Marblehead Police come through in the clutch

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So last night a kid, or a couple of kids decided to go around looting cars in my neighborhood for spare change, and opened up all 3 of my cars. I walked outside to find a nice notice on my window saying if your car was vandalized please call us. An officer came down and took a look at my cars and I told him that a radio faceplate and bottle of cologne (the gf bought, hence in my car) were missing. The punk had decided to open up the tool box in the bed of my truck, a great place to lift fingerprints from. The officer called the station and they had the faceplate and cologne among the things that he had stolen. I never even had to go as far as seeing if I could even get a replacement faceplate. I'm just waiting to for them to finish processing the evidence then I get it all back.

Needless to say I'm very impressed with the police department. The kid is lucky that he didn't wake me up last night, or he would have been staring at the business end of an AR-15
 
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So last night a kid, or a couple of kids decided to go around looting cars in my neighborhood for spare change, and opened up all 3 of my cars. I walked outside to find a nice notice on my window saying if your car was vandalized please call us. An officer came down and took a look at my cars and I told him that a radio faceplate and bottle of cologne (the gf bought, hence in my car) were missing. The punk had decided to open up the tool box in the bed of my truck, a great place to lift fingerprints from. The officer called the station and they had the faceplate and cologne among the things that he had stolen. I never even had to go as far as seeing if I could even get a replacement faceplate. I'm just waiting to for them to finish processing the evidence then I get it all back.

Needless to say I'm very impressed with the police department. The kid is lucky that he didn't wake me up last night, or he would have been staring at the business end of an AR-15.

You would be so screwed.
 
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Yep you'd have been screwed. Protection of life is one thing, but making the argument that you had to use deadly force for a car stereo is another thing.
 
The police went to the trouble of putting notices on everyone's cars following the incident? That's awesome - kudos to them for going the extra step.
 
I had a similar experience with the NYPD about 30 years ago - someone broke into my car, the people living in the building I was parked in front of tackled the turkey, and when I got back to an empty car, the folks in the building, who were still hanging on their stoop told me to go to the nearest precinct house. Sure enough, there was all the stuff (we were heading down to DC that night, so the car was packed with suitcases) and a VERY unhappy-looking would-be crook.

After I identified all our stuff, the cop asked me if I was sure that the one left-over backpack didn't belong to us. "Nope, not ours!" Good thing I said that, too... that was the perp's, and it was stuffed with drugs. [laugh]

Good job by the neighbors and the NYPD.
 
In the middle of the night breaking and entering is breaking and entering, and on your property. Don't any of of you tell me that if you went outside in the middle of the night because someone was breaking into your stuff that you wouldn't bring something with you. The AR just happens to be the one with a light on it
 
In the middle of the night breaking and entering is breaking and entering, and on your property. Don't any of of you tell me that if you went outside in the middle of the night because someone was breaking into your stuff that you wouldn't bring something with you. The AR just happens to be the one with a light on it

I will tell you, I'm not. I'm not in harms way and neither is the wife. First thing would be to call the cops and observe and above all stay in my house where i have a tactical advantage. I have no idea how many there are or who is waiting for me to open a door to potentially jump me and take my gun.

What do you do if some one else called the cops and there you are creeping around in the dark with an AR in hand while the cops roll up to your house? I'm all set with getting a gun pointed at me and held there till they ID me and then deemed unsuitable to own firearms.
 
What we're telling you that in MASS you would be in jail and spending every penny you ever made defending yourself. Even if it was justified but outside in your car is not. Sorry.

Tommy
 
In the middle of the night breaking and entering is breaking and entering, and on your property. Don't any of of you tell me that if you went outside in the middle of the night because someone was breaking into your stuff that you wouldn't bring something with you. The AR just happens to be the one with a light on it

I've got $1000 deductible on my truck, police response in my neighborhood is less than 3 minutes, and an attorney costs more that $250/hour. Go outside and put myself in harms way because someone is breaking into my truck? No thanks. No way I would go outside. I don't know how many perps there are. They might be armed. Just because I'm the good guy and I've got my big, bad EBR doesn't mean I'm going to win such a confrontation. John Wayne may have won every fight, but I'm not John Wayne and this isn't the movies.

I'll grab my gun, dial 911, and stay inside behind a deadbolted door, on my side of the fatal funnel.
 
I live in a rural town and there's not a chance in hell that the cops will show up in time to catch some cockroach breaking into my car. The first order of business IMO is to stop the cockroach from doing any more damage....that means confronting him. I would not confront a cockroach without a can of roach spray for protection, but he would know that he needs to leave. Once the BG is gone then the police can do whatever it is they do.

I tend to agree that if the BG pulled a piece and there was an incident that you might be at the mercy of the DA......its a sad thing that we need to worry about this sort of crap. Realistically people breaking into cars at night are going to run away instantly...
 
