• If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

Marine recounts role in capture of Wal-Mart suspect

Great story. The BG should never see the light of day again. Sadly he will probably be out of jail in a few years.
 
Here's the Globe's take:

Hall was "carrying three pairs of handcuffs, a collapsible baton, a knife, a Taser, and brass knuckles"

Maybe the brass knuckles are illegal in Massachusetts? Other than that, it's all good.

Doncaster had a "Glock .357 Sig"

Obviously, he was only one gossamer thread of sanity away from a committing a bloody public massacre.



Also, this quote: "He really wasn't expecting anyone to have a weapon except for himself." is just tailor-made for public consumption.
 
another reason why I'd rather cary a gun than pepper-spray. While Medford was telling me they wouldn't issue an ALP licence they told me Pepper Spray is all I'd need.

I know it's good stuff, and it's better than nothing....but looks like the stuff didn't do much good for this guy.

I'm really glad it failed for the goblin in this case, but the tabled could be turned.

-Weer'd Beard
 
Good for him! That's a great story. Too bad the outcome in MA would have involved the grandmother being dead in the bathroom and nobody knowing what happened.

I do like how they made a point of saying that after the LEO showed up the Marine unloaded his gun and took out his license. I love it when they portray us gun owners as the responsible and law abiding people that we really are.
 
"Hall was 'carrying three pairs of handcuffs, a collapsible baton, a knife, a Taser, and brass knuckles'

Maybe the brass knuckles are illegal in Massachusetts? Other than that, it's all good."


WRONG! Stun guns, Tasers or otherwise, are illegal for anyone in Mass. other than LEOs to possess.
 
I'm just happy that the perp did stop after a while. If the Marine had to pop off a warning shot most likely they would be sitting in a cell next to each other.

Great story though.
 
You do NOT do "warning shots"! AFAIK that is true in all 50 states now. Many years ago it was normal to do warning shots, that stopped as areas became more populated, lawsuits for damage/injury became more popular too!

In MA NOT EVEN LEOs can possess tasers, except municipal/state police department issued under such onerous restrictions that my LEO sources tell me that NO PD has even qualified to carry them. NOTE: College/hospital, etc. departments do NOT qualify to issue them under the current (new) law.

Brass knuckles are also illegal here. Expanding batons are highly questionable regarding legality for any but recognized police departments. It's not clear that I (as a Constable) can carry one legally, but I haven't expended a lot of time studying the matter either.

The Marine would be in big legal trouble in MA for what he did. Citizens can't draw a gun on anyone that isn't about to kill them and the fact that he ran after the guy after the guy sprayed him and ran away (personal threat was gone) becomes mitigating circumstances AGAINST the good guy!

Scrivener or Darius can add the "legal touch" but I do believe that I am right in saying that this guy would be facing jail time, definite loss of his LTC, etc. for the same actions if it were in MA.
 
LenS said:
The Marine would be in big legal trouble in MA for what he did. Citizens can't draw a gun on anyone that isn't about to kill them and the fact that he ran after the guy after the guy sprayed him and ran away (personal threat was gone) becomes mitigating circumstances AGAINST the good guy!
Click to expand...


The fact that the man sprayed him went beyond threat. Regardless of wether the spray affected the man or not it now became assault. Whether after the man ran away or not, the man was still assaulted.

To defend him once more, even though the mans personal threat was now gone, the other man still threatened the lives of others, giving wat to the chase/civilian arrest.
 
Grifter said:
LenS said:
The Marine would be in big legal trouble in MA for what he did. Citizens can't draw a gun on anyone that isn't about to kill them and the fact that he ran after the guy after the guy sprayed him and ran away (personal threat was gone) becomes mitigating circumstances AGAINST the good guy!
Click to expand...


The fact that the man sprayed him went beyond threat. Regardless of wether the spray affected the man or not it now became assault. Whether after the man ran away or not, the man was still assaulted.

To defend him once more, even though the mans personal threat was now gone, the other man still threatened the lives of others.
Click to expand...

Not that I disagree with you personally, just that MGLs don't allow you to use deadly force once the personal threat is over. Saying that he was threatening others MAY work with a jury, but you also may lose and spend more time in jail than the perp. This is MA that I'm talking about, and our laws aren't like the laws in most civilized states!
 
Sorry my post wasn;t more elaborate. Home sick today and mid-post something came up. :x

It would hold up in court that he was trying to protect the lives of other people. Not to mention he could claim that he thought that the man had just murdered someone and so on. I'm not too clear on how things work in Mass though.

Yes it would be up to the first highest ranking officer on the scene. But if he called more officers in then there might have been a problem. (or if more officers responded to the scene on their own) Most likely a call would have been put out to the shift CO to see what they should do. It also really depends on how nice the shift co is.

Then again I know of some Asshat ADAs and DAs that would have gone after the marine anyways.
 
Moderator said:
Would the arresting officer or orgination have any "pull" as to how much trouble they could/would be in if it were MA?
Click to expand...

Legally no!

On the other hand, officers always have discretion, at least to a point. Problem is that when they make the arrest, this forces them to write a report on exactly what happened. That info would be very damning (in MA) against the Marine.
 
Adam_MA said:
I don't believe any of the laws would be discretionary. They would have to enforce them.
Click to expand...

