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Mark Evnin and a Book titled Shooter

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Nickle, Nov 23, 2005.

  1. Nickle

    Nickle

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  2. MrsWildweasel

    MrsWildweasel Moderator NES Member

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    Is it any good? Review possibly.
     
  3. MrsWildweasel

    MrsWildweasel Moderator NES Member

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    I think I am going to have to get that one for my next read.
     
  4. SgtUSMC8541

    SgtUSMC8541

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  5. FPrice

    FPrice Retired Zoomie NES Life Member NES Member

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    That reference makes for some interesting reading.
     
  6. SgtUSMC8541

    SgtUSMC8541

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    8 of the people makeing comments in the thread are school trained Marine Snipers, and I personaly know three of them. The rest are all BTDT who know what they are talking about.
     
  7. MrsWildweasel

    MrsWildweasel Moderator NES Member

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    Thanks Sarge. I'll definately go over there to read what they have to say.
     
  8. Nickle

    Nickle

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    Well, I thought the book was a good read, and CPL Mark Evnin was a real Marine.

    Do me a favor. I saw that you post over at SOCNet. I have no interest in joining, I'd just end up in pissing contests with the fakes that inevitably will post, since I know a LOT about firearms, and the Army/Army Guard in general. I would like it known that Evnin did in fact exist, and feel free to post the URL that his highschool does. I feel he should be recognized as a real Marine, regardless of what anyone claims.

    Sue, don't buy the book. I can send you down mine. It's still a good read, and I don't think Coughlin is a total poser.

    You know, folks, there's been a lot of claims that Carlos Hatchcock had the highest kill count for Vietnam. Itg ain't so. There's one or two Marines that had higher counts, and the highest was a SGT Waldron, from the Army. Now, Carlos never claimed he was the top one. He was the best, though. That's documented.

    And the highest world wide will shock you. The top 2 are Finn's in the 1940 war against Russia, and #4 is a Russian WOMAN.
     
  9. SgtUSMC8541

    SgtUSMC8541

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    Nickel,

    Ok….You liked the book? Great. Gald you enjoyed it. As for SOCNet, did I invite you to join? No. If you want to, go ahead, if you don’t, then fine. I really could care less. Posers? As I stated, I know many of the members and most before they post get vetted by others. Who are you?
    Ok, so you know A LOT about firearms and the Army/Army Guard in general. This is a book about the Marine Corps, not the Army and is very specific not “general”.

    Now on to Gunny Hathcock (please note the spelling of his name) I have never heard he had the highest kill count in Nam. I do KNOW that he was given credit for the highest in the Marine Corps. Now Chuck Mawhinney has the highest for the Corps in Vietnam. The Army deployed their snipers in a much different fashion than the Marine Corps (as I am sure you know due to your general knowledge of the Army/Army Guard) and have a much higher kill count than the Marines.

    Maybe I am missing something but…. and CPL Mark Evnin? Care to expand on this? No one ever said he wasn't a Marine. Could you post the website where his infor was listed?

    When it comes down to it, some on this site asked a question. I gave them a place to go to get another perspective on it. You decided to become negative in your response. That’s fine. It’s America and you can say what you want. Luckily in America, I don’t have to listen.

    Semper FI and have a great day.
     
  10. Nickle

    Nickle

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    Oh, I'm sure most there at SOCNet are the real deal, as to what they say. I am the real deal as to what I claim my past is. Just a Maintenance guy that got around, and learned a LOT, both self-taught and from others. I probably won't join, but appreciate the link to the site. It isn't lost on me. I just don't want to get dragged into pissing contests against posers and idiots (there's bound to be a few there). I've essentially left a firearms forum for those reasons. I got called out by a couple of morons that figured they're right if they insult people enough (headspacing a military M14). You undoubtedly know the type I'm talking about, since you're an NCO or a prior service NCO. I'm sure you understand my feelings.

    Pardon my misspelling Gunny Hathcock's name. I know better, but it was poor keyboarding. But, that bein g said, I have heard claims before that he had the highest confirmed. That's not right, as both you and I know, and, if Carlos was alive himself, I'm sure he'd be the first to say so. I don't personally know him, but am well studied. And only one Army Sniper had a confirmed over 90, Waldron. I see you're up on that as well. That's a good thing.

