Making an SBR on a new lower?

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Hi, I was just led in circles by many different friends about this topic. I’ve heard;

- SBR’s are legal, and taking a firearm and doing that is technically “manufacturing a new firearm.”

- It is legal to SBR a pre-94 AR15, thus turning it into a newly manufactured short barreled AR in MA.

- Therefore, if you take a post ban lower sold by a FFL in MA or an 80% and file the paperwork through the ATF making it an NFA item right of that bat, it is legal.

On the other hand, in Healeys notice, it bans newly manufactured ARs by operating system as well as their receivers. Any thoughts?
 

new guy

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If you can find an FFL to transfer you a new stripped lower you should be in the clear as far as the nonsense Healey pulled out of her ass is concerned. Easier said than done in my experience (leads welcome), at least without having to drive an hour each way and pay full on buttrape prices.

Oh, and one post and no green membership means that everyone will (rightly or wrongly) assume you work for Healey. Just a heads up.
 
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I know of 2 FFLs selling brand new stripped lowers in MA, was just insanely skeptical about legality of it. Thanks for the reply
 

andrew1220

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All I can say is that I know of numerous people building SBRs with "post Healey" lowers without any issues. Years back ATF was requiring dated proof of purchase/registration to make sure it was before 7/20/16 but they have since changed their tune.
 

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Hi, I was just led in circles by many different friends about this topic. I’ve heard;

- SBR’s are legal, and taking a firearm and doing that is technically “manufacturing a new firearm.”

- It is legal to SBR a pre-94 AR15, thus turning it into a newly manufactured short barreled AR in MA.

- Therefore, if you take a post ban lower sold by a FFL in MA or an 80% and file the paperwork through the ATF making it an NFA item right of that bat, it is legal.

On the other hand, in Healeys notice, it bans newly manufactured ARs by operating system as well as their receivers. Any thoughts?
SBR whatever the hell u want regardless of date of receiver and the notice. Done, good luck
 

SgtHal75

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If you can find an FFL to transfer you a new stripped lower you should be in the clear as far as the nonsense Healey pulled out of her ass is concerned. Easier said than done in my experience (leads welcome), at least without having to drive an hour each way and pay full on buttrape prices.

Oh, and one post and no green membership means that everyone will (rightly or wrongly) assume you work for Healey. Just a heads up.
Yup, Hi Maura!
 

SgtHal75

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All I can say is that I know of numerous people building SBRs with "post Healey" lowers without any issues. Years back ATF was requiring dated proof of purchase/registration to make sure it was before 7/20/16 but they have since changed their tune.
The ATF got sick of dimples telling them what to do
 

CrackPot

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Another legal gray area that comes down to whether or not an SBR is a rifle under MA law. Lots of folks say it isn't, other folks don't want to take that chance.
A SBR must comply with the federal AWB for rifles.

People have tried the "well, in MA an SBR is a pistol, so it can't require the federal rifle AWB to apply, ah, stutter, ah..." The idea is that federal and state definitions of rifle, pistol, etc are not aligned so an SBR falls through some loophole. If you apply the federal pistol definition you essentially can never build an SBR, so that makes no sense.

This is actually very simple.

MGL 140 131M prohibits possession of a post 9/13/94 assault weapon.
MGL 140 121 defines assault weapon as "shall have the same meaning as a semiautomatic assault weapon as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994" It has more language, but the key is it is a reference to federal law. It does not include federal law setting up the confusion on definition, but says SEE federal law.

Federal law of 1994 is simple. A SBR is a rifle and subject to the rifle limitations.

Therefore an SBR is MA is subject to the federal limitations of a rifle.

IANAL. Good luck...
 

SgtHal75

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Another legal gray area that comes down to whether or not an SBR is a rifle under MA law. Lots of folks say it isn't, other folks don't want to take that chance.
As a default always follow MA AWB or get a really, really good lawyer, I’m talking Johnny Cochran good cuz MA and cuz guns, lol!!
 

