Marlin didn't fix my rifle, what are my options?

[TruthTellers]

is the barrel pressing on the stock? see if you can do the dollar bill clearance check. see if tightening the screws that hold the action to the stock effect the clearance, or maybe try a shim to float the barrel a bit? any side pull from a sling?
If it didn't have a tube magazine, one of these might be worth trying https://limbsaver.com/collections/firearms-gear/products/sharpshooter-x-ring-barrel-dampener

I didn't think to do the dollar bill check because the rifle has a tubular magazine and figured that it was asinine to do it. Just tried it on left and right sides of the barrel, there's one spot at the end of the forearm that's touching, so I'll file that down. If there's any part of the stock touching the tube magazine I would not know because I can't get a dollar bill into that tight a spot.

 

[TruthTellers]

I was a little confused by your post as I read it as you had your uncle install a scope and it shot poorly?
Ok so if you where getting 2" groups at 15 yards.
That's around 12 minutes of angle.
Im guessing you could improve on that.

So OP when you get time to test it again let us know
How you make out.
Get off the wooden blocks and onto a nice heavy sand bag. Rest the stock just forward of the trigger group and place it on the bag in the same spot shot after shot.
Pick one of the known decent accuracy ammo.
From your list aguila or cci standard is most likely the better.

Also what do you think is acceptable accuracy of 22lr ammo? What would acceptable accuracy of a $200 rifle be. For a reference KIDD sells a match grade barrel with a 1 moa accuracy guaranty at 50 yards for around $200 for just the barrel. I can only assume this would be with match ammo.

So shoot 3 5 shot groups with the Mossberg and 3 5 shot groups with the marlin and post a picture.

Weaver rings and bases have really gone to Crap over the years. If you decide to re mount the scope try a nice 1 piece scope base.
The EGW is not bad and I have a DIP on my Rascal and its well made.

It's off subject but it's amazing how a good set of bases and rings help everything work out. For me Weaver had its time but I feel that has long passed.

We decided to remove the scope when we were having problems and I've kept it off ever since.

Don't have any sandbags, I'll buy some bags of rice on sale.

I don't think 1 inch at 25 yards is unreasonable with any .22 over $200. I just tested a .32 H&R handload at 25 yards from a freaking chamber insert for a shotgun with fixed front and rear sights and got 1.25 inches with a 3 shot group. If I mounted a scope and used a rest, I could probably make that 1 inch.

Just the fact that I was able to do that with a rifled steel tube in a break action shotgun gives me little faith in either Marlin, the .22 LR cartridge, or both.

 

[Broc]

Reminds me of this video. You can decide if it is worth the headache to deal with them.

[video=youtube_share;FUOrbeQNi2E]http://youtu.be/FUOrbeQNi2E[/video]

Wow, thanks for posting that.

 

[mac1911]

We decided to remove the scope when we were having problems and I've kept it off ever since.

Don't have any sandbags, I'll buy some bags of rice on sale.

I don't think 1 inch at 25 yards is unreasonable with any .22 over $200. I just tested a .32 H&R handload at 25 yards from a freaking chamber insert for a shotgun with fixed front and rear sights and got 1.25 inches with a 3 shot group. If I mounted a scope and used a rest, I could probably make that 1 inch.

Just the fact that I was able to do that with a rifled steel tube in a break action shotgun gives me little faith in either Marlin, the .22 LR cartridge, or both.

1. You can buy sand cheap. You can use old Jean pant legs and sew a bag out of them.
Rice sucks for a rest.
2. Compare the B.C. of the HR 32 bullet and the B.C. of a 22lr bullet.
3. "Accuracy" with a 22lr on the cheap end is a tough battle.
Currently from your info your marlin is shooting 12 moa which agree sucks. Your goal is to get that down to 3.8 moa or 1" at 25 yards.
Interested in seeing your results.

