 
Leadfarmer said:
Remove the buffer tube at the minimum. The stock can be fitted to the tube pretty quick so there is a stronger argument, some may claim, that it is readily assembled into banned configuration. The buffer tube however, one could also argue, is not as readily assembled and placed into a banned configuration.

Ultimately, if it were me, I would take the buffer and stock and get rid of them. It's more of a headache then anything else and I am the kind of person that stays up at night worrying about the smallest thing so I would just get rid of them. If you move to a free state, they are easily replacable.

That's just my two cents though.
Click to expand...

Or, simply remove the pistol grip and there goes the "two or more" "evil features" definition.
 
Having had to pin and or change stocks on my rifles prior to moving to MA. I'd say just pin it and not worry about it.
 
Let's start over.

Rather than start removing pieces and inviting the possibility of federal violations, leave it exactly as it is. Don't remove anything; don't pin anything. Just consider its current legality with regard to Massachusetts.

Under the Massachusetts statutes a lower receiver without a barrel or other upper receiver parts is not a firearm, and thus cannot be an "assault weapon". If you had a complete upper, you'd definitely have to worry about constructive possession, since all you'd have to do in order to make it a firearm would be to slap on the upper. If it were me, I'd quit there and not worry about it.

For those who prefer to worry, there is Massachusetts case law holding that an incomplete firearm, incapable of firing any projectile, can still be held to be a firearm. The firearm under consideration there was a handgun missing (or with a broken) a firing pin, carried in public by someone without an LTC. (IIRC, he was also ineligible for an LTC due to a criminal record.) The court held that, since replacing the defective part would be a simple task, the defendant was still required to have an LTC to possess it legally. The fact that you don't intend to carry the receiver, only store it, combined with your possession of a valid LTC and the difference in price and skill required to install a firing pin versus an upper, make this case fairly irrelevant to your situation. (Just my non-lawyer opinion)

Keep it stored and keep your mouth shut. The only way the authorities would ever know of its existence would be if they got a search warrant on some other grounds to search, in which case you'd already be in trouble, since they'd treat it as an "assault weapon" regardless of its condition.

Ken
 
KMaurer said:
Let's start over.

Under the Massachusetts statutes a lower receiver without a barrel or other upper receiver parts is not a firearm, and thus cannot be an "assault weapon". If you had a complete upper, you'd definitely have to worry about constructive possession, since all you'd have to do in order to make it a firearm would be to slap on the upper. If it were me, I'd quit there and not worry about it.


Ken
Click to expand...

Can you provide me a link to the statutes? Thanks.
 
I wouldn't worry about the pistol example either. In the pistol case the felon POS was in possesion/carrying a complete firearm with a broken peice. His criminal defense attorney attempted a legal argument that somehow it was no longer a firearm because a part costing a buck-fifty was broken. The judge saw through the BS argument and handed down the ruling.

The lower without an upper in your possesion is a far cry from that example. Just be aware that with three forbidden features, it looks like a duck. If you can live with that go for it. I would tend to lean towards a more conservative course of action.

Taking the buffer tube off (3-5 minutes labor) does not increase your exposure to jeapordy but could make it easier to explain in the case of inadvertant exposure. A life-time-appointed-liberal-activist judge in this state could decide that a post ban lower with three forbidden features is an assault weapon. Stranger things have happened. In that case, the 3-5 minutes would have been worth it.
 
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thanks for the help. unfortunately all my firearms have been destroyed in a tragic boating accident so this is no longer an issue.
 
That stinks. Sorry to hear that.

Everyone had great imput on this thread so I'm sure you have formulated your course of action.

Best of luck with the move.
 

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