    Did you know there is a guy that's been trying to get Hathcock the MOH he deserves, for the incident on the AMTRAC? That guy I do know, it's Dave Brennan, and he did a few years in the Army in the real late 60's, IIRC. The same Dave Brennan that does Precision Shooting magazine, and an ex-Bench Rest shooter.

    Just so you know, I figured there was a fair amount of "fluff" in what Coughlin wrote, and initially I took the book as part fiction, due to a few flaws in his facts (which I won't go into, they're not worth discussion, as you well know). I started figuring out there might be a moderate amount of fact in it, when I saw the reference to CPL Evnin. Mark was a local kid up my way, and was KIA in Apr 2003 in Iraq. I just want the folks over at the other forum to know that the kid was real, and at least a decent kid before he went into the Corps (I have NO knowledge of what he was like in the Corps, good or bad). Now, if Coughlin is making false claims about himself, and it's provable, he needs to be exposed.

    And just so we don't get off on the wrong foot, I was more commenting on what some over at the other site had done (I read your post, you seem to be OK). My opinion is that Coughlin was miffed that they checked up on him. It looked like some info came from his personnel files. IF that's the case, the ones who looked into them are WRONG. I've been in that situation, the intended victim of an unjustified "witch hunt", and it's not fun.

    And also remember, I throw barbs at Marines, get used to it, since in reality, I have a lot of respect for the Corps. I'll also get miffed if you DON'T throw barbs back.
     
  11. SgtUSMC8541

    SgtUSMC8541

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    His book is 293 pages long. Out of all of that there were a few areas that were just plain lies. Now if he were selling this as a fiction book or such then it would be different. He sold it as the truth. That is my issue. As for lies, the best way to tell a lie is to put as much truth in it as possible. I am sure that much of the book is true. Cpl Eynin as an example.

    As for my experience … I have been a Marine for 13 years. (I checked into the IRR 2 months ago) My entire time has been in a Sniper Platoon in the Reserves. During that time I graduated from Reserve Scout Sniper Course, SERE, Sgts Course, 2nd Marine Division Scout Sniper Basic Course (High Shooter), Mountainous Scout Sniper Course, as well as serving in Iraq.

    You want to throw barbs, that’s fine. We can play games; I’ve got more games than Milton Freeken Bradley. [twisted]
     
  12. Nickle

    Nickle

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    When I say barbs, I'm talking good humoured ones, like Derek and I throw at each other, or Cross-X and Dwarven1 do. But, apparently you don't seem to have a sense of humour, so, I'll just leave you alone.

    And, yeah, that isn't the first book I've seen that was more fiction (BS) than fact.

    It appears that there's more to the feelings the Corps has abouthis bookit than I realized.
     
  13. SgtUSMC8541

    SgtUSMC8541

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    Chill killer. It was a JOKE! I know what you ment. barbs - verbal games. I have a sence of humor. How do you think I survived 13 years in the Marines.
     
  14. Nickle

    Nickle

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    Whew, you had me on that one. +1 for you.
     
  15. Lynne

    Lynne

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    Thank heavens...I thought Mother might have to spank both of you. [lol]
    (Down Derek...don't go getting all excited. [lol] )
     
  16. SgtUSMC8541

    SgtUSMC8541

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    See Mom. Us kids can figure things out for ourselves.......sometimes.
     
  17. Nickle

    Nickle

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    Yup, we can, especially us real life NCO's.
     
  18. Lynne

    Lynne

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    You're such good boys. [lol] [wink]
     
  19. TonyD

    TonyD One Shot One Maggie's Drawers

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    Nickle - You need to realize that when someone makes claim to fame in the Corps, the rest of us Marines get real pissy if it's lies. This is really an 'In house issue'.

    Now, I don't know dick about Coughlin but did have several S/S bud's in 2nd MarDiv during the Storm. I will also take Sgt's word as he IS a current Marine S/S, and that what we are talking about, a Marine S/S, not Army.

    As far as Hathcock goes, he was a very personable individual. HE never claimed to have the highest kill, others just started ass-u-ming. I believe he did have more uncomfirmed / probables than anyone else, not sure on that. Carlos did far more for the sniper community than just his kills. His greatest contribution was proving that snipers had a very important role in combat far beyond how their commanders were using them at the time. It is mainly from his service as a sniper that the Corps has the sniper program today. Carlos never went to sniper school because there wasn't one, per se.

    There was a group lobbying to get Carlos the MOH several years ago before he died. It was downgraded and he was awarded the Bronze Star (I believe).