If marlin won't make you happy let me know I,like buying project guns.
Note
The B.C. of the hornady bullets I looked at are not great so that may not be a huge factor.

I would be interested what marlin actual uses as acceptable targeting and accuracy standard for their rifles. I would at least think they grab 10 or so random rifles from a production run and test them a,little bit?

Add another note: generally the quickest way to loose accuracy with 22lr is add velocity. There is a reason the match ammo runs 1050 fps. Also same reason why 22 shorts tend to be more accurate. At least until outside forces start to play in.

 

[pastera]

My savage has a micro-grooved barrel and it abhors hyper velocity ammo - standard velocity and it out shoots me all day (not hard to do) but with high velocity stuff it is all over the target at 50 yards.

OP - Take Mac1911's advice: get some standard velocity, a sand bag and tune in the action screw torque

 

[mac1911]

My savage has a micro-grooved barrel and it abhors hyper velocity ammo - standard velocity and it out shoots me all day (not hard to do) but with high velocity stuff it is all over the target at 50 yards.

OP - Take Mac1911's advice: get some standard velocity, a sand bag and tune in the action screw torque

If you don't have a torque wrench
1. For slotted screws if you can fit a quarter in the slot use that between thumb and for finger. (Older folks and 22lr guns Will remember/have these. )That's as tight as it needs to be. Also it does not hurt to back them off 1/2 turn when putting them up for a period of time.
2. Use a screw driver just big enough to fit the fastener again between thumb and for finger is about all the grip you need
3. Allen key wrench hold it by the short end again between thumb and index finger

For a reference my 1903a3 shoots its best with even torque on both screws to 25" pounds.
Have fun...

 

[mac1911]

also 22lr have a very real tendency to need to foul up that bore. Even when you change different brands,types,lot #s your barrel is still going to need some fouling time this could take 10 shots it might take 50. Add in a new barrel and it might take 100 shots before it settles/fouls/breaks in.

I don't get out to the range often anymore so I basically substitute NES/Online chatter for my lack of range time.

I recently brought back a 50 plus year old pellet gun to life. I was a bit worried by the bore condition and some "marks" in the bore.

To give you an idea how shooting the rifle can improve its accuracy here is a picture of my first ten shots through the pellet gun 5 pumps same pellets

I decided to just keep plinking at the large pieces of sidewalk chalk then after every 10-15 shots I would put a few on paper. Ahh starting to tighten up around 50 shots. I then shot 3 10 shot groups with the last being the best. NOW these 3 10 shot groups same 5 pumps same pellet BUT now at 20 yards. Went from 12 moa to 6 moa. quarter sized groups at 25 yards is the norm for these pellets and with some careful pumping and pellet sorting you can get down to about a nickel sized group at 25 yards.

All shots shot off hand, if you toss out that flyer it would be around 4 moa?

 

[mac1911]

im not the best photo taker and I only have a close to 15 year old Kodak easy share but here is the crown/bore of that 59 year old pellet gun. not pretty but I think with some time and pellet selection I can get this little pumpr shooting minute of squirrel out to 50 yards

slightly different angle

 

[TruthTellers]

I filed the stock down in the areas it was contacting the barrel last night. There's just one area on the side of the barrel where the stock feels tight with my .0025" feeler gauge, but it's right where one of the bedding screws goes, so if that's just something to be lived with, I'll live with it.

It's sad because the rest of the rifle looks great and feels solid. It's just the bore that sucks.

Still haven't shot it. Probably will be doing that tomorrow or Tuesday.

 

[Wickedcoolname]

I have a few Marlins with their micro groove rifling and one of the things I love about them is they perform outstandingly with any and all ammo. They don't seem to dislike anything. My Ruger 10/22 however is finicky as hell. It only likes standard velocity ammo and only certain brands.
I never understood the popularity of those 10/22s. It is the least accurate rifle I've ever owned.
My Marlin model 25 MN, .22WMR on the other hand is almost unbelievably accurate. I'm not even going to brag about the groups. No one would believe it if they didn't see them.
My 1955 vintage model 39A is incredible too, but the one that really surprised me is my model 60. I paid $75.00 for that gun from K-Mart back in 1983 and I thought it would be an okay little plinker. But that rifle shoots like a target gun costing 3 times the price.

