Marine Held in Shooting - Lawrence, MA

FPrice

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I am sure this is bound to be distressful for the Marines on board here, but hopefully some lessons can be learned from this.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2005/08/15/marine_held_in_shooting/

"Daniel B. Cotnoir, a decorated Marine and military mortician, cracked under post-war stress early Saturday, responding with shotgun fire when someone threw a bottle through a window in his Lawrence home, his attorney said yesterday."

I wonder if post-war stress was the only problem, of if there was more to the story?

One small additional note, what is a "15 year-old girlfriend" doing out at 2:45am, even during summer?
 
The crowd began to flee, Cumba said, as she watched Cotnoir load a shotgun. She said she and her sister scrambled for their car; fragments from Cotnoir's shot hit her just as she was closing the door.

''It scraped the right side of my neck," she said. ''The piece in my leg, doctors said it's about the size of my thumb. They said it has to stay in there."

If it was bird shot, buck shot, or a slug, I doubt any doctor would want the lead to stay in the body. I dont get it.
 
They were partying Frosty. And he had the GALL to tell them to quiet down. So, of course they just HAD to throw the bottle through his window. The guy was also a firearms expert - if he had wanted to kill anyone one of them, he would have.

DO NOT trust the paper's story. Ed and I have been the topic of the Tribune in years past and they RARELY get a story straight.

As I said in the other one I posted - no matter what happens, his license is gone and he'll never get it back. THAT is the saddest part.
 
derek said:
I'm sure he will do some time as well.

In the Lawrence court - that depends on the judge. I forget his name, but he can either be an A hat, or he can be not too bad. He comes from a family that's been in the area (and well respected) for a long time. Not only that, he's a decorated hero. The judge might not throw him in the can, but it's too close to call.
 
DO NOT trust the paper's story.

Oh, I don't Lynne. I use the paper to get a very basic sense of what happened but I rely upon other sources to flesh it out and try to get the real facts.

But let's face it, the papers are going to have a field day with the "facts" that he is a Marine and just returned from combat and George Bush personally gave him PTSD and other "true lies".
 
FPrice said:
But let's face it, the papers are going to have a field day with the "facts" that he is a Marine and just returned from combat and George Bush personally gave him PTSD and other "true lies".

I know. I also know the section of Lawrence where it happened. Those kids were up to no good - period. He's lucky they didn't pull a gun out and shoot at him for yelling at them to quiet down. However, because they weren't white, the paper won't mention anything to do with why they were out there. No one will ask what you did, re: why a 15 y.o. girl was out there at 2:45AM. No one will blame the kids for being unruly or loud, or for throwing the glass bottle through his window. Because if anyone questions the kids, the city "fathers" will start to scream it's because their minorities. <deep breath> My blood pressure is surging...

I'm ashamed to say I was born in Lawrence, a mile from where that happened. I won't drive through Lawrence during the day, let alone at night, if I'm unarmed.
 
It's interesting how some incidental factors tend to color our reactions to something like a shooting. In this case it seems to be the fact that the shooter is a Marine combat veteran. I also take the Eagle's story with a large helping of salt. Let's make the somewhat heroic assumption that at least some parts of it are accurate. First, like gun clubs and their abutters, I'll guess that, while some aspects of its operation and clientele have changed, the club didn't just open up across from their home last week. Second, reading some of his wife's reported comments, the kids coming out of the club seem almost incidental. He and his wife are arguing, with him doing some work on the adult beverages deserving of comment. He then goes into the bedroom, where he's working on another one and pops off the shot quickly enough that his wife expects to find his brains decorating the walls.

My take would be a variation on an old theme. The original has a husband who's involved with some really stressful shit at work, but who's unwilling for one reason or another to unload on his boss. As a "safety valve", he comes home and unloads on a safer target, his wife. In this case, home is where the shit is happening, undoubtedly assisted significantly by his returning to the world. Since he doesn't want to blow up on his wife, he's serendipitously presented with a target of opportunity in the form of some loud kids acting like kids their age often do.

He just lost it. His career and license are both history. Xin loi. If the kids hadn't been partying loudly at O dark hundred, if he hadn't been loaded, or if war wasn't the hell it is, it's quite likely none of this would have ever happened. Then again, if my grandmother had a propeller on her head and another one on her ass, she would have been a helicopter.
___________________________________________________________________________

Full Disclosure: On one side, I'm one of the Marines here who could also claim PTSD if I ever wanted a lame (it was almost 40 years ago) excuse for something. Thankfully I was single when I came home so I wasn't pressured to "talk about it" with somebody who wouldn't have a clue, but was free to just drink quietly, without any distractions from well-meaning people I couldn't easily avoid.
On the flip side, the 15yo girl who was hit is part of my daughter-in-law's family. (Pretty distant, but they're close enough that I've met her uncle and grandparents a few times.) I wasn't getting pinged from Florida for more information long before there was anything in any of the papers or on the news.
___________________________________________________________________________