MA law: (and the case in most states)

Deadly force used to defend against death or serious bodily harm = OK

Deadly Force used for any other purpose = FELONY

My vehicle isn't worth becoming Bubba's boyfriend.

Does pointing a gun at someone constitute deadly force? I don't think he's saying he would have needed to shoot him. Bringing your gun along to hold someone committing a crime at bay is not illegal (to the best of my knowledge).

That being said; I'm would never point a gun at someone unless I intended to use it.
 
All this incarceration stuff is such a waste of money. I say let the victims give the kid a good beatdown in the street so he'll remember not to visit it again.
 
Maybe it's just me but I wouldn't want to just sit by while something kept going on. And the part about it being kids was what the police officer told me when they came to write a report. Going outside because you hear someone there is no way of knowing if their armed, legitimate criminals, car thieves, or just hoodlums stealing faceplates and change like it turned out to be. I would hate to find out the hard way that they were armed car robbers and be dead with all my guns locked in the safe in the house
 
Maybe it's just me but I wouldn't want to just sit by while something kept going on.
So you'd rather risk your life, fortune, and freedom over stuff that can be replaced?

And the part about it being kids was what the police officer told me when they came to write a report. Going outside because you hear someone there is no way of knowing if their armed, legitimate criminals, car thieves, or just hoodlums stealing faceplates and change like it turned out to be. I would hate to find out the hard way that they were armed car robbers and be dead with all my guns locked in the safe in the house
So you arm yourself and go outside and confront them. Why do you think that you prevail over the bad guys? Because you are the good guy?

Why risk everything over change, faceplates, or, at worst, the deductible on your car insurance?
 
Why risk everything over change, faceplates, or, at worst, the deductible on your car insurance?

The principle of the matter? Saying "just let the insurance handle it" may be the legal and safer way to go, but it does also show criminals that they can get away with such behavior.

I'm not advocating anything illegal or stupid, but the fact of the matter is if more thieves were shot dead on the spot we wouldn't have many thefts. All hypothetical of course [wink]
 
The principle of the matter? Saying "just let the insurance handle it" may be the legal and safer way to go, but it does also show criminals that they can get away with such behavior.
You're missing the part about dialing 911. In my community, they will be at my house in less than 3 minutes. They're better at capturing criminals than I am, as they've done it many times before. And I pay $7000+ in real estate taxes every year to help pay their salaries.

My life, my fortune, and my freedom are worth more to me than proving to myself that I'm a tough guy.
 
Why risk everything over change, faceplates, or, at worst, the deductible on your car insurance?

You say this like their advertising what their out there doing. A criminal in the night is a criminal in the night, who was committing a crime against my property, on my property. There is no way of knowing that their not coming for the front door next.

Last time I checked the police didn't say "we won't make a big deal out of this because their just kids and didn't mean it". They've been referred to as kids, but I have no idea how old they are and was not told. In this town they'll call you a kid until your 30, so it's all relative
 
You say this like their advertising what their out there doing. A criminal in the night is a criminal in the night, who was committing a crime against my property, on my property. There is no way of knowing that their not coming for the front door next.
You're safer camped inside behind a dead-bolted door, with your gun pointed at a fatal funnel (your front door), then you are going out into the dark, with unadjusted eyes, against an unknown number of perpetrators, who are in unknown locations. Staying inside is tactically a far better approach. They have to come in and get you. They have to announce their entry (by breaking a door or window). And they have a limited number of entrances through which to pass. Ensconced defense is far safer than going outside.

If you go outside with your EBR, you are announcing your approach when you open your door. And while you are pointing your EBR at perp #1 at your car, you don't know if perp #2 is sneaking up behind you with a rock.

You've already dialed 911. The cavalry are on their way. You only need to keep them outside for a few minutes before help arrives. And if you are outside in the dark with an EBR in your hand when the police arrive, things are going to get real tense real fast.

I understand the emotional desire to go out and stop them from taking your stuff, and hold them at gunpoint, or give them a beat down. But your stuff is just that, stuff. Stuff can be replaced. Going out and getting into a confrontation can go south very quickly and very badly. Just because you are the good guy doesn't mean that you would prevail in that situation. The best way to prevail in a confrontation is never to get into one in the first place.

Turn on your outdoor lights, open a window and yell at them. But go outside? No thanks.
 
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shooting someone with a AR for breaking in to your car is caaaaarazy! a gut shot with a pistol is the way to go.... as long as you plant the throw away piece

[wink]

this is why i love baseball bats too. readily availalbe and you can plant that too. sure, both finger prints will be on it, it's all relative because you tried to take the bat from the bad guy and not shoot him.

practice hitting yourself with a bat, like Ed Norton on fight club. [laugh]
 
Unfortunately, M1911 is right, here. You have no legal right to defend property in this state, just yourselves. By leaving your house and approaching them with your rifle, you will be the aggressor. If you shoot them, that will be murder, not self defense. It is ill-advised both legally and tactically, however much that sucks.