 

[mac1911]

I have a few Marlins with their micro groove rifling and one of the things I love about them is they perform outstandingly with any and all ammo. They don't seem to dislike anything. My Ruger 10/22 however is finicky as hell. It only likes standard velocity ammo and only certain brands.
I never understood the popularity of those 10/22s. It is the least accurate rifle I've ever owned.
My Marlin model 25 MN, .22WMR on the other hand is almost unbelievably accurate. I'm not even going to brag about the groups. No one would believe it if they didn't see them.
My 1955 vintage model 39A is incredible too, but the one that really surprised me is my model 60. I paid $75.00 for that gun from K-Mart back in 1983 and I thought it would be an okay little plinker. But that rifle shoots like a target gun costing 3 times the price.

10/22s are very sensitive to action screw tightness.
Also I don't think I ever owned a 10/22 that the stock didn't rub and hit all over the place.
I'm a model 60 fan. Everyone I own was sold as a POS jamOmatic from the seller. The 39a at least the older ones where made with much more pride , skill and craftsmanship than today.
For semi auto my most accurate across the board with shorts,longs(i shot the last of my longs 10 years ago) Long Rifle is my remington 552 it will function shorts to longs with out issue.
My most accurate bolt gun is my 513t made in 1942.I bought it from a guy who shot it in Jr rifle in the 70s-80s and logged 50k rounds through it until he was a good enough shot and his dad bought him a Anchutz. God knows what or how many rounds went through this rifle in 70 years.

Keep at it. It's all fun and a learning curve full of rough patches.

I think my Tacsol AR 15 22lr upper might be a contender for accuracy if I ever take the time to test it. It was purpose built to bang 6" steel at 100 yards with a red dot. My 9 year old loves it and often when she does shoot can hit that 6" plate at call.

 

[TruthTellers]

What I'm taking away from the last few posts is that older... MUCH older .22's are great. I don't doubt that, I've eyed older Marlin 60's because I like tube fed .22's, but again, it's the limitations of the .22 LR that I've discovered lately that have driven me away from the cartridge as a serious shooter or anything other than a survival or plinking firearm.

 

[mac1911]

What I'm taking away from the last few posts is that older... MUCH older .22's are great. I don't doubt that, I've eyed older Marlin 60's because I like tube fed .22's, but again, it's the limitations of the .22 LR that I've discovered lately that have driven me away from the cartridge as a serious shooter or anything other than a survival or plinking firearm.

The 22lr can be a serious shooter just not at the limits you set.
Also sometime you really need to know your skill level.
If your ever unsure of your skills or your rifles abilities seek out those with known skills and equipment.
I'm lucky enough to have several great shooters around to talk with and figure stuff out.

Here's a old 22lr accuracy test. Take a quick Google search on the rifle used. Then see what some of this ammo cost.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/22lr-rimfire-ammo-comparison-test/

Shooting well and having gear shoot well also is a little work.

Think like this also the Biathlon targets only need a gun,ammo,shooter capable of 2moa to play well.
Now go buy a biathlon style rifle and .30+ per round match ammo and give it a try.
Perspective, expectations and reality have a harsh way of kicking us around sometimes.

 

[BrianWilson]

it's the limitations of the .22 LR that I've discovered lately that have driven me away from the cartridge as a serious shooter or anything other than a survival or plinking firearm.

CZ 455 Varmint, good glass well mounted, a secure rest and a box of mini mags will change your mind on that.

 

[mac1911]

CZ 455 Varmint, good glass well mounted, a secure rest and a box of mini mags will change your mind on that.

