Mass an Open Carry State?

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There is no law against it, if that is what you are asking. I've seen people open carry before in MA with no ill effects. Once it was in a breakfast joint owned by a cop and his wife. NBD.

So when are you going to OC in Springfield, Worcester, Boston, Brookline, Newton, or Cambridge and then follow up with a report?

[crickets]

Didn't think so. You've been harping on this forever but everyone here knows you don't actually have the stones to risk your license doing it, just like everyone else here, so give it a rest already, instead of pitching dumb ideas to newbies.

-Mike
 
And it almost happened last year in CA where unloaded open carry is legal and practiced by many as a means to protest the CCW restrictions in many communities.

Yup, and it's been reintroduced...

CURRENT BILL STATUS

MEASURE : A.B. No. 144
AUTHOR(S) : Portantino.
TOPIC : Firearms.
HOUSE LOCATION : ASM

TITLE : An act to amend Sections 7574.14 and 7582.2 of the
Business and Professions Code, and to amend Sections
626.9, 16520, 17510, 25595, 25605, and 29805 of, to add
Sections 17040, 17295, and 25590 to, and to add Chapter
6 (commencing with Section 26350) to Division 5 of Title
4 of Part 6 of, the Penal Code, relating to firearms.

BILL HISTORY - 2011

Feb. 3 Referred to Com. on PUB. S.
Jan. 14 From printer. May be heard in committee February 13.
Jan. 13 Read first time. To print.

http://leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/asm/ab_0101-0150/ab_144_bill_20110113_introduced.html
 
So when are you going to OC in Springfield, Worcester, Boston, Brookline, Newton, or Cambridge and then follow up with a report?

[crickets]

Didn't think so. You've been harping on this forever but everyone here knows you don't actually have the stones to risk your license doing it, just like everyone else here, so give it a rest already, instead of pitching dumb ideas to newbies.
Exactly.
 
They have videos on YouTube of people OC in CA and the cops are there very soon searching their weapons.

I don't think it's very smart, unless it's announced publicly that it is ok. But that won't happen ether.
 
What if there's bears in the street?

Bears in the street, what do you mean by that. I've got Bears in my yard and on my back deck, I don't need to look for them on the street. I just look at them as I sit on my Lazy Boy in the living room with the cross hairs on them.

(yes I have shot off of my deck) [smile] [smile] [smile]
 
If open carry incidents were to make it into the news and it was made clear that it's legal, I think the legislature would be very tempted to ban open carry.

So how would that really change our current situation, it's illegal in practice since a COP would probably rescind your license under the "unsuitability" clause in this state, so whether the legislature makes it illegal or not doesn't matter.

I guess I'd rather challenge it and take it to the SCOTUS if need be, at least then it could be framed as an infringement on their 2A rights, allowing a good lawyer to both attack chief's discretion and open carry in Mass (since it isn't illegal in the MGLs), plus it could be used to challenge the whole FOD/LTC A/LTC B fiasco that is our licensing since LTC B is a license to carry, just not concealed..

Granted, finding a suitable and willing client would be the hard part...
 
So how would that really change our current situation, it's illegal in practice since a COP would probably rescind your license under the "unsuitability" clause in this state, so whether the legislature makes it illegal or not doesn't matter.

I guess I'd rather challenge it and take it to the SCOTUS if need be, at least then it could be framed as an infringement on their 2A rights, allowing a good lawyer to both attack chief's discretion and open carry in Mass (since it isn't illegal in the MGLs), plus it could be used to challenge the whole FOD/LTC A/LTC B fiasco that is our licensing since LTC B is a license to carry, just not concealed..

Granted, finding a suitable and willing client would be the hard part...

I think it's substantially different because a revocation for open carrying would be very unlikely to survive a federal court challenge. There are a couple of other really good issues involved OTHER than a chief's discretion infringing upon a fundamental right. That's actually low on the list.

Recruiting a willing plaintiff for this type of test would in fact be pretty easy. It might actually be harder to goad the relevant chief into revoking the license if they sensed the trap. That said, while this exercise might be interesting and a fun opportunity to stick it to the man, it would ultimately be pointless. It would divert resources from projects that need to be address and may very likely result in the legislature banning open carry which they could do and which would be very difficult to challenge.

I'd rather see open carry continue to be legal because that helps up protect guys like Landry and other who are hassled due to unintentional displaying or printing of their firearm. We lose open carry because of in-your-face activism, we lose the ability to protect guys like this in the future.
 
Another thing to consider is that the status quo is, in many respects, [STRIKE]not that bad[/STRIKE] could be worse. There are few venues where carry is prohibited by law; unless you have a POS for your issung authority (I'm lucky in that respect), the hoops are not that high or tiny; a permit issued in town A is valid in all the others ( no stupid town restrictions, like Boston and knife blade length).

Not to debate the propperness of licensing....it is what it is, and persons in a 1/10 of the population minority need the pragmatisim to deal with the situation they're in...but since everyone is clueless about the laws, most never think of them. The non-carriers are, for the most part, completely unaware of who has what, where and when.

Note: the above applies to the PRM
 
[rofl]
I know someone who's restriction was that he had to open carry. Yeah, he was hassled by the cops now and then, but he could not conceal so that's what he had to deal with. The COP knew this would happen to him and was probably LOL when he put that restriction on the LTC.

Hahaha[rofl][rofl]
 
I find it more than repulsive that any LEO would take action against any licensee for open carry in MA. They carry openly, in uniform and out of uniform......they are no better than you or I as much as many of them might think they are.