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Lol. I’m sure she keeps people on the payroll asking people online for legal advice.
They read NES. "Goose Rules" was part of a federal lawsuit filing when Michaela Dunn gave a screen shot from a NES advertisement for a 22LR revolver (lol). No reason to think they don't also post...
 

new guy

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So to OP’s question, is there an argument that SBRing a new lower makes the gun any more legal on Planet Healey than if it hadn’t been SBRed?
 

nstassel

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So to OP’s question, is there an argument that SBRing a new lower makes the gun any more legal on Planet Healey than if it hadn’t been SBRed?
If you were charged with an awb violation based on Healey's edict would you rather have a federal document says you can possess it or not? Bear in mind that the application was also sent to your chief of police before it was issued. That's what I thought.
 

new guy

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So if one wanted an AR SBR in .22lr they could acquire a new AR lower, file the Form 1 as a .22lr, acquire the short AR .22lr upper, then eFA10 it in MA as a .22lr AR (with a short barrel)? Does BATFE care if it it hasn't been eFA10ed in MA first?
 

CrackPot

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So if one wanted an AR SBR in .22lr they could acquire a new AR lower, file the Form 1 as a .22lr, acquire the short AR .22lr upper, then eFA10 it in MA as a .22lr AR (with a short barrel)? Does BATFE care if it it hasn't been eFA10ed in MA first?
Why would the ATF care about MA registration?
 

new guy

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They've cared about MA compliance in the past, though they may have since seen the error of their ways. But yeah, point taken.
 

drgrant

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Hi, I was just led in circles by many different friends about this topic. I’ve heard;

- SBR’s are legal, and taking a firearm and doing that is technically “manufacturing a new firearm.”

- It is legal to SBR a pre-94 AR15, thus turning it into a newly manufactured short barreled AR in MA.

- Therefore, if you take a post ban lower sold by a FFL in MA or an 80% and file the paperwork through the ATF making it an NFA item right of that bat, it is legal.

On the other hand, in Healeys notice, it bans newly manufactured ARs by operating system as well as their receivers. Any thoughts?
Nobody other than MA licensed dealers effectively care about Healey's bullshit, and the word is that BATFE no longer does either WRT Form-1s. (someone got them to stop believing it, at least).

As a default always follow MA AWB or get a really, really good lawyer, I’m talking Johnny Cochran good cuz MA and cuz guns, lol!!
IMHO it is still up in the air as to who is to be believed, I'm in the "SBR is exempt" belief-camp myself but this could be proven
invalid given a test case, although if I could bet on it by a year to year basis I would put money down on not seeing a test case anytime soon,
if ever. I'd be able to make some serious cash off it. I place it a notch or two right below a bet that the alarmist "they will use ezpass to generate
speeding tickets" stuff doesn't happen. [rofl]

-Mike
 

drgrant

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They've cared about MA compliance in the past, though they may have since seen the error of their ways. But yeah, point taken.
Not in that context. Also think about the way a Form 1 works "application for making" and how an FA-10 works "reporting something you created, reporting a transfer" You can't (well, at least not with a straight face, except for perhaps the clerks at FS) file an FA-10 on something that doesn't exist yet. Cart/Horse problem. It's like dividing by zero or something
 

drgrant

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They've cared about MA compliance in the past, though they may have since seen the error of their ways. But yeah, point taken.
NFA branch has been "corrected" at least twice in the past decade or so, maybe three times.... I've lost count. EOPS/AG (and their
counsel) still tries to blow smoke up their ass, though.
 
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SgtHal75

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Nobody other than MA licensed dealers effectively care about Healey's bullshit, and the word is that BATFE no longer does either WRT Form-1s. (someone got them to stop believing it, at least).



IMHO it is still up in the air as to who is to be believed, I'm in the "SBR is exempt" belief-camp myself but this could be proven
invalid given a test case, although if I could bet on it by a year to year basis I would put money down on not seeing a test case anytime soon,
if ever. I'd be able to make some serious cash off it. I place it a notch or two right below a bet that the alarmist "they will use ezpass to generate
speeding tickets" stuff doesn't happen. [rofl]

-Mike
Haha! I got my break glass if a firearms attorney is needed funds
 
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