Yes but that goes out side what he thought he could achieve with his current platform and ammo choices.
IIRC he's looking for 1" @ 25 yards which is about 3.8 moa. IMHO 4 moa is what to expect from your average $200 rifle and .05 ammo these days.
He's running over 12moa right now , well before retest after repairs.
Looking forward to the results he gets.

 

[nstassel]

CZ 455 Varmint, good glass well mounted, a secure rest and a box of mini mags will change your mind on that.

5 shot 50 yards with cheap Remington golden bullets from my 455.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[mac1911]

5 shot 50 yards with cheap Remington golden bullets from my 455.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

How big is that yellow sticker.
I say bravo for golden turds on that group.

 

[nstassel]

How big is that yellow sticker.
I say bravo for golden turds on that group.

Pretty sure they're 3/4 inch. The rifle does well with anything.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[mac1911]

Pretty sure they're 3/4 inch. The rifle does well with anything.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Most of them do well. If they had the tactical/trainer in left hand I would have one.

 

[mac1911]

Pretty sure they're 3/4 inch. The rifle does well with anything.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

I say very good for golden turd. Interesting how many groups you can shoot with the turds before you hit that "fall" apart node. I actually don't mind the Goldens through the bolt guns to bad

 

[TruthTellers]

Went shooting today to test the Marlin with the "lapped" barrel. Swabbed the bore last night and looked at the bore and it looked exactly the same. I'm a machinist, I know that lapping can't clean up the chatter in the bore, so I'm probably going to call Marlin again and give them an ultimatum: either put a new barrel on this gun or give me a refund.

I shot with the irons today at 25 yards, using the same setup I did last time. I didn't have time to buy sandbags, but I am going to be buying a Caldwell Matrix rest in the next week or two and I'm going to try again after I get it. Also, I'm going to put the scope back on the Marlin and see if shooting with it will help me.

Idk what it is, but I'm just able to shoot the Mossberg better. It could be that the front sight on the Marlin is so far away and just too small and hard to see and I can't get a good picture, so I figure a scope at 25 yards won't hurt.

I started shooting at 15 yards and the Marlin seemed to be doing really well, but it seemed that the more I shot it, the bigger the groups were getting even after letting the barrel cool. I'm thinking it's possible the microgroove's may be so shallow that they foul quickly and degrade accuracy after 50 rounds or so.

Here are some pics. I shot these groups at 25 yards. I tried to do 5 shot groups, but I was loosing light at the end of the day and had trouble making out some of the hits, thought I missed, and took a 6th shot at times. I labled the targets with the rifle and the ammo used. The only supersonic or high velocity load I used was the Winchester White Box the rest was either standard velocity or subsonic ammo.

As you can see the Aguila Sniper Sub Sonic shoots really well out of the Mossberg and crap out of the Marlin. That's okay, SSS is a weird round. Winchester White Box shot okay out of the Marlin, but better from the Mossberg. Same with CCI Subsonic.

Again, the Mossberg just keeps beating the Marlin.

Take a look, take a lookers:

 

[mac1911]

Went shooting today to test the Marlin with the "lapped" barrel. Swabbed the bore last night and looked at the bore and it looked exactly the same. I'm a machinist, I know that lapping can't clean up the chatter in the bore, so I'm probably going to call Marlin again and give them an ultimatum: either put a new barrel on this gun or give me a refund.

I shot with the irons today at 25 yards, using the same setup I did last time. I didn't have time to buy sandbags, but I am going to be buying a Caldwell Matrix rest in the next week or two and I'm going to try again after I get it. Also, I'm going to put the scope back on the Marlin and see if shooting with it will help me.

Idk what it is, but I'm just able to shoot the Mossberg better. It could be that the front sight on the Marlin is so far away and just too small and hard to see and I can't get a good picture, so I figure a scope at 25 yards won't hurt.