If they are coming through the front door, and come after you once they are in there, THEN you can bring your rifle into play.
 
Does pointing a gun at someone constitute deadly force? I don't think he's saying he would have needed to shoot him. Bringing your gun along to hold someone committing a crime at bay is not illegal (to the best of my knowledge).

That being said; I'm would never point a gun at someone unless I intended to use it.

I am not a lawyer, my knowledge comes from reading and listening to those I respect that ARE legal experts.

My understanding of the way the laws are currently interpreted, you can not make any motion with a firearm that could be considered a threat unless the justification to shoot exists. The act of presenting a firearms as a 'warning' even if it is not pointed or even held (ie it's in the holster and you just moved the cover garment) is considered "Assault with a deadly weapon".

Anything done with a gun is the use of "Deadly Force".

You may use Deadly Force in the legal defense of the life of an innocent person.

Understand that in the eyes of the law, "Self Defense" is your defense in court for committing a crime. As far as the police and prosecutors are concerned, a crime was committed and they are going to act on that fact. Wait until you are in a position to legally defend yourself to worry about claiming self defense. Until then, it is in your best interest to remain silent and seek advice of council.

You may in no way cause a situation to escalate to the point where deadly force is employed. You can't shove back, yell back, etc in any means that might aggravate the attacker.

If you have an interest in these topics, I strongly recommend you attend the LFI 1 course in NH.
 
I am not a lawyer, my knowledge comes from reading and listening to those I respect that ARE legal experts.

My understanding of the way the laws are currently interpreted, you can not make any motion with a firearm that could be considered a threat unless the justification to shoot exists. The act of presenting a firearms as a 'warning' even if it is not pointed or even held (ie it's in the holster and you just moved the cover garment) is considered "Assault with a deadly weapon".

Anything done with a gun is the use of "Deadly Force".

You may use Deadly Force in the legal defense of the life of an innocent person.

Understand that in the eyes of the law, "Self Defense" is your defense in court for committing a crime. As far as the police and prosecutors are concerned, a crime was committed and they are going to act on that fact. Wait until you are in a position to legally defend yourself to worry about claiming self defense. Until then, it is in your best interest to remain silent and seek advice of council.

You may in no way cause a situation to escalate to the point where deadly force is employed. You can't shove back, yell back, etc in any means that might aggravate the attacker.

If you have an interest in these topics, I strongly recommend you attend the LFI 1 course in NH.

This is pretty much in line with everything I've heard. Unless you fear for your life, leave the lethal response out of it.

GOAL's Art of Concealed Carry in Massachusetts covers a number of these topics, as well.
 
Needless to say I'm very impressed with the police department. The kid is lucky that he didn't wake me up last night, or he would have been staring at the business end of an AR-15
If you don't already have the phone numbers of several firearms savvy lawyers and a bail bondsman or two programmed into your cell phone, you might want to take care of that before you get your Rambo on.
 
This brings up a few questions... What if you saw these "kids" breaking into your neighbor's house and knowing that your neighbors have kids or are elderly. What do you do and what could you do (after calling 911)? Sorry if I hijacked this thread.
 
This brings up a few questions... What if you saw these "kids" breaking into your neighbor's house and knowing that your neighbors have kids or are elderly. What do you do and what could you do (after calling 911)? Sorry if I hijacked this thread.
You are justified in using deadly force to defend another person if they would be justified in using deadly force to defend themselves.

That said, inserting yourself into a third party dispute is fraught with peril, as you don't necessarily know what is going on. Suppose they are grandkids who forgot their key and you go running in there John Wayne style with your gun in your hand?
 
This brings up a few questions... What if you saw these "kids" breaking into your neighbor's house and knowing that your neighbors have kids or are elderly. What do you do and what could you do (after calling 911)? Sorry if I hijacked this thread.

You'd have to tread very, very, very carefully. If you enter your neighbor's house without explicit permission, you could be considered trespassing. If you got in a tussle, with or without guns, since you went in after the punks, you could be considered the aggressor if you weren't careful. The castle law wouldn't apply (I don't think) because it isn't your property. If you had valid reason to suspect bad things were happening, entered the house and personally witnessed a violent crime occurring, and had a good lawyer, you might be able to get away with applying some level of force to stop the violent crime. Hopefully a lawyer type or someone with more knowledge can back this up, but I'd think you'd be in a huge legal grey area, and possibly fall out of the grey into "nono" land.

Don't even consider taking what I just said as legal advice. Call the cops. Let them handle it.
 
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