Ken
 
This particular incident has me more fired up then most things I read in the news. Yeah, I know that he should not have fired out of the window for a dozen different reasons and now he is in a world of hurt, but it just does not seem right. Here's a guy, a recent vet who fought for his country who comes home and becomes a victim in his home. Thats right I consider him a victim. He called the police who did not respond, he asked the crowd to cut it out and they threw a bottle through his window. It is a terrible feeling to be harrassed and challenged in one's own home. This was not some gentle "joshing" as the article stated, we all know what it was like. It was rude and vulgar and nasty and it was wrong. Perhaps I am sympathetic because I once had a similar experience. I did not shoot, I waited for the police, but it was a frightening, impotent feeling to be trapped in my house waiting to see what would happen next. Hindsight is always 20/20 and it is easy for folks to criticize in the clear light of day when everything is calm and rational and say what should have been done. I know that this guy has to be prosecuted, it is the law, but what about the group of dirtbags that precipitated the incident. This whole thing just is not right.
 
From today's Tribune...

Rally halted outside home of shooting suspect
By Jason Tait
Staff Writer


LAWRENCE — A boisterous, patriotic rally was broken up in front of Marine Sgt. Daniel B. Cotnoir's home yesterday, ironically, because of a noise complaint.

About a dozen Marines and veterans gathered at 5 p.m. outside Racicot Funeral Home where Cotnoir lives in an upstairs apartment, blaring patriotic music from an amplifier, waving Marine Corps flags and singing. But police broke it up, saying the rally was too loud and the group had no permit.

The rally occurred in the same spot where Cotnoir fired a 12-gauge shotgun into a rowdy group of nightclub revelers early Saturday morning, injuring two people. Cotnoir has complained to city officials since 1998 about the late-night noise, mischief and fights in his neighborhood.

Cotnoir told police it was the same raucous scene Saturday that triggered him to get his shotgun and fire.

Marine Ben Ivone, 25, of Byfield was an organizer of yesterday's rally. He said it was held to show support for their fellow Marine's family, not to cause a problem.

"What it boils down to is Dan's our friend," said Ivone, who went to boot camp with Cotnoir and served in Iraq for eight months last year. "His family is our family and we're here for him."

The sound system belonged to Cotnoir's friend Dave Goulet, who wore a black Marine Corps shirt to honor his buddy. Goulet was surprised that the rally was stopped because loud music comes from many area nightclubs in that neighborhood.

As for being shooed by police, Ivone said, "We went away peacefully."

Paul Josephson, 47, and Kathy DiFrancesco, 38, live across the street at 257 Broadway. They were enjoying the rally and wanted to join in before police stopped it.

"It was terrible the way it happened," DiFrancesco said. "They should not have shut them down."

Police Sgt. Steve Scheffen said other neighbors called to complain about the Marine rally, so a patrolman told them to turn the music down.

"I doubt we asked them to shut it off," Scheffen said.

Josephson talked about the shooting incident. Someone tossed a mango bottle through the window of Cotnoir's apartment before he fired into the crowd with a shotgun at 2:50 a.m., according to police.

"In reality, he should not shoot a shotgun out the window," Josephson said. "But they should not have thrown a bottle. That's what started it."

Goulet said he will try to get a permit today so they can hold another rally. He said all Marines and veterans are welcome to join them.
 
And....

Chief wants to require police details at late-night clubs

By Shawn Boburg
Staff Writer

LAWRENCE — At least seven years before he turned his shotgun on a noisy, late-night crowd gathered below his bedroom window, Daniel B. Cotnoir complained to city officials and police about the booming car stereos and fights outside a nearby nightclub.

The decibel level only increased, neighbors said.

But yesterday, as the Iraq war veteran sat in jail on attempted murder charges for firing a shotgun toward a crowd outside his home, police Chief John J. Romero said he will propose that the city's largest nightspots be required to hire off-duty officers to prevent early morning loitering and mischievousness. He also wants bars' last call to be rolled back from 2 a.m. to 1 a.m.

The proposal, which needs the City Council's approval, would help address what Romero acknowledged is a growing problem — one that also resulted in the tragic shooting in April that paralyzed basketball star Hector Paniagua outside another nightclub.

"The bottom line is we need to ensure that when clubs let out, the crowds are dispersing," Romero said. "We have seen a trend and we were already taking steps to address it, but there are just too many clubs in the city and we can't be everywhere at the same time."

The city does not require any of the 79 nightclubs, bars and restaurants with alcohol licenses to pay for police details, Romero said. Some choose to, but Punto Final, the nightclub across from Cotnoir's apartment above Racicot Funeral Home, which his family owns, did not have a police detail Saturday.