I started shooting at 15 yards and the Marlin seemed to be doing really well, but it seemed that the more I shot it, the bigger the groups were getting even after letting the barrel cool. I'm thinking it's possible the microgroove's may be so shallow that they foul quickly and degrade accuracy after 50 rounds or so.

Here are some pics. I shot these groups at 25 yards. I tried to do 5 shot groups, but I was loosing light at the end of the day and had trouble making out some of the hits, thought I missed, and took a 6th shot at times. I labled the targets with the rifle and the ammo used. The only supersonic or high velocity load I used was the Winchester White Box the rest was either standard velocity or subsonic ammo.

As you can see the Aguila Sniper Sub Sonic shoots really well out of the Mossberg and crap out of the Marlin. That's okay, SSS is a weird round. Winchester White Box shot okay out of the Marlin, but better from the Mossberg. Same with CCI Subsonic.

Again, the Mossberg just keeps beating the Marlin.

Take a look, take a lookers:

You touch on a point of sights and vision.
If the front sight on the marlin is a greater distance from your eye and smaller or different you may be straining your eyes which leads to fatigue.
If you can not clearly focus on the front sight you can not shoot consistent groups.

Now switching ammo will not help.
Take the best grouping ammo and use that with your scoped rifle test.
Your just not going to get consistency switch ammo around.
As for micro groove barrels.
I have put thousands of rounds through 3 Marlins every summer growing up.
They got a quick clean every thanks giving.
I mean quick. Solvent patch and few brush strokes then a few patches to clean out the gunk.
My Marlins probably have 8-10k rounds through each of them. Most of my 22s are 2moa plinkers with average ammo.

 

[TruthTellers]

I think the front sight is possibly the issue. The Mossberg's front sight is larger and closer to my eyes, so it's easier to see. I noticed I was frequently straining my already bad eye and it was tearing up with the Marlin.

So, using the iron sights isn't the solution anymore. I'm going to pick up a Simmons scope (thanks to all that posted there to bring that scope to my attention) and possible mount it on the Mossberg and see what the results are there. Also, will be using a proper (well, don't know if a plastic Caldwell rest is proper, but it's better than nothing).

However, the one truth that remains is that the chatter in the rifling is still not good. I don't like it, but I'll see if at 25 yards with scope the Marlin improves.

 

[Racenet]

I think the front sight is possibly the issue. The Mossberg's front sight is larger and closer to my eyes, so it's easier to see. I noticed I was frequently straining my already bad eye and it was tearing up with the Marlin.

So, using the iron sights isn't the solution anymore. I'm going to pick up a Simmons scope (thanks to all that posted there to bring that scope to my attention) and possible mount it on the Mossberg and see what the results are there. Also, will be using a proper (well, don't know if a plastic Caldwell rest is proper, but it's better than nothing).

However, the one truth that remains is that the chatter in the rifling is still not good. I don't like it, but I'll see if at 25 yards with scope the Marlin improves.

All in all, I do believe this is the real issue, over your bad, tearing eye. OCD maybe?

 

[22lr]

I'm thinking it's possible the microgroove's may be so shallow that they foul quickly and degrade accuracy after 50 rounds or so.

Can anyone concur with this theory? I bought a Marlin .22 recently and dug into the ballard vs. microgroove debate. What I took away was that microgroove is just as good. I don’t recall seeing anything about them fouling up quickly etc..

 

[mac1911]

Can anyone concur with this theory? I bought a Marlin .22 recently and dug into the ballard vs. microgroove debate. What I took away was that microgroove is just as good. I don’t recall seeing anything about them fouling up quickly etc..

from everything ever explained to me is micro grove all said and done was the quickest way marlin found to make barrels with decent accuracy. When marlin was cutting thier barrels it was about a 40 minute process for to cut the barrel vs the 10 secounds it took to do the micro groove. The plus to the micro groove that they claimed was better seal, less fouling and very good accuracy.
When i shot jr Rilfe we had several club guns... the most accurate where the 40x and Anschutz you as a jr could not touch these rifles until your scores where in the 90% most where surplus 513, M44, H&R and some other mid level match rifles. These guns where shot a lot abused and used. BUT our teach tie and time again would show us its not the rifle but the shooter.
As for eyes. IF you already have vision issues and depending on the correction you have just a few more inches can have a huge impact on your success at shooting well. My scores went down during my "denial" period of needing Rx. My vision is not "bad" but my eyes fatigue quickliy with out the Rx help.

keep plugging at it.