When I was working for the PD, if I stopped someone for speeding or running a stop sign/red light, I could let them go with just a warning. However, the only people who knew what I did was myself and the perp. Nothing was documented to get the officer or the perp in trouble. [That's why being polite if you are stopped is SO IMPORTANT!]

Once you start involving a lot of other people, including witnesses who will have to testify at a trial, writing reports on the events, etc., you can't sweep the Marine's involvement under the rug.
 
Grifter said:
Sorry my post wasn;t more elaborate. Home sick today and mid-post something came up. :x

It would hold up in court that he was trying to protect the lives of other people. Not to mention he could claim that he thought that the man had just murdered someone and so on. I'm not too clear on how things work in Mass though.

Yes it would be up to the first highest ranking officer on the scene. But if he called more officers in then there might have been a problem. (or if more officers responded to the scene on their own) Most likely a call would have been put out to the shift CO to see what they should do. It also really depends on how nice the shift co is.

Then again I know of some Asshat ADAs and DAs that would have gone after the marine anyways.
Click to expand...

Remember the story, the Marine had NO IDEA that a woman was attacked in a restroom 100s of feet from where he stood, so that defense won't fly. Under MGL, for a by-stander to get involved requires either PRIOR KNOWLEDGE of a felony or WITNESSING the felony prior to interceding . . . I honestly don't recall which is the case. However, NEITHER was the case regarding this Marine's involvement. That is why it is safer (unless you like jail and losing all your money/house/job/etc.) to just call 911 and NOT get personally involved unless you are forced to by being threatened in MA (and you lose your right to plead "self defense" if you do ANYTHING to escalate the situation . . . and running after a retreating person fits that description).

With a sexual assault, ABDW on a number of people, etc. this is going to involve a LOT of officers and brass as a "major event", thus the responding officers won't be able to save the Marine from persecution (in MA)!

If the Marine asked for a jury trial, as long as you don't have a stacked deck of anti-military liberals on the jury, he'd have a good chance of acquittal. More than likely however he'd plead out and that would still haunt him with a record for the rest of his life. Being a hero in MA is NOT a good thing to do for one's career, financial or personal health!
 
I guess it would all just depend on the scenario...

I was in Harvard Square one Saturday night.. Me and my friends came out of this music store. I heard a woman screaming so I ran to see what was up. This guy was beating the hell out of this woman. There were a lot of people just watching it happen. He was yelling at her, calling her names and hitting her repeatedly in the face.

On my full speed run to break it up, I remember being amazed at all the people that were just standing around and not helping her. I got there just in time for the guy to turn and take a swing at me.

I was still on top of him punching him in the face when the cop pulled me off him. He asked the bloody woman what happened and she told him that her husband was drunk and beating her up and that no one that was standing there would help her. The cop turned to me and said "I'm gonna turn my back now to check on this guy you beat the shit out of. Now my back will be turned so I'll trust you will still be standing here for me cuff next and take to the station to get this sorted out right"? With an appreciative wink and a motion of his head I knew he was telling me to get the hell out of there before any other officers came to the scene.

So I guess they can use discretion given the right circumstances...

Adam
 
Adam good for you. I can't stand it when a man hit's a woman. When I was in high school, a kid at the bus stop threw a girl against a wall. I physically got involved right away. The kids dad wanted to press charges on me but the cop who was in charge of the whole incident told him that if he were to do that then the cop would press charges on his son.... I wonder were the kid learned to assault girls? I know it's getting a little OT but if it were me that threw her my dad would kick my ass.
 
I summarized this story to my wife and she pointed out that it might be more about the benefit of being a Marine than about the benefit of owning a gun. Much as she's anti-gun and all that, she might be right. So, just in case, score another one for the Marines!

If I was in that situation and had been maced I wouldn't have been much use with a gun, if I had had a gun.
 
LenS said:
Scrivener or Darius can add the "legal touch" but I do believe that I am right in saying that this guy would be facing jail time, definite loss of his LTC, etc. for the same actions if it were in MA.
Click to expand...
Who knows - the MA prosecutor might even offer the agressor immunity in exchange for testimony against the gun carrier.
 
LenS said:
Not that I disagree with you personally, just that MGLs don't allow you to use deadly force once the personal threat is over. Saying that he was threatening others MAY work with a jury, but you also may lose and spend more time in jail than the perp. This is MA that I'm talking about, and our laws aren't like the laws in most civilized states!
Click to expand...
Even more likley - after a few weeks or months of tough talk about how you're going to defend yourself, you are finally emotionally and financially worn down, and your attorney is explainaing that the additional $25K or so he needs to pursue the case to trial is no assurance there will not be a jail time verdict. You swallow hard, take a no jail time felony plea bargain, and live with the consequences.
 

Similar threads

Mass. Police Destroy Box Of Explosives Found In Forest Off Route 1
2
Replies
43
Views
1K
Varmint
Varmint
6 suspects arrested in connection with over a dozen armed robberies
2
Replies
31
Views
846
timbo
timbo
Police respond to report of shooting at pro-Israeli protest in Newton
34 35 36
Replies
1K
Views
22K
M1911
M1911
Wanted: an image of Siamese mauser Mannlicher in 40-65
Replies
0
Views
74
geneso
G
Why I CCW: Baltimore: A 66-year-old man was stomped on the head while being robbed by a gang of scholars right in front of his daughter
Replies
2
Views
227
Canndo
C
Back
Top Bottom