The nightclub where Paniagua was shot, Jubilee, stopped paying for a police detail two weeks before the incident, Romero said.

Many of the city's bars and nightclubs close at 2 a.m. when they must stop serving alcohol, Romero said. He wants officers monitoring the larger ones Thursday through Saturday nights until an hour after their closing.

The businesses would have to pay detail officers between $37.50 and $42.50 an hour. He said he would discuss the proposal with the city attorney and Mayor Michael J. Sullivan before taking it to city councilors.

Romero also said he will lobby the Licensing Board to roll back to 1 a.m. the time that bars and clubs must stop serving alcohol, citing a spike in the number of late-night disturbances since the city pushed the cut-off hour to 2 a.m. last summer.

That would be welcome news to Bruce Reynolds, the owner of the service station where Cotnoir's two victims were standing after leaving Melinda's Restaurant about 2:30 a.m. Saturday.

Reynolds, 52, who has run the Longhorn service station for 29 years and has known Cotnoir since his childhood, said patrons park illegally at his station and blast their car stereos every weekend.

He said Cotnoir has complained to police at least twice a month as far back as 1998 and often attended Licensing Board meetings.

"I don't condone the use of violence, but I hold the city partly responsible for this," he said. "Hopefully, they will step up to the plate and fix this. I don't know if it takes someone getting killed."

Romero said his department took steps to address the problem before Saturday's shooting. Police patrols were recently increased on Friday and Saturday nights, he said.
 
Re: You knew it was only a matter of time.

derek said:
http://drudgereport.com/flash3.htm

Oh for.... can anyone say "knee jerk" ?? Jumpin G Hossofats...

I FLAMING well hate this <insert MULTIPLE vulgar words here> state!
 
Re: You knew it was only a matter of time.

Lynne said:
derek said:
http://drudgereport.com/flash3.htm

Oh for.... can anyone say "knee jerk" ?? Jumpin G Hossofats...

I FLAMING well hate this <insert MULTIPLE vulgar words here> state!

Come on Lynne, the lawmakers will save us sheeple.
 
Re: You knew it was only a matter of time.

derek said:
Lynne said:
derek said:
http://drudgereport.com/flash3.htm

Oh for.... can anyone say "knee jerk" ?? Jumpin G Hossofats...

I FLAMING well hate this <insert MULTIPLE vulgar words here> state!

Come on Lynne, the lawmakers will save us sheeple.

Yeah...but who's going to save us from them? If you're not a criminal (a real one), a victim, or an illegal alien, no one's gonna stand up for us. Normal people can't survive in this state. I know you weren't serious D, I'm just past joking about it now....especially after seeing the Drudge Report.
 
Ask Tank if you don't believe me, but Vermont did this with ALL returning Task Force Red Leg soldiers. It was low key, done by one of our military staff Pscychologists (or Physchiatrist), and the guy was really good, and very friendly. They were just doing a routine visit with each soldier, plus a questionairre. It sounds far worse than it was. The big thing was to let the soldiers know that they had someone to turn to, IF they had problems in the future, and to see if some already had problems.

Personally, I'm GLAD they did that, since NOW the returning Vets know they have help BEFORE there's a problem.

All that being said, it sounds like Mass is going past what VT did. IF they do that, the Mass Guard's retention WILL go into the crapper.
 
Sounds like the PD is coming under some fire for not doing anything about the constant complaints that this gentleman filed... I can see where he'd snap if there was no action taken.

And I know that it won't fly as a defense here in MA, but... this guy is a MARINE. If he'd "attempted" to murder someone, they'd be pushing up daisies. Hey, it'd work in Georgia, I bet.

Ross
 
That's what kills me with the attempted murder charge they are filing. There was no intent, if he wanted to murder, there would be some filled body bags.
 
Sounds like that may be a part of the defense, pertaining to intent.

I'd certainly hope there would be body bags IF he was attempting to kill someone. Hate to hear that he was a poor shot. I just can't feature that in a Marine to be that bad of a shot.
 
Isn't this the reason when the guys return from Iraq,that they are (insert what ever base here.) there a month or so upon returning,is also to screen? Not only that what good is the screening going to do if they make it mandatory,since PTSD has no time limit for showing up either.
 
derek said:
That's what kills me with the attempted murder charge they are filing. There was no intent, if he wanted to murder, there would be some filled body bags.

I sincerely hope his attourney points that out in court. He was already categorized in one article as an expert shot.
 
Yes, the initial screening/sit down was at Ft Dix, but NOT by their shrink, but, by OUR shrink. He also has spoken to them up here. And followed up WITH the family members, which I thought was a FANTASTIC touch.

And they were there 2 weeks.
 
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