Oh just a not remember even when using a scope you still FOCUS on the cross hairs. The scope is your front sight. this is why repeating your head position behind the scope is important also.

 

[TrashcanDan]

Is this one of the remington made marlins? Or does it have a "jm" stamped on the reciever?

If you bought it new in 2014, you might have one of the remington "remlins". I haven't heard anything good about those, in any of the calibers they offer.

Recently made ones might be better, but when the buy-out/takeover took place, they weren't that well made when they resumed production.

 

[mac1911]

I think the front sight is possibly the issue. The Mossberg's front sight is larger and closer to my eyes, so it's easier to see. I noticed I was frequently straining my already bad eye and it was tearing up with the Marlin.

So, using the iron sights isn't the solution anymore. I'm going to pick up a Simmons scope (thanks to all that posted there to bring that scope to my attention) and possible mount it on the Mossberg and see what the results are there. Also, will be using a proper (well, don't know if a plastic Caldwell rest is proper, but it's better than nothing).

However, the one truth that remains is that the chatter in the rifling is still not good. I don't like it, but I'll see if at 25 yards with scope the Marlin improves.

try to take a picture of the muzzle end like I did in previous posts. Seems yur rilfe is shooting much better than before and better than the 12 moa you said it did with both you and your uncle shooting it.
Let your uncle or a known skilled shooter give it a whirl.

 

[mac1911]

FINALLY A ANSWER FROM MARLIN

ok so it took a few emails but i finally got a answer
Acceptable accuracy the email answer i got

Out standard is 2" or less at 50 yards with Remington Golden Bullet .22 LR.

Thank you,

Marlin Consumer Services

From: 1911
Sent: November 15 2017 08:48:30 AM
To:[email protected]
Subject: Re: [ Ticket: 726727 ] Form submission from: Contact

So 2" at 50 yards is fine by them with golden bullets< which is not known to be very good ammo. So at least they test with what many people end up shooting through these rifles. Inexpensive plinking fodder.
so if your getting sub 2" groups your rifle is fine. IF your doing better than that your ahead of the game.

so just under 4 moa is good to go for marlin XT-22 thats about right

 

[TruthTellers]

Is this one of the remington made marlins? Or does it have a "jm" stamped on the reciever?

If you bought it new in 2014, you might have one of the remington "remlins". I haven't heard anything good about those, in any of the calibers they offer.

Recently made ones might be better, but when the buy-out/takeover took place, they weren't that well made when they resumed production.

I don't see JM marked anywhere and the rifle was made in Mayfield, KY.

- - - Updated - - -

ok so it took a few emails but i finally got a answer
Acceptable accuracy the email answer i got

Out standard is 2" or less at 50 yards with Remington Golden Bullet .22 LR.

Thank you,

Marlin Consumer Services

From: 1911
Sent: November 15 2017 08:48:30 AM
To:[email protected]
Subject: Re: [ Ticket: 726727 ] Form submission from: Contact

So 2" at 50 yards is fine by them with golden bullets< which is not known to be very good ammo. So at least they test with what many people end up shooting through these rifles. Inexpensive plinking fodder.
so if your getting sub 2" groups your rifle is fine. IF your doing better than that your ahead of the game.

so just under 4 moa is good to go for marlin XT-22 thats about right

With scopes or the stock sights? There's no way I could get 2 inches at 50 yards with the stock sights.