Why isn't an out of uniform cop deemed just as unsuitable as a chief might deem anyone else? The double standard is illegal and dispicable.

Aren't cops "always at work"?
The only difference between them and you is: they have a have a badge.
 
So when are you going to OC in Springfield, Worcester, Boston, Brookline, Newton, or Cambridge and then follow up with a report?

[crickets]

Didn't think so. You've been harping on this forever but everyone here knows you don't actually have the stones to risk your license doing it, just like everyone else here, so give it a rest already, instead of pitching dumb ideas to newbies.

-Mike

+100000

Can we have an "Amen" on this!

AMEN!!
 
Open Carry Demonstrations work in states that have case law confirming their state constitution's declaration of right to carry arms.

It has been used to convince legislators to pass reasonable Concealed Carry laws (e.g. Ohio; and they are working on it in Wisconsin).

Today, in Massachusetts, case law says that there is NO individual right to even keep arms. << Commonwealth v. Davis 369 Mass. 886, 343 N.E.2nd 847 (1976) >>

This decision is clearly contradicted by McDondald (and Heller), but this hasn't been litigated yet.

Open carry, even by a sympathetic defendant, is not likely a good test case to overturn Davis.

--jcr
 
This is a very interesting discussion. Has anyone successfully used the fact that it isn't illegal in a defense for being jammed up on suitability charges? Seems like it could be an effective defense if the reason your license is revoked, is due to being caught "printing", or having the wind blow your shirt up, etc.
 
This is a very interesting discussion. Has anyone successfully used the fact that it isn't illegal in a defense for being jammed up on suitability charges? Seems like it could be an effective defense if the reason your license is revoked, is due to being caught "printing", or having the wind blow your shirt up, etc.

Chiefs have absolutely unrestricted power to deem you unsuitable. You could get pulled over in a rental car with a light out, and have your LTC revoked. Or get spotted walking down the street wearing Berkenstocks. Or smoke the incorrect brand of cigarettes.

Yes, you can appeal it....but at what cost? Most people don't have the scratch to take this crap to court.
 
Chiefs have absolutely unrestricted power to deem you unsuitable. You could get pulled over in a rental car with a light out, and have your LTC revoked. Or get spotted walking down the street wearing Berkenstocks. Or smoke the incorrect brand of cigarettes.

Yes, you can deny it....but at what cost? Most people don't have the scratch to take this crap to court.

I see what you mean. This is definitely a crappy system, and unless you have really deep pockets, in most cases it sounds like it would not even be worth pursuing in court.
 
This is a very interesting discussion. Has anyone successfully used the fact that it isn't illegal in a defense for being jammed up on suitability charges? Seems like it could be an effective defense if the reason your license is revoked, is due to being caught "printing", or having the wind blow your shirt up, etc.

You don't have to do something illegal in order for a chief to decide you are unsuitable. The law gives him the discretion revoke an LTC.
 
This is a very interesting discussion. Has anyone successfully used the fact that it isn't illegal in a defense for being jammed up on suitability charges? Seems like it could be an effective defense if the reason your license is revoked, is due to being caught "printing", or having the wind blow your shirt up, etc.

Talk with Joe Landers. I'm sure that he could fill you in here. [thinking]

You aren't "charged" with being unsuitable . . . they just revoke your LTC. If appealed, the judge just rubber-stamps the chief's position and you're toast.
 
Open Carry Demonstrations work in states that have case law confirming their state constitution's declaration of right to carry arms.

It has been used to convince legislators to pass reasonable Concealed Carry laws (e.g. Ohio; and they are working on it in Wisconsin).

Today, in Massachusetts, case law says that there is NO individual right to even keep arms. << Commonwealth v. Davis 369 Mass. 886, 343 N.E.2nd 847 (1976) >>

This decision is clearly contradicted by McDondald (and Heller), but this hasn't been litigated yet.

Open carry, even by a sympathetic defendant, is not likely a good test case to overturn Davis.

--jcr

Don't ruin the thread with FACTS.[smile]
 
I would go so far to say that in the Boston metro there seems to be a law against guys having a spine, or a set.

OC, that'll be the day. (If and when that day comes, I'll come back from the Mars colony and join the first OC march through the state.)
 
get a fake badge and hang it from your belt. no one will question you.

there was a fat dude walking around campus the other day with a leather jacket and white shirt. He had a gun and a badge on his belt. He wasnt driving a police car, but everyone just assumed he was a cop.
 
get a fake badge and hang it from your belt. no one will question you.

there was a fat dude walking around campus the other day with a leather jacket and white shirt. He had a gun and a badge on his belt. He wasnt driving a police car, but everyone just assumed he was a cop.

so what youre telling me is.....there actually might me a use for those "concealed carry permit holder" badges?...[laugh]
 
I think the chance of someone calling the cops on you is little to none...but I guess it could happen..I have Open Carried countless times in Enfield, CT..right on border and filled with people from Mass...never once a call to 911...People really don't care..they truly don't....There is always a chance though..I had an encounter in Bloomfield, CT but the police were fine..asked for permit..never disarmed me and let me be on my way...CT/MASS are both liberal places..I don't that much of a difference in the people..
 
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I think the chance of someone calling the cops on you is little to none...but I guess it could happen.
I met a fellow who was carrying in an OWB belt holster. His bomber jacket rode up a big, exposing the lower part of his holster. This was in the Galleria Mall in Cambridge. He was quickly surrounded by 4 Cambridge police officers who were not very happy.
 
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