    Another note - Sgt. correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe ANY U.S. military service tracks and records kills from snipers any longer. It was considered un-PC.
     
  20. Nickle

    Nickle

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    Lieing about your record, or claiming unearned/non-awarded decorations gets your seriously ostracized on the Army side of the house. Anyways, anybody that's current or ex-military could pick up some of Coughlin's BS statements in the first part of the book, and some later on. I just wrote it off as exagerating the situation.

    We take an even dimmer view of power abuse as well. Clerks that divulge information out of personnel files are considered lower than the liar, just so you know. There used to be a lot of that in the early 80's. It's been turning up in the Guard some lately, but get's squashed by upper leadership, when it gets exposed.

    As to Hathcock, I'm very aware of a lot surrounding him. Thanks to him, there's a lot of troops Army and Marine that are alive today because he kept the concept of sniping alive after Vietnam. I've read a fair amount about him, and, if you haven't seen John Plaster's interview with him, you should, it's really good.
     
  21. FPrice

    FPrice Retired Zoomie NES Life Member NES Member

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    Lynne,

    You really need to learn who you can things like this to. Some will dread it. Others will line up and pay good money.
     
  22. SgtUSMC8541

    SgtUSMC8541

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    There are no longer "confirmed" kills. Individuals may keep track, and some are recored in awards, but officaly we do not keep records or put into your SRB the number of kills you have.
     
  23. Lynne

    Lynne

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    No doubt thanks to all those brave whiners who've never served, yet fight to line up to cut defense spending. That's just wrong. If someone is good at what they do, they most CERTAINLY deserve recognition for it. I mean - it's the enemy for crying out loud! We're not talking about shooting innocents here. <sigh> Don't get me started...I have little patience for PCism, or people who do their damdest to make the military feel like turds. [twisted] [twisted]
     
  24. Lynne

    Lynne

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    I know that luv - you'll notice I told Derek to behave. [lol] [wink]
     
  25. KMaurer

    KMaurer Moderator NES Member

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    Careful what you promise, Lynne. You know what these guys can be like. [wink]

    Ken
     
  26. MrsWildweasel

    MrsWildweasel Moderator NES Member

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    I will also second what Sgt. said about Socnet. They do make sure you are who you say you are,and most on the sight are BTDT's. There are some of us that are just ex-mil,a few that have never served, and a handful of others. With that being said I like the site because they don't put up with alot of BS like some other sites. I am very repectful it is their playground, and I have a really low post count there.
     
  27. SgtUSMC8541

    SgtUSMC8541

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    Snipers have never really been "in" with the US military or any of the "Anglo" sides. (English, French, etc) It wasn't until after the Vietnam war that we started having sniper schools while a war was not in progress. Before that we trained snipers during the war and then disbanded them once the war was over.
    Shooting people when they have no chance to fight back is un-American and un-John Wayne! :D Not only that, but I do think that some of it has to do with the "well being" of the individual sniper as well as the public. When a regualr Marine/Soldier etc gets in a firefight, there are alot of rounds going down range and it is easier for the individual to not have to claim that they killed someone. "It might have been the other guys bulet that did it etc." By not keep accurate records on this we can never have it thrown in our faces that "During OIF 1,2 and 3, US Marine Snipers killed 934 people (I am sure it is much higher than that)" Snipers are a sergical weapon. An infantry company, bombs, artliery, are much more of an area weapon. Snipers are peronal.

    Hell, we also used to be called STA Platoon, Survallence and Target Accustion because SS or Scout Snipers was not PC. SS and the natzi thing. Now we are back to being SS Plt.

    My .02 and not worth much at that. (sorry, no spell check)
     
  28. Lynne

    Lynne

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    I can understand what you wrote, Sgt., but somehow, I don't think I'd have a hard time pulling the trigger on people who would blow up buldings, killing thousands (including kids), and who would do the same to me if given half a nanosecond of a chance. My .02 - for what that's worth. [lol]

    I know not everyone could be a sniper - it has to be hard on them mentally, and I can empathise with that, but I for one can only say God luv 'em and bless them for doing that job, and they should be recognized for that service.
     
  29. SgtUSMC8541

    SgtUSMC8541

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    I know of one Marine in my Plt that had some issues once he came home, but while there, none of our snipers had any real concerns about doing